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Best tuck position

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10 Jun 2014 14:03

42x16ss wrote:TT'ing should be ok in that position as long as the course isn't technical but I wouldn't let that bike within a mile of a road race!


Nope, and he did come a cropper a few times with bits falling off his bike and such like. When he broke the 10 record he had problems negotiating a roundabout on a busy dual carriage way.
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11 Jun 2014 21:27

StyrbjornSterki wrote:It's not the handlebars that make this position effective. You also can do "shoulders over bars, hands beneath shoulders, elbows tucked" with Maes bend bars. The point is the torso is horizontal (minimizing frontal area) and the handlebars are somewhat sheltered from the wind by the rider's head and shoulders, so that handlebars and rider do not comprise two separate sources of drag. The problem with it is that much weight on the front wheel on a mass start geometry frame tends to make handling squirrely.
GO's position was a riding one, not really what I was asking about, but your point about creating a single surface is helpful.

The tuck position I see work very well is near that. Shoulders on bars, **** on top tube below the saddle (some frames better than others) as one mostly parallel to ground "blob".
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11 Jul 2014 19:35

These are screen shots from today's stage 7 of the TdF. There was a gradual descent about 11.7 km from the finish, which afforded opportunity to watch the descending technique of the leaders of the peloton.


This is Sylvain Chavanel in a near textbook application of Obree's preying mantis, sans aero bars, except his elbows are too splayed. Chavanel is so far forward in this photo he very nearly has his nipples on the handlebars.

Image


The Maillot Jaune in a slightly less radical interpretation but still distinctly mantis-ish. Nibali's chin is about even with the bars.

Image


In either case, ideally, the crank arms should be horizontal. Chavanel's pedals are slightly out of position because he is riding knock-kneed, attempting to clasp the top tube betwixt his thighs to stabilise his "off the saddle" position.

The only real variations I saw to this technique in any great measure was how far forward the rider moved, and where the hands ended up. To bring the head forward of the handlbars, one's tush almost has to be off the saddle, which shifts some load to the legs. So in addition to the potential instability caused by the radical weight shift, some might also prefer to keep bum on saddle and give the legs a short respite in the descent. And regardless of their head position, everyone's hands tend to come together on the handlebars, at least to no more than shoulder width, when it doesn't unnerve the rider to have his hands so far from the brake levers. And elbows should be tucked.

Watch the video for yourself, paying special attention to the descent just inside 12 km, and decide for yourself.
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11 Jul 2014 22:19

Judging by the title of the thread i assumed you guys were talking about playing "The Crying Game". Oh well.
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21 Jul 2014 17:35

Image

If he could just press out into a handstand, when pro cycling is done with him, there might be a career for him in the circus.
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21 Jul 2014 17:55

StyrbjornSterki wrote:Image

If he could just press out into a handstand, when pro cycling is done with him, there might be a career for him in the circus.


Is that Bauer? I think that's the dumbest descending position I've seen. Why is he so far forward? There must no weight on his back wheel at all. How would he cope with a bump in the road? It scares me.
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22 Jul 2014 02:19

winkybiker wrote:Is that Bauer? I think that's the dumbest descending position I've seen. Why is he so far forward? There must no weight on his back wheel at all. How would he cope with a bump in the road? It scares me.

I guess that when your name is Jack Bauer you can do whatever the **** you want ;)
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22 Jul 2014 02:25

42x16ss wrote:I guess that when your name is Jack Bauer you can do whatever the **** you want ;)


Of course.....but Why?!!
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22 Jul 2014 02:29

Maybe its nothing and this is a silly question, but I'll ask anyways. :)
What is that (yellow circle) in this photo.

Image
Skyline Drive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPjM6rZ4pN0
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Canton Ave Climb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C90ZPlbEfmU
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22 Jul 2014 02:31

winkybiker wrote:Of course.....but Why?!!


I can't speak for Bauer and his exact motives, but I believe the basic idea is too get your weight forward as much as possible to descend quicker.
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22 Jul 2014 08:17

winkybiker wrote:Of course.....but Why?!!

1. To descend faster

2. I was making a bad 24 joke
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22 Jul 2014 08:39

what is the best position for sharper turns/switchbacks?

wht i hav seen mostly is ppl sitting up. i hav also seen the **** high in the air tuck (panzer and sagan).
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01 Aug 2014 00:32

Image
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01 Aug 2014 21:48

Honestly, i can't get down with the chest-on-bars positions, but thats probably my lack of confidence and comfort with it. I find the classic form (with forays into balls on the tube, chin on the bars, rarely) to be the best for me, but more power to the guys putting that much weight over the front wheel successfully.
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02 Aug 2014 12:34

winkybiker wrote:Of course.....but Why?!!


Jspear wrote:Maybe its nothing and this is a silly question, but I'll ask anyways. :)
What is that (yellow circle) in this photo.

Image


I think inside the yellow circle are the latest development in training wheels.

As for why he is so far forward? Obviously, he is trying to get as low as possible - more compact profile allows faster descending. Also, you may notice his hand are on the outside of the bars, on the drops, where they traditionally are while riding. When you are sitting farther back, so that your shoulders are behind your hands, and hands on the drops, the arms tend to act like an airbrake. Which is why riders put hands on the center-top of the bars - to improve airflow. I will guess he has found this position to "feel fast" for him. Yet still have more ability to respond to steering impulses than with his hands tightly together on the tops of the bars. Another factor - with your hands on the tops of the bars, your body is going to be slightly higher overall - and Bauer may not like that position.

In this position, his head is breaking the air, with the hands and arms behind that, inside the airflow envelope.
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02 Aug 2014 12:38

murali wrote:what is the best position for sharper turns/switchbacks?

wht i hav seen mostly is ppl sitting up. i hav also seen the **** high in the air tuck (panzer and sagan).


The traditional ****-on-saddle starting point. When turning, control and response is more important than aero. Any other position and your ability to respond to input from your bicycle is reduced.
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02 Aug 2014 13:22

Descending is about taking the correct line through a turn. All this stuff is silly in comparison. When Cancellara bombs a decent, he only goes deep into the drops and doesn't do any silly stuff and he is an incredible descender. I would say some of this might even be counter productive since you have to hold up your weight so you can't rest and you are giving up control. I don't think Salvadelli even descending with any of these silly positions. A descender only makes up time on people through the turns. A cat 5 rider can bomb a straight downhill as any pro.
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03 Aug 2014 10:26

I don't know what's the best position but here are a few different ones from a video of the Galibier descent 2011:

Andy & Contador:
Image

Evans:
Image

Samuel Sanchez:
Image
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03 Aug 2014 10:31

Interesting, Cadel is descending just like a MTB'er there.
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03 Aug 2014 13:45

el_angliru wrote:I don't know what's the best position but here are a few different ones from a video of the Galibier descent 2011:

Andy & Contador:
Image


The funny thing about that when you watch the video (@2:00) is that while Schleck is tucked into his extreme forward position, Contador simply pedals up to him and passes him. :p
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