Log in:  

Register

National Football League

Grab a short black and come join in the non-cycling discussion. Favourite books, movies, holiday destinations, other sports - chat about it all in the cafe.

Moderators: Eshnar, Irondan, King Boonen, Red Rick, Pricey_sky

17 Feb 2019 06:00

I watched the Memphis/Arizona AAF game. Pretty scratchy, and plenty of dropped balls. Hackenberger looks no better........but the game moves quicker than the NFL re ad breaks and it went down to the wire. Entertaining enough if you had nothing better to watch. Singletary coaching Memphis.
movingtarget
Veteran
 
Posts: 9,696
Joined: 05 Aug 2009 08:54

Re:

17 Feb 2019 06:07

movingtarget wrote:I watched the Memphis/Arizona AAF game. Pretty scratchy, and plenty of dropped balls. Hackenberger looks no better........but the game moves quicker than the NFL re ad breaks and it went down to the wire. Entertaining enough if you had nothing better to watch. Singletary coaching Memphis.



Just watched it as well. It's entertaining enough and more than some things I've seen recently.
User avatar Koronin
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,662
Joined: 14 Oct 2017 01:42
Location: North Carolina, USA

18 Feb 2019 14:17

Watched some AAF this weekend for the first time.

A little higher standard than most college ball, but not near the NFL level.

Certainly I'll put it on again if I am not doing anything else (and can wrestle the remote from the kids)
User avatar Catwhoorg
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,004
Joined: 24 Aug 2011 11:00
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: National Football League

19 Feb 2019 01:34

First of the key dates starts tomorrow.
NFL Key Dates Overview:
February 26 thru March 4: 2018 NFL Combine
March 13: 2019 NFL agency officially starts at 4:00 PM ET
Mid-April: 2019 NFL Schedule Release
April 25-27: 2019 NFL Draft
Mid-July: Training camp begins

2019 NFL Offseason Schedule:
February 19: First day for clubs to designate Franchise or Transition Players.
February 26 - March 4: NFL Scouting Combine, Lucas Oil Stadium, Indianapolis, IN.

March 5: Prior to 4:00 p.m., NY time, deadline for clubs to designate Franchise or Transition Players.
March 11-13: Clubs are permitted to contact, and enter into contract negotiations with, the certified agents of players who will become Unrestricted Free Agents upon the expiration of their 2018 player contracts at 4:00 p.m., NY time, on March 13. [AKA the “legal tampering” window.]
March 13:
-- Prior to 4:00 p.m., NY time, clubs must exercise options for 2019 on all players who have option clauses in their 2018 contracts.
-- Prior to 4:00 p.m., NY time, clubs must submit qualifying offers to their Restricted Free Agents with expiring contracts to retain a Right of First Refusal/Compensation.
-- Prior to 4:00 p.m., NY time, clubs must submit a minimum salary tender to retain exclusive negotiating rights to their players with expiring 2018 contracts who have fewer than three accrued seasons of free agency credit.
-- Top 51 Rule begins. All clubs must be under the 2019 Salary Cap prior to 4:00 p.m., NY time.
-- All 2018 player contracts will expire at 4:00 p.m., NY time.
-- The 2019 league year and free agency period begin at 4:00 p.m., NY time. The first day of the 2019 league year will end at 11:59:59 p.m., NY time, on March 13. Clubs will receive a personnel notice that will include all transactions submitted to the league office during the period between 4:00 p.m., NY time, and 11:59:59 p.m., NY time, on March 13.
-- Trading period for 2019 begins at 4:00 p.m., NY time, after expiration of all 2018 contracts.
March 24-27: Annual League Meeting, Phoenix, AZ.

April 1: Clubs that hired a new HC after the end of the 2018 regular season may begin offseason workout programs.
April 15: Clubs with returning head coaches may begin offseason workout programs.
April 19: Deadline for Restricted Free Agents to sign offer sheets.
April 25-27: 2019 NFL Draft, Nashville, TN.
User avatar on3m@n@rmy
Veteran
 
Posts: 5,025
Joined: 17 Jun 2010 12:25
Location: PNW

Re: National Football League

19 Feb 2019 02:12

2019 TEAM NEEDS PER DRAFTTEK:
On a scale of 1-9:
1 = a dire need (highest priority positional need)
9 = a position the team is set at.
(note: numbers 7 & 8 do not exist on the scale)
M = team has multiple needs (more than 1 player at given position). For example, the Ravens need a featured WR (WRF), the first of which has a #3 priority, and the second also has a #3 priority. Whereas the Patriots first WRF has a #3 priority, but the second WRF is a lesser #6 priority.

