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06 Feb 2017 13:24

Agree with others on TSOTL and Se7en. Also agree on The Shining. Nicholson great at times, too over the top at others.

As to subtitles, I find that if you have a good surround system, or sound bar, you can hear the dialog better, or set your system up that way. Now if it's your second language, that's a different story.

The Day of the Jackal, wow. I remember seeing part of that on TV with my mom as a kid and I didn't get it. Some 15 years ago it made another run through the Theater Classic circuit where I was living and my ex and I saw it. About three quarters of the way in she whispered in my ear, "I'm kind of hoping he does it." I felt the same way at that point. Great slow boiler, with a real moral dilemma. Of course you don't want to see someone assassinated, but....

The 70's had a lot of great films like that, some of which are forgotten it seems. Juggernaut, Sorcerer, The Outfit, The Seven-Up's, Friends of Eddy Coyle, etc.
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Re: Re:

06 Feb 2017 14:11

movingtarget wrote:
I think I preferred the old version. To Catch A Thief was entertaining but not classic Hitchcock.


In my opinion, the American version was an improvement, though we have to bear in mind he had a better budget and better technology. But the reconstruction of the "Siege of Sidney Street" spoiled the film, in my opinion. It's a very long scene towards the end after the amazing Royal Albert Hall scene. The latter deserved to be the climatic scene. The film should've ended with that one. In the American version, Hitch made it short after the Royal Albert Hall scene, just the "Que sera, sera" scene. Both films are very good though.

I really liked "To Catch a Thief" for the light pastel colours on the French Riviera and for the actors but otherwise it's not my favourite Hitch film. Vertigo is still my absolute favourite. :)


The Day of the Jackal, is that not the one about the assassination attempt on General De Gaulle? I remember recording it from the BBC in my uni years. At that time I enjoyed it because I was a die-hard Gaullist. :p
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Re: Re:

06 Feb 2017 15:31

Echoes wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
I think I preferred the old version. To Catch A Thief was entertaining but not classic Hitchcock.




The Day of the Jackal, is that not the one about the assassination attempt on General De Gaulle? I remember recording it from the BBC in my uni years. At that time I enjoyed it because I was a die-hard Gaullist. :p
Yes, that's the one.
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Re:

06 Feb 2017 22:08

Alpe d'Huez wrote:As to subtitles, I find that if you have a good surround system, or sound bar, you can hear the dialog better, or set your system up that way. Now if it's your second language, that's a different story.

The 70's had a lot of great films like that, some of which are forgotten it seems. Juggernaut, Sorcerer, The Outfit, The Seven-Up's, Friends of Eddy Coyle, etc.
I see what you're saying, but sometimes the actors mumble their lines, so no matter how much surround system you have you still can't understand what they're saying. (Plus, I may actually have suffered some hearing loss back during my partying days, so that I can admit. :razz: )

I would definitely agree about the 70s, those are my fave movie years. The Godfather I& II, Marathon Man, The Odessa Files, Dogday Afternoon, Midnight Cowboy, All the President's Men, The Deer Hunter, Taxi Driver...

If you care to include 1980 into that decade we also have Ordinary People and Raging Bull.

Don't want to sound like an old fart, but I think they just don't make them like they used to. (Everything seems to be a re-make these days in Hollywood, so, if I want to see something original I'll just turn to foreign or Indie movies.)
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Re: Re:

07 Feb 2017 00:05

Tricycle Rider wrote:I would definitely agree about the 70s, those are my fave movie years. The Godfather I& II, Marathon Man, The Odessa Files, Dog Day Afternoon, Midnight Cowboy, All the President's Men, The Deer Hunter, Taxi Driver...

If you care to include 1980 into that decade we also have Ordinary People and Raging Bull.

I would agree with this, often called the New Hollywood era. After the post war years when studios and producers had much control over how films were to be made, and a lot of old style movies, like musicals for example, started to fall out of favor at the box office, a lot of young filmmakers, many inspired by new technology, cultural advancement, and some European filmmakers (like Truffaut), out came some of the best directors ever, and the screenwriters at the time were up to the task. We were rewarded with some of the best cinema ever. The films you listed, and many more, of course. Apocalypse Now, Network, The Exorcist, Deliverance, The Sting, Days of Heaven, Bonnie & Clyde, Chinatown, etc.

