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The Real Football Thread

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14 Nov 2017 18:56

Ventura is unbelievably dim. The worst c.t in the history of Italian football. Just think about how Italy, man for man, are far better than two years ago when they destroyed Belgium and Spain and came very close to beating Germany. Sweden completely deserved it, no complaints about that. Some complaints about Mateu Lahoz missing about four penalties (two for both sides) and being completely random with what counts as a foul and what doesn't, but I think Swedes will have some of those as well.

I do not know how Ventura thought crossing the ball into the box to defenders who are taller than the strikers was going to get a goal. I am even more confused at how even after 180 minutes he didn't realise this. He also didn't realise that, even after countless games, Immobile and Belotti as a partnership just do not work. In fact, they both play better alone. And Insigne, El Sha and candreva all work better with space. And jorginho is good (in think he knew that but was xenophobic), and even better if you put Verrati next to him. Honestly, the team was set up perfectly for a 4-3-3 and yet Ventura tried a 3-5-2 and a 4-2-4. It's ridiculous. I hope this causes a revolution at the top of Italian football.

But good luck to Sweden in June. You deserved the trip.
Brullnux
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14 Nov 2017 19:10

This, there are enough good players that a good coach could use to built a good team.
User avatar Mayomaniac
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Re:

14 Nov 2017 19:31

Mayomaniac wrote:This, there are enough good players that a good coach could use to built a good team.

Exactly. Even if Ventura had qualified and got to the world cup, ant further than the round of 16 would've been a miracle. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise. I feel sorry for the retirees but hopefully now there is actually a generational team. My ideal team for 2020 (assuming Chiellini retires) has only one player over 30, and everyone else (bar insigne who will be 29) below their theoretical prime. What I've worked out in national teams is that it is the manager and tactics that build 75% of a performance and the players' quality the last 25. That's why Sweden beats Italy and Belgium and Argentina are still very poor. Someone like Ancelotti, Spalletti hell even Allegri or Sarri would be fantastic.
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Re: Re:

14 Nov 2017 20:06

Brullnux wrote:
Mayomaniac wrote:This, there are enough good players that a good coach could use to built a good team.

Exactly. Even if Ventura had qualified and got to the world cup, ant further than the round of 16 would've been a miracle. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise. I feel sorry for the retirees but hopefully now there is actually a generational team. My ideal team for 2020 (assuming Chiellini retires) has only one player over 30, and everyone else (bar insigne who will be 29) below their theoretical prime. What I've worked out in national teams is that it is the manager and tactics that build 75% of a performance and the players' quality the last 25. That's why Sweden beats Italy and Belgium and Argentina are still very poor. Someone like Ancelotti, Spalletti hell even Allegri or Sarri would be fantastic.


Italy needs a complete revolution, starting from the junior teams. Just look at Juventus and Napoli. How many Italians do they have at all, let alone how many of them play regularly? Only Ancelotti, Conte and posiibly Spaletti can bring the team back to where it should be. A World Cup without a four-time world champion is just not the same... :redface: Forza Italia!
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14 Nov 2017 23:35

https://www.thedailybeast.com/fox-sports-bribed-fifa-for-tv-rights-ex-marketer-testifies
Fox Sports Bribed FIFA for TV Rights, Ex-Marketer Testifies

A man who says he worked with the network to pay off soccer officials is now working with Uncle Sam.

Fox Sports paid bribes to soccer officials to retain broadcast rights, a former sports marketing executive testified in Brooklyn federal court Tuesday.

Alejandro Burzaco said that Fox Sports partnered with his firm to pay off officials at the South American Football Confederation, one of FIFA’s six continental sub-groups. Five Spanish-language broadcasters also bribed FIFA officials, Burzaco testified.

Fox Sports used sham contracts to cover up some of the payments, Burzaco alleged, pointing to a 2008 contract for $3.7 million between an ex-Fox Sports official and a company called Somerton Ltd. It was ostensibly payment for Somerton's work in extending Fox's broadcast rights for major South American tournaments.

"T&T is interested in appointed Somerton to negotiate the extension of the television rights currently granted to T&T for Copa Libertadores, Copa Sudamericana and Recopa Sudamericana," the contract reads.