It's hard to find all the "needs codes" ATM on their website. But here is the gist of some of the column headings:
RBF - running back featured (e.g. a Zeke Elliot or Todd Gurley type)
RBC - running back complimentary (e.g. a Rams CJ Anderson type)
WRF - featured WR
WRS - slot, or secondary, WR
DL#T - where # is gap number 1, 3, or 5, and T = Technique

DraftTek simplified a few things this year:
Edge - DE (they used to separate DE's by scheme (e.g. 3-4 or 4-3 defense).
ILB, OLB - they used to separate inside/outside LBs by scheme (3-4 or 4-3 defense) as they used to for DE's.
I guess they decided KISS is easier/better. Anyways, here U go:

Image

Image
User avatar on3m@n@rmy
Veteran
 
Posts: 5,025
Joined: 17 Jun 2010 12:25
Location: PNW

19 Feb 2019 20:08

As much as I like Amendola in Miami, I hope he goes back to New England.
User avatar SHAD0W93
Member
 
Posts: 883
Joined: 13 Aug 2011 03:50

Re: National Football League

19 Feb 2019 21:18

User avatar on3m@n@rmy
Veteran
 
Posts: 5,025
Joined: 17 Jun 2010 12:25
Location: PNW

Re: National Football League

20 Feb 2019 13:42


That number is baffling to me. $250m to make payroll? When players entire annual salary is roughly $80k per year? The math doesn't add up. The entire combined salary of all AAF staff, players, coaches, more, can't be over about $50m per week. I'm not sure what other ancillary costs there are, but they can't be $200m, that seems impossible. Reading between the lines, my gut tells me that Tom Dundon, who owns the Hurricanes (NHL team) put up the money as an investment into the league, as they also named him the new chairman of the league. Yes, the league was probably at a financial bind at this point, but no way was it $250m deep, that just doesn't add up.

This begs the question, how long will that $250m last? Five weeks? To season's end?

Recall when the AAF was first announced, my initial concern was finances. I will have to find my old post, but I essentially said what killed other leagues, the XFL, WFL, even USFL (though the WFL and USFL were not league owned) was a lack of cash to last the long haul. The only way one of these minor league football teams is going to last is if they are prepared to come out of season one with a big loss-leader, tens of millions of dollars in the red - the inability to do this, and adversity to risk, is exactly what lead to a near panic run and killed the XFL. But this "long run" mentality must continue. The league must accept loss leaders perhaps in seasons 2, and 3 as well, and they must be both dynamic and aggressive in order to stem that tide and swing it. If they can do that, they can likely stick around a while, AFL style perhaps.

I'm very curious what happens next year IF the AAF survives, and the XFL (more flush with money...probably) returns. The two leagues could in theory merge, or one swallow the other in 2021 or so. Then there's the Freedom League, which seems even smaller than the AAF, but a similar model.

What may ultimately be needed is the dust to settle from these leagues, and then the NFL to make an investment in the league, somewhat financially, but really to "own" the league, promote it, let it piggyback on the NFL in a sense.
User avatar Alpe d'Huez
Veteran
 
Posts: 10,302
Joined: 11 Mar 2009 03:51
Location: New England

Re: National Football League

20 Feb 2019 18:41

Alpe d'Huez wrote:

That number is baffling to me. $250m to make payroll? When players entire annual salary is roughly $80k per year? The math doesn't add up. The entire combined salary of all AAF staff, players, coaches, more, can't be over about $50m per week. I'm not sure what other ancillary costs there are, but they can't be $200m, that seems impossible. Reading between the lines, my gut tells me that Tom Dundon, who owns the Hurricanes (NHL team) put up the money as an investment into the league, as they also named him the new chairman of the league. Yes, the league was probably at a financial bind at this point, but no way was it $250m deep, that just doesn't add up.

This begs the question, how long will that $250m last? Five weeks? To season's end?