You can blame profit perhaps, but after first Jaws (which was well written, and did have a great performance from Robert Shaw) then Star Wars, Hollywood jumped into pop pulp, and after first Friedkin's Sorcerer bombed at the box office, and then Heaven's Gate bombed even larger, New Hollywood was all but dead.

For what it's worth, I'm a big fan of Sorcerer, and Heaven's Gate. I think both have their flaws, but the 3+ hour version of HG is a cinematic masterpiece in my opinion.

Even worse than the 90's though, Cinema today is really hitting hard times, and peculiar enough, so much of what comes out of the big studios is controlled by executives more than writers and directors. Look at all the sequels, prequels, etc. and so many studio films have a plethora of producers attached to the credits.
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Re: Re:

07 Feb 2017 07:29

Echoes wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
I think I preferred the old version. To Catch A Thief was entertaining but not classic Hitchcock.


In my opinion, the American version was an improvement, though we have to bear in mind he had a better budget and better technology. But the reconstruction of the "Siege of Sidney Street" spoiled the film, in my opinion. It's a very long scene towards the end after the amazing Royal Albert Hall scene. The latter deserved to be the climatic scene. The film should've ended with that one. In the American version, Hitch made it short after the Royal Albert Hall scene, just the "Que sera, sera" scene. Both films are very good though.

I really liked "To Catch a Thief" for the light pastel colours on the French Riviera and for the actors but otherwise it's not my favourite Hitch film. Vertigo is still my absolute favourite. :)


The Day of the Jackal, is that not the one about the assassination attempt on General De Gaulle? I remember recording it from the BBC in my uni years. At that time I enjoyed it because I was a die-hard Gaullist. :p


No doubt Vertigo was great but I also liked Rope, Shadow of A Doubt, Notorious, Sabotage,The Birds, Psycho which has to have one of the greatest soundtracks of all time and a wonderfully twitchy performance by Anthony Perkins with some sly humour as well. They were my favourite Hitchcock movies. I think Rear Window was a bit overrated.
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Re: Re:

07 Feb 2017 07:36

Alpe d'Huez wrote:
Tricycle Rider wrote:I would definitely agree about the 70s, those are my fave movie years. The Godfather I& II, Marathon Man, The Odessa Files, Dog Day Afternoon, Midnight Cowboy, All the President's Men, The Deer Hunter, Taxi Driver...

If you care to include 1980 into that decade we also have Ordinary People and Raging Bull.

I would agree with this, often called the New Hollywood era. After the post war years when studios and producers had much control over how films were to be made, and a lot of old style movies, like musicals for example, started to fall out of favor at the box office, a lot of young filmmakers, many inspired by new technology, cultural advancement, and some European filmmakers (like Truffaut), out came some of the best directors ever, and the screenwriters at the time were up to the task. We were rewarded with some of the best cinema ever. The films you listed, and many more, of course. Apocalypse Now, Network, The Exorcist, Deliverance, The Sting, Days of Heaven, Bonnie & Clyde, Chinatown, etc.

You can blame profit perhaps, but after first Jaws (which was well written, and did have a great performance from Robert Shaw) then Star Wars, Hollywood jumped into pop pulp, and after first Friedkin's Sorcerer bombed at the box office, and then Heaven's Gate bombed even larger, New Hollywood was all but dead.

For what it's worth, I'm a big fan of Sorcerer, and Heaven's Gate. I think both have their flaws, but the 3+ hour version of HG is a cinematic masterpiece in my opinion.

Even worse than the 90's though, Cinema today is really hitting hard times, and peculiar enough, so much of what comes out of the big studios is controlled by executives more than writers and directors. Look at all the sequels, prequels, etc. and so many studio films have a plethora of producers attached to the credits.


Cimino made some great movies but I didn't care for Heaven's Gate. They released a cut version which bombed and even the director's cut put me to sleep. I can understand why the director's cut never made it to the cinema but each to their own. I am underwhelmed by most director's cuts and it just confirms that sometimes the producers do know what they are doing. Even the directors cut of Apocalypse Now was a dog and added nothing of value to the original. Two of the best director's cuts I thought, were Betty Blue and Blade Runner.
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Re: Re:

07 Feb 2017 08:23

movingtarget wrote:
...and Blade Runner.
Did somebody just mention BLADE RUNNER?