Recall when the AAF was first announced, my initial concern was finances. I will have to find my old post, but I essentially said what killed other leagues, the XFL, WFL, even USFL (though the WFL and USFL were not league owned) was a lack of cash to last the long haul. The only way one of these minor league football teams is going to last is if they are prepared to come out of season one with a big loss-leader, tens of millions of dollars in the red - the inability to do this, and adversity to risk, is exactly what lead to a near panic run and killed the XFL. But this "long run" mentality must continue. The league must accept loss leaders perhaps in seasons 2, and 3 as well, and they must be both dynamic and aggressive in order to stem that tide and swing it. If they can do that, they can likely stick around a while, AFL style perhaps.

I'm very curious what happens next year IF the AAF survives, and the XFL (more flush with money...probably) returns. The two leagues could in theory merge, or one swallow the other in 2021 or so. Then there's the Freedom League, which seems even smaller than the AAF, but a similar model.

What may ultimately be needed is the dust to settle from these leagues, and then the NFL to make an investment in the league, somewhat financially, but really to "own" the league, promote it, let it piggyback on the NFL in a sense.

I could certainly see it being like baseball where NFL teams have 'farm' teams in the AAF.
jmdirt
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,398
Joined: 06 Dec 2013 17:33

22 Feb 2019 21:36

There's cheating, then there's, well, uh...

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/22/us/robert-kraft-solicitation/index.html

I imagine Jonathan will take full control of the team, if not full ownership of the team, and likely the Kraft Group. This was likely to happen anyway, and my guess is this only accellerates it. I think Robert long ago stepped away from the Heinz-Kraft board, but I could be wrong. I think the controlling interest there is 3G Capital anyway, a giant Brazillian-US conglomerate. Not that football releated, but I point it out only to say I can't imagine this affecting the actual team from the league that much, other than it being shameful, embarassing. Of course he also hasn't been convicted of anything yet either.
User avatar Alpe d'Huez
Veteran
 
Posts: 10,302
Joined: 11 Mar 2009 03:51
Location: New England

Re:

22 Feb 2019 23:42

Alpe d'Huez wrote:There's cheating, then there's, well, uh...

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/22/us/robert-kraft-solicitation/index.html

I imagine Jonathan will take full control of the team, if not full ownership of the team, and likely the Kraft Group. This was likely to happen anyway, and my guess is this only accellerates it. I think Robert long ago stepped away from the Heinz-Kraft board, but I could be wrong. I think the controlling interest there is 3G Capital anyway, a giant Brazillian-US conglomerate. Not that football releated, but I point it out only to say I can't imagine this affecting the actual team from the league that much, other than it being shameful, embarassing. Of course he also hasn't been convicted of anything yet either.



Well the NFL could force Robert to give up anything he still owns in the team after this, which could be just a transfer to the Kraft Group if that hasn't already happened and likely Jonathan needing to take full control, if it hadn't already happened before as well. If that has already happened the league likely won't do anything.
User avatar Koronin
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,662
Joined: 14 Oct 2017 01:42
Location: North Carolina, USA

23 Feb 2019 00:39

Patriots trolls just received a boost. Can't see him doing community service somehow but it could be much worse.
movingtarget
Veteran
 
Posts: 9,696
Joined: 05 Aug 2009 08:54

Re:

23 Feb 2019 01:30

Alpe d'Huez wrote:There's cheating, then there's, well, uh...

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/22/us/robert-kraft-solicitation/index.html

I imagine Jonathan will take full control of the team, if not full ownership of the team, and likely the Kraft Group. This was likely to happen anyway, and my guess is this only accellerates it. I think Robert long ago stepped away from the Heinz-Kraft board, but I could be wrong. I think the controlling interest there is 3G Capital anyway, a giant Brazillian-US conglomerate. Not that football releated, but I point it out only to say I can't imagine this affecting the actual team from the league that much, other than it being shameful, embarassing. Of course he also hasn't been convicted of anything yet either.
Why did they leak Kraft's name if he supposedly isn't the biggest name caught up in this? This could get interesting...maybe some politicians involved?

https://ntknetwork.com/report-kraft-not-the-biggest-name-caught-in-prostitution-sting/
Nomad
Member
 
Posts: 414
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 01:39

23 Feb 2019 04:01

I have to be honest, I really don't care if two adults have sexual relations even if there is money involved.