Love that flick!
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Re: Re:

08 Feb 2017 21:23

kingjr wrote:The Day of the Jackal, is that not the one about the assassination attempt on General De Gaulle? I remember recording it from the BBC in my uni years. At that time I enjoyed it because I was a die-hard Gaullist. :p
Yes, that's the one.[/quote]

Thank you, I asked because I seem to remember there were several versions of it.
movingtarget wrote:]
No doubt Vertigo was great but I also liked Rope, Shadow of A Doubt, Notorious, Sabotage,The Birds, Psycho which has to have one of the greatest soundtracks of all time and a wonderfully twitchy performance by Anthony Perkins with some sly humour as well. They were my favourite Hitchcock movies. I think Rear Window was a bit overrated.


For sure, one could name numerous brilliant Hitchcock films. He was so prolific. The reason why Vertigo stands out for me is that the four or five times I saw it always made me cry at the same moment while I thought I never cried watching a film. So I had to humbly admit that Hitch trapped me. I could talk a lot about it but I don't want to play spoiler for those who haven't seen it. Just it's a great work about necrophobia and the need to care for the living before caring for the dead ones. Magnificent film.

I'm afraid I'm not a great fan of Psycho but as always with Hitch, even with films I didn't like best, there are interesting parts, here the dramatic irony about the motive to the crime, it was a foul crime and not a crime about money. Besides I remember a great scene with Janet Leigh and a cop, the police being one of Hitch's phobias.

I'm also among those who rate Rear Window, very high. Perhaps because of Grace Kelly but it was a good reflection on the topic of voyeurism. Technically it was interesting to see Jeffries' flat as focal point (Hitch discussed it with Truffaut, I think) and I also read William Irish's short story and thought the film - for once - was an improvement to the book (but it was just a short story of course).

Lately I gladly explored some of Hitch's first films, of his silent film period and perhaps those were the most interesting ones he's ever directed. Of course, they weren't much of entertainment films, they were more profound than that. The first film he's ever completed "The Pleasure Garden" is about easy money and working overseas in colonial plantations. That latter theme is also present in "The Manxman". Also Hitch's very first thriller "The Lodger" is a real success. Probably the film that made me love silent films.

Then among his sound films I also like The Skin Game and Young & Innocent from his English period and The Saboteur and I Confess from his American period other than those you mentioned. I Confess is great because set in Quebec City and it deals with the Catholic secret of Confession and the duty to keep one's word even if one's life is depending on it. Unfortunately the distributor and the local Quebec Church revised much of the original script.
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Re: Re:

10 Feb 2017 13:27

Echoes wrote:
kingjr wrote:The Day of the Jackal, is that not the one about the assassination attempt on General De Gaulle? I remember recording it from the BBC in my uni years. At that time I enjoyed it because I was a die-hard Gaullist. :p
Yes, that's the one.


Thank you, I asked because I seem to remember there were several versions of it.
movingtarget wrote:]
No doubt Vertigo was great but I also liked Rope, Shadow of A Doubt, Notorious, Sabotage,The Birds, Psycho which has to have one of the greatest soundtracks of all time and a wonderfully twitchy performance by Anthony Perkins with some sly humour as well. They were my favourite Hitchcock movies. I think Rear Window was a bit overrated.


For sure, one could name numerous brilliant Hitchcock films. He was so prolific. The reason why Vertigo stands out for me is that the four or five times I saw it always made me cry at the same moment while I thought I never cried watching a film. So I had to humbly admit that Hitch trapped me. I could talk a lot about it but I don't want to play spoiler for those who haven't seen it. Just it's a great work about necrophobia and the need to care for the living before caring for the dead ones. Magnificent film.

I'm afraid I'm not a great fan of Psycho but as always with Hitch, even with films I didn't like best, there are interesting parts, here the dramatic irony about the motive to the crime, it was a foul crime and not a crime about money. Besides I remember a great scene with Janet Leigh and a cop, the police being one of Hitch's phobias.

I'm also among those who rate Rear Window, very high. Perhaps because of Grace Kelly but it was a good reflection on the topic of voyeurism. Technically it was interesting to see Jeffries' flat as focal point (Hitch discussed it with Truffaut, I think) and I also read William Irish's short story and thought the film - for once - was an improvement to the book (but it was just a short story of course).