Sure this doesn't look good for the league because so many people are religious freaks on the surface, you know like catholic priests, but if they have any balls, they just say: "not our problem".
jmdirt
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,398
Joined: 06 Dec 2013 17:33

Re: Re:

23 Feb 2019 08:15

Merckx index wrote:
Nomad wrote:
a 43 yd FG is chip shot at the NFL level.


Not really. During the regular season, kickers made about 75% of FGA from 40-49 yards.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/kicking/seasontype/2

Parkey made 9/12 from this distance during the RS, and 3/3 from a shorter distance during the game. The odds were in his favor, but the probability of missing was certainly high enough that there is no basis for saying he choked. He missed by about as little as you can, not like Vanderjagt for Indy when he missed by about 20-30 feet in that playoff game against Pittsburgh in 2005. That might have been an example of a kicker choking.

There's hundreds of HS kids that could have easily made that kick!.


There are tens of thousands of HS kids who can make three point shots, too. That doesn't make Curry trash when he misses.

Parker should be cut from the team immediately!


I'm surprised you aren't ranting against Gostkowski. His missed extra point--which pretty much is a chip shot--might have cost his team the AFC championship in 2016, and another missed XP could have cost his team the SB the following year.
Too funny!...Parkey is CUT! (not "immediately" but cut nonetheless):

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bears-reportedly-to-cut-ties-with-kicker-cody-parkey-in-move-that-will-cost-them-millions/

"Less than one year after signing Cody Parkey, the Bears have apparently had enough of him. 

According to NFL.com, the team has decided to cut ties with Parkey in a move that will become official on March 13. Parkey was arguably the biggest free-agent signing among kickers in 2018, but he definitely didn't pan out for the Bears. 

Not only did Parkey miss a total of 10 kicks (seven field goals, three extra points) during a disastrous regular season, but he finished with the third worst field goal percentage in the NFL (23 of 30, 76.7 percent). Of course, the missed kick that fans in Chicago will remember the most is the one that took place during the Bears' 16-15 wild-card loss against the Eagles."
Nomad
Member
 
Posts: 414
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 01:39

Re:

23 Feb 2019 16:22

jmdirt wrote:I have to be honest, I really don't care if two adults have sexual relations even if there is money involved.

This wasn't just an issue of two people doing it, and one paying the other. This goes way deeper than that, to sex trafficking. Please read this article:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/02/22/robert-kraft-charged-soliciting-prostitution-orchids-asia-patriots-trafficking-column/2955489002/

I imagine Parker will get picked up by someone. Kickers aren't a dime a dozen. Still, have not only that one kick, but many more "doinks" over the season, I'm not shocked they cut him either.

As to the AAF, I'm not following it close enough, mostly watching highlights and reading small blurbs, but here's what I can gather about this week.

AZ@SC - A rematch of week 1, where AZ put up 38 points. This is in Salt Lake though, and despite being 0-2, the Stallions haven't been playing bad.
MEM@ORL - Orlando is the best team in the league right now. and Memphis has shown little offense.
BIR@ATL - The Iron have a really stout defense, and Atlanta has under-performed. Iron QB Luis Perez has apparently gotten lots of calls already from NFL teams. If he has another good game, he could be a rising star for the league to promote, and fill seats.
SA@SD - Rematch of close game in week 1 in SA, won by SA. Mike Martz (SD) coach said they should have won it.

More on Luis Perez, and his unlikely story:

https://www.cbssports.com/aaf/news/aaf-2019-how-luis-perez-gave-up-on-professional-bowling-and-youtubed-his-way-to-learning-quarterback/

Finally, someone asked me where to watch AAF games. Most people might have them on their local CBS channel, but some don't. Oddly enough, some games are on the NFL Network. Some games are on Bleacher Report Live (B-R Live). There's some sort of connection between BR and Turner Broadcasting, some some of those game are apparently on TNT, but not in my area, so you should check. The games are also up to YouTube about an hour or so after they end. Finally, if you don't want to, or can't sit through an entire game, there are full game highlights on YouTube, just like NFL games. The best plays of the game compressed into about 10 minutes, and usually online an hour or so after the game ends. Having said that, AAF games move pretty quickly, which is one of the best parts of the league if you ask me.
User avatar Alpe d'Huez
Veteran
 
Posts: 10,302
Joined: 11 Mar 2009 03:51
Location: New England

Re: Re:

23 Feb 2019 16:45

Alpe d'Huez wrote:
jmdirt wrote:I have to be honest, I really don't care if two adults have sexual relations even if there is money involved.