Lately I gladly explored some of Hitch's first films, of his silent film period and perhaps those were the most interesting ones he's ever directed. Of course, they weren't much of entertainment films, they were more profound than that. The first film he's ever completed "The Pleasure Garden" is about easy money and working overseas in colonial plantations. That latter theme is also present in "The Manxman". Also Hitch's very first thriller "The Lodger" is a real success. Probably the film that made me love silent films.

Then among his sound films I also like The Skin Game and Young & Innocent from his English period and The Saboteur and I Confess from his American period other than those you mentioned. I Confess is great because set in Quebec City and it deals with the Catholic secret of Confession and the duty to keep one's word even if one's life is depending on it. Unfortunately the distributor and the local Quebec Church revised much of the original script.[/quote]

You are right about I Confess, I forgot about that one with a good performance by Montgomery Clift. Also I thought Frenzy was a bit underrated and it also had some of the dark humor of Psycho. For such a prolific director he made a lot of good films. North By Northwest had a some great visuals.
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10 Feb 2017 14:10

I couldn't resist commenting on Hitchcock. It was a goal once to see all of his movies, but the earliest works, not just the silents, but some of the early talkies as well, didn't connect with me, even Rebecca, which I found disappointing (Oscar for Best Picture), but I likely saw the bulk of his work.

I agree with most of everyone else. I think Vertigo remains my favorite. I recall when I first saw it, in a theater as a teenager (not original release, I'm not that old!) and liking only about half of it, I thought Stewart's obsession got too over the top, and it seemed melodramatic. I saw it again about 20 years later, having forgotten most of it, and came away extremely impressed. I thought the film was hypnotic, captivating, and whatever impression I had seeing it at 18 or so, was non-existent, which says more about me, than the film.

North by Northwest remains another favorite. I love the way it moves, and yes, the visuals.

I however am a fan of Rear Window. Not just because of Grace Kelly, but the way it's virtually one set, one location, and the camera really tells the story so well, as you and Stewart piece together the puzzle.

I saw Psycho in a large theater about three years ago, and felt the same as before, the first half is as good as any filmmaking Hitch ever did (and thus any filmmaking ever, really). The second half is hit and miss.

I agree on Notorious, and Shadow of a Doubt. they both are often overlooked. Sabateur is another favorite. As is Lifeboat (this one again, basically one location).

The first half of Lady Vanishes is great, the ending a little too dated, and happy.

Too many more good ones to list, obviously. Spellbound, Dial M for Murder, The Wrong Man, Rope, etc.

The Man Who Knew Too Much, both have real strengths, and a few weaknesses. Strangely, the remake seems more dated today to me.

The films after Hitch's split with the great Bernard Herrmann are hit and miss to me. Torn Curtain and Topaz were almost not Hitchcock films.

What did I miss?!
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10 Feb 2017 15:02

Denial.
But that's quite a list.
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10 Feb 2017 15:03

My personal favourite is Frenzy, mostly due to Barry Fosters great performance.
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Re:

10 Feb 2017 21:31

kingjr wrote:My personal favourite is Frenzy, mostly due to Barry Fosters great performance.


I liked it but many hated it. Some critics thought it was a tacky film at the time although it's a bit hard to make a film about a serial killer without it being unpleasant. When the Michael Powell film Peeping Tom was released just before Psycho it was killed by the critics even though it was a great film. The critics, the morals police and media were not ready for such a film, the point of view shots by the killer who was actually filming the murders were very controversial. The film was banned and Hitchcock believed that criticism carried over onto Psycho which was probably true. Neither film received many good reviews at the time but at least Psycho was allowed to run in cinemas while Peeping Tom got shelved quickly but was celebrated on it's re-release but not for many years.
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Re:

10 Feb 2017 21:39

Alpe d'Huez wrote:I couldn't resist commenting on Hitchcock. It was a goal once to see all of his movies, but the earliest works, not just the silents, but some of the early talkies as well, didn't connect with me, even Rebecca, which I found disappointing (Oscar for Best Picture), but I likely saw the bulk of his work.