This wasn't just an issue of two people doing it, and one paying the other. This goes way deeper than that, to sex trafficking. Please read this article:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/02/22/robert-kraft-charged-soliciting-prostitution-orchids-asia-patriots-trafficking-column/2955489002/

I imagine Parker will get picked up by someone. Kickers aren't a dime a dozen. Still, have not only that one kick, but many more "doinks" over the season, I'm not shocked they cut him either.

As to the AAF, I'm not following it close enough, mostly watching highlights and reading small blurbs, but here's what I can gather about this week.

AZ@SC - A rematch of week 1, where AZ put up 38 points. This is in Salt Lake though, and despite being 0-2, the Stallions haven't been playing bad.
MEM@ORL - Orlando is the best team in the league right now. and Memphis has shown little offense.
BIR@ATL - The Iron have a really stout defense, and Atlanta has under-performed. Iron QB Luis Perez has apparently gotten lots of calls already from NFL teams. If he has another good game, he could be a rising star for the league to promote, and fill seats.
SA@SD - Rematch of close game in week 1 in SA, won by SA. Mike Martz (SD) coach said they should have won it.

More on Luis Perez, and his unlikely story:

https://www.cbssports.com/aaf/news/aaf-2019-how-luis-perez-gave-up-on-professional-bowling-and-youtubed-his-way-to-learning-quarterback/

I'll stand by my statement, but add the underlined: 'I have to be honest, I really don't care if two adults have consensual sexual relations even if there is money involved.'

The nightly news story that I watched did not indicate sex trafficking. Unless Craft was involved in the trafficking part though, he is just soliciting a prostitute (his charge). If that misdemeanor is the only charge he gets, the NFL can't justify doing anything.

My wife said that she saw a headline that the (EDIT: EX Prez) Prez of CitiBank is also being charged.

I wonder why these billionaires go to crappy little spas to get their rocks off? Can't they do better than that? Maybe they like slummin' it?
jmdirt
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,398
Joined: 06 Dec 2013 17:33

Re: Re:

23 Feb 2019 21:40

jmdirt wrote:I'll stand by my statement, but add the underlined: 'I have to be honest, I really don't care if two adults have consensual sexual relations even if there is money involved.'

Right, and I'm saying this wasn't consensual in all likelihood. So that doesn't even apply here.
My wife said that she saw a headline that the (EDIT: EX Prez) Prez of CitiBank is also being charged.

I wonder why these billionaires go to crappy little spas to get their rocks off? Can't they do better than that? Maybe they like slummin' it?

I imagine many actually do "better than that". Or, they just don't think they'll get caught, as they live lives of privilege already. Kind of diving into politics here, and I don't have the stomach for that. I think the greatest threat to Kraft is that it's an embarrassment and distraction. As I noted before, he had to be close to his way out, with Jonathan taking over, and this may just accelerate that.
User avatar Alpe d'Huez
Veteran
 
Posts: 10,302
Joined: 11 Mar 2009 03:51
Location: New England

Re: Re:

23 Feb 2019 21:51

jmdirt wrote:
Alpe d'Huez wrote:
jmdirt wrote:I have to be honest, I really don't care if two adults have sexual relations even if there is money involved.

This wasn't just an issue of two people doing it, and one paying the other. This goes way deeper than that, to sex trafficking. Please read this article:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/02/22/robert-kraft-charged-soliciting-prostitution-orchids-asia-patriots-trafficking-column/2955489002/

I imagine Parker will get picked up by someone. Kickers aren't a dime a dozen. Still, have not only that one kick, but many more "doinks" over the season, I'm not shocked they cut him either.

As to the AAF, I'm not following it close enough, mostly watching highlights and reading small blurbs, but here's what I can gather about this week.