I agree with most of everyone else. I think Vertigo remains my favorite. I recall when I first saw it, in a theater as a teenager (not original release, I'm not that old!) and liking only about half of it, I thought Stewart's obsession got too over the top, and it seemed melodramatic. I saw it again about 20 years later, having forgotten most of it, and came away extremely impressed. I thought the film was hypnotic, captivating, and whatever impression I had seeing it at 18 or so, was non-existent, which says more about me, than the film.

North by Northwest remains another favorite. I love the way it moves, and yes, the visuals.

I however am a fan of Rear Window. Not just because of Grace Kelly, but the way it's virtually one set, one location, and the camera really tells the story so well, as you and Stewart piece together the puzzle.

I saw Psycho in a large theater about three years ago, and felt the same as before, the first half is as good as any filmmaking Hitch ever did (and thus any filmmaking ever, really). The second half is hit and miss.

I agree on Notorious, and Shadow of a Doubt. they both are often overlooked. Sabateur is another favorite. As is Lifeboat (this one again, basically one location).

The first half of Lady Vanishes is great, the ending a little too dated, and happy.

Too many more good ones to list, obviously. Spellbound, Dial M for Murder, The Wrong Man, Rope, etc.

The Man Who Knew Too Much, both have real strengths, and a few weaknesses. Strangely, the remake seems more dated today to me.

The films after Hitch's split with the great Bernard Herrmann are hit and miss to me. Torn Curtain and Topaz were almost not Hitchcock films.

What did I miss?!


Hitchcock's last film Family Plot did not seem very Hitchock like either but I think he was ill while making it. More like a made for TV movie. The cast was quite good but the only good sequence was probably the car scene on the mountain, entertaining enough but not classic Hitchcock by a long shot. I forgot about Lifeboat, another good one.
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Re: Movie Thread

11 Feb 2017 13:02

Alpe, if Hitch's early talkies didn't connect with you, I'd really recommend you The Lodger (if you haven't yet watched it). Several years ago, I rented a box of two Hitch DVD's with his early works, actually his early talkies, including Rich & Strange (I think called East of Shanghai in the US), Murder, Number 17 and Foreign Correspondent and I came to the same conclusion as you (Rich & Strange was based on a great idea, the story of a couple who got rich by winning at the lottery and who went on a cruise which became a nightmere as though they were doomed for their easy money). Then I rented a DVD of the 1934 version of The Man Who Knew Too Much and on it was The Lodger. I wasn't really enthusiastic because I had bad feelings towards silent films after watching Metropolis but surprisingly I really enjoyed it better than the main film of the DVD. I would love to talk about the content of it but I fear spoiling it too much. Only I may refer to the amazing glass ceiling scene, through which ceiling you could see Ivor Novello walking around. It was an idea of Hitch's wife Alma Reville.

You could really consider The Lodger as Hitchcock's first thriller, even the only thriller of his silent film period. I'm not really sure he made another one before The Man Who Knew Too Much. At that time he was rather busy with social dramas.

About Rebecca which doesn't really fit with Hitch's filmography, the way I see it is that it was a commissioned film or a producer film in a way. Selznick wanted to make sure that Hitch could make a country house kind of drama which was pretty popular at that time (I think): William Wyler's Wuthering Heights or Fritz Lang's Secret Behind the Door are those I have in mind. So it was sort of Hitch's passport for Hollywood. His last film of the English period Jamaica Inn also was such kind of film and is the one that convinced Selznick to make him cross the Ocean. I didn't like any of the two.

I'm not a great fan of Frenzy either. Perhaps because it's in his post prime period but then again there are interesting aspect to it. Claude Chabrol argued that it was a film in which Hitch gave a lot more importance to supporting characters than he did in his American period while he did it a lot in his old English period (actually Frenzy was a come back to Britain, if I'm not mistaken, the production was British). I remember for example the cop's wife and their frequent feuds when they had dinner. In Young & Innocent supporting characters also have strong personalities. Also in Frenzy you had a really well done long back tracking shot down the stairs as if to suggest that nothing could save the future victim, she's really isolated with the rapist/murderer.