AZ@SC - A rematch of week 1, where AZ put up 38 points. This is in Salt Lake though, and despite being 0-2, the Stallions haven't been playing bad.
MEM@ORL - Orlando is the best team in the league right now. and Memphis has shown little offense.
BIR@ATL - The Iron have a really stout defense, and Atlanta has under-performed. Iron QB Luis Perez has apparently gotten lots of calls already from NFL teams. If he has another good game, he could be a rising star for the league to promote, and fill seats.
SA@SD - Rematch of close game in week 1 in SA, won by SA. Mike Martz (SD) coach said they should have won it.

More on Luis Perez, and his unlikely story:

https://www.cbssports.com/aaf/news/aaf-2019-how-luis-perez-gave-up-on-professional-bowling-and-youtubed-his-way-to-learning-quarterback/

I'll stand by my statement, but add the underlined: 'I have to be honest, I really don't care if two adults have consensual sexual relations even if there is money involved.'

The nightly news story that I watched did not indicate sex trafficking. Unless Craft was involved in the trafficking part though, he is just soliciting a prostitute (his charge). If that misdemeanor is the only charge he gets, the NFL can't justify doing anything.

My wife said that she saw a headline that the (EDIT: EX Prez) Prez of CitiBank is also being charged.

I wonder why these billionaires go to crappy little spas to get their rocks off? Can't they do better than that? Maybe they like slummin' it?



Here's the issue. If this is sex trafficking, which it sounds like is what is happening in this case. By definition it cannot be consensual.
User avatar Koronin
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,662
Joined: 14 Oct 2017 01:42
Location: North Carolina, USA

Re: Re:

23 Feb 2019 22:03

Koronin wrote:
jmdirt wrote:
Alpe d'Huez wrote:
jmdirt wrote:I have to be honest, I really don't care if two adults have sexual relations even if there is money involved.

This wasn't just an issue of two people doing it, and one paying the other. This goes way deeper than that, to sex trafficking. Please read this article:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/02/22/robert-kraft-charged-soliciting-prostitution-orchids-asia-patriots-trafficking-column/2955489002/

I imagine Parker will get picked up by someone. Kickers aren't a dime a dozen. Still, have not only that one kick, but many more "doinks" over the season, I'm not shocked they cut him either.

As to the AAF, I'm not following it close enough, mostly watching highlights and reading small blurbs, but here's what I can gather about this week.

AZ@SC - A rematch of week 1, where AZ put up 38 points. This is in Salt Lake though, and despite being 0-2, the Stallions haven't been playing bad.
MEM@ORL - Orlando is the best team in the league right now. and Memphis has shown little offense.
BIR@ATL - The Iron have a really stout defense, and Atlanta has under-performed. Iron QB Luis Perez has apparently gotten lots of calls already from NFL teams. If he has another good game, he could be a rising star for the league to promote, and fill seats.
SA@SD - Rematch of close game in week 1 in SA, won by SA. Mike Martz (SD) coach said they should have won it.

More on Luis Perez, and his unlikely story:

https://www.cbssports.com/aaf/news/aaf-2019-how-luis-perez-gave-up-on-professional-bowling-and-youtubed-his-way-to-learning-quarterback/

I'll stand by my statement, but add the underlined: 'I have to be honest, I really don't care if two adults have consensual sexual relations even if there is money involved.'

The nightly news story that I watched did not indicate sex trafficking. Unless Craft was involved in the trafficking part though, he is just soliciting a prostitute (his charge). If that misdemeanor is the only charge he gets, the NFL can't justify doing anything.

My wife said that she saw a headline that the (EDIT: EX Prez) Prez of CitiBank is also being charged.

I wonder why these billionaires go to crappy little spas to get their rocks off? Can't they do better than that? Maybe they like slummin' it?



Here's the issue. If this is sex trafficking, which it sounds like is what is happening in this case. By definition it cannot be consensual.

:rolleyes: Yes, but that wouldn't be my point then. I thought that people were just being holier than thou about him paying for sex, which I don't care about. Like I said though, unless he was involved in the trafficking (knowing about it would be involved IMO), he is just soliciting.

I should also be clear that I'm not defending Kraft because I think that he is a slimeball millionaire just like most of them, but the hypocrites who are slamming him are slimebags too.
jmdirt
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,398
Joined: 06 Dec 2013 17:33

PreviousNext

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: jmdirt, zarnack and 9 guests

Back to top