North by Northwest sure had great visuals too. I liked it very much but it seemed at that time like Hitch needed to renew his art. It's another film based on the fatal accident (like The Man Who Knew Too Much) and the McGuffin (like The Thirty-Nine Steps), the elements that had made the typical Hitchcockian thriller for 25 years. I think he didn't make such kinds of thriller ever after. That's why I think Alpe is right to claim Torn Curtain is rather un-Hitchcock. It's an ordinary spy film. However the fatal accident in North by Northwest as imagined by Ernest Lehman was probably the best ever but it took years for Lehman to make up that script, I think. A character that does not exist invented by an intelligence agency to fool the enemies, that's an amazing idea. Also I'm really fond of that maize field scene or what comes just before. You can see Cary Grant stepping out of the bus in no man's land. 360° around him, nothing happens and that lasts for 6' or so. Hitch especially asked Lehman to come up with such a scene, I think. Such scenes would later be very typical of Sergio Leone's spaghetti western. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a influence. :)

Lifeboat is one I'm yet to watch and would really love to. I read it was made entirely on a boat and that Hitch still managed a cameo (a photograph of him on a newspaper). Technically wise it was a feat of strength, a bit like Rope's long take approach. Haven't seen Family Plot either. There shouldn't be too many of them left. Haven't seen Juno & the Paycock nor Stage Fright (at least not that I remember).

One that you missed his Strangers on a Train. First I've seen at my English class at school but since I also had to read Patricia Highsmith's novel, the film puzzled me because it was so different from the novel. By the way, did you know that the original script was again very different to the final one? Hitch and his scriptwriters had imagined a homoerotic relationship between Bruno Anthony (called Charlie Bruno in the novel) and Guy Haines but it was not acceptable as per the codes of the time in Hollywood.

However Maurizio Lucidi took that script back to make La vittima designata in 1971 starring French actor Pierre Clementi as the hippie sexually ambiguous Count encouraging an advertising agent into a cross murder. Tomas Milian is playing the advertising agent. He got famous with the roles of peones and revolutionaries in the Italian Zapata films. La vittima designata is a giallo film, a very popular genre in the early seventies in Italy, definitely one of the best films of the genre.

By the way, we cannot talk about Hitch without mentioning Mel Brooks tribute High Anxiety. In there he made a lot of references to Hitch's films, including the ceiling glass scene from The Lodger (it's quite something to have seen that film in the seventies before the DVD and Internet era) but also emulated the Hitchcock style very well with a very dynamic camera.

What strikes me is that Michel Hazanavicius twice emulated Mel Brooks. With The Artist - poor film I heard it say, really a Frenchman willing to imitate the Americans - he revived silent films like Mel Brooks did in the seventies with Silent Movie and in OSS 117 : Rio ne répond plus he made lots of references to Hitchcock's film a bit like in High Anxiety ...
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14 Feb 2017 13:31

Downhill Racer (1969) - This is a blast from the past for those of you who skied or followed skiing back in the 60s and 70s, it's funny too see what was considered the most modern ski equipment, clothing, and waxing methods back then. (I'm sure a hundred years from now people will be laughing at our current methods.)

I love this movie (have seen it about half a dozen times now), for a sports movie it's actually pretty quiet. Love the scenery of the Alps and old world Europe, and the old cars... the interior decorating, hairstyles, music, and fashion were a bit ghastly, though. (Never dropped acid, but would think some of the inspirations came from having gone on trips.) Still, would highly recommend.

Redford's character makes me think of Bill Johnson and Bode Miller, btw., they, of course, came years later.
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Re: Re:

14 Feb 2017 14:49

Tricycle Rider wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
...and Blade Runner.
Did somebody just mention BLADE RUNNER?

Love that flick!


Best sci-fi movie ever..next, 'Day the Earth Stood Still'..
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Re: Re:

14 Feb 2017 15:19

Bustedknuckle wrote:
Best sci-fi movie ever..next, 'Day the Earth Stood Still'..
Can't remember if I've seen The Day the Earth Stood Still (age, memory, and having seen too many movies in the past are failing me), I might want to give it a whirl.

Have you seen Quintet with Paul Newman? One film critic's review totally cracked me up... he said Quintet was Altman's nadir. lol!

Still love the flick, though, think I'll rent it again.
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Re: Re:

17 Feb 2017 03:08

Bustedknuckle wrote:
Tricycle Rider wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
...and Blade Runner.
Did somebody just mention BLADE RUNNER?

Love that flick!


Best sci-fi movie ever..next, 'Day the Earth Stood Still'..


Great movie. Klaatu Nikto Berada ! The remake was a dog with Keanu. Keanu even sounds like a breed of dog !
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