It's not a real contract and no such work took place, Burzaco testified.

A Fox Sports official signed the contract on behalf of T&T. Somerton, a Turks and Caicos company, was owned by Jose Margulies, who served as an intermediary for bribes to FIFA officials and pleaded guilty in 2015.

Burzaco said Fox hoped to use the tournaments to expand its reach in "all of the Americas from Argentina to the U.S.A."


This could mess up Sky/Fox in Europe - merger, TV rights etc

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-14/fox-sports-paid-bribes-for-soccer-rights-fifa-witness-says
The allegations further tarnish Fox’s image just as the media giant tries to persuade U.K. regulators to allow the acquisition of full control of Sky Plc, the satellite-TV provider. The U.K.’s Competition and Markets Authority is looking into issues of corporate culture at Fox, including sexual harassment allegations at Fox News, as part of its review of 11.7 billion-pound ($15.4 billion) bid for the rest of Sky.
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User avatar Robert5091
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Re: The Real Football Thread

15 Nov 2017 11:47

Lots of big teams missing the WC. It's not only italy and netherlands, but also chile in south America and although they weren't favorites anyway the US not qualifying is extremely surprising as well. I'll really miss these teams. I have to say it's quite hard to imagine a wc without italy, although it's reality now.
User avatar Gigs_98
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Re: The Real Football Thread

15 Nov 2017 13:14

Gigs_98 wrote:Lots of big teams missing the WC. It's not only italy and netherlands, but also chile in south America and although they weren't favorites anyway the US not qualifying is extremely surprising as well. I'll really miss these teams. I have to say it's quite hard to imagine a wc without italy, although it's reality now.

Many of these teams don't end up actually offering much at world cups anyway.

Its just pre tournament hype. Italy at the last 2 world cups combined have 1 win. Portugal were pathetic as well as were obviously England.
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Re: Re:

15 Nov 2017 19:03

Ivan_Basso_77 wrote:
Brullnux wrote:
Mayomaniac wrote:This, there are enough good players that a good coach could use to built a good team.

Exactly. Even if Ventura had qualified and got to the world cup, ant further than the round of 16 would've been a miracle. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise. I feel sorry for the retirees but hopefully now there is actually a generational team. My ideal team for 2020 (assuming Chiellini retires) has only one player over 30, and everyone else (bar insigne who will be 29) below their theoretical prime. What I've worked out in national teams is that it is the manager and tactics that build 75% of a performance and the players' quality the last 25. That's why Sweden beats Italy and Belgium and Argentina are still very poor. Someone like Ancelotti, Spalletti hell even Allegri or Sarri would be fantastic.


Italy needs a complete revolution, starting from the junior teams. Just look at Juventus and Napoli. How many Italians do they have at all, let alone how many of them play regularly? Only Ancelotti, Conte and posiibly Spaletti can bring the team back to where it should be. A World Cup without a four-time world champion is just not the same... :redface: Forza Italia!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAZ2ofHK6XU
Brullnux
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Re: The Real Football Thread

15 Nov 2017 19:39

The Hitch wrote:
Gigs_98 wrote:Lots of big teams missing the WC. It's not only italy and netherlands, but also chile in south America and although they weren't favorites anyway the US not qualifying is extremely surprising as well. I'll really miss these teams. I have to say it's quite hard to imagine a wc without italy, although it's reality now.

Many of these teams don't end up actually offering much at world cups anyway.

Its just pre tournament hype. Italy at the last 2 world cups combined have 1 win. Portugal were pathetic as well as were obviously England.

US has qualified out of the group stages in 3 of the last 4 tournaments. Chile has qualified out of the last 2. Are either of those teams realistic threats to make the semis or finals? No. But their inclusion (and other teams like Ghana) improves the group stages. I fear that the group stages in Russia will approach the tedium of the group stages from Euro 2016.
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15 Nov 2017 20:45

It's one of the weakest world cups of recent years. The fifth favourite is a pathetic Argentina side that is being carried by Messi and lost at home to Ecuador and away to Bolivia. Russia (!) is given 40/1 on many betting websites. 10th best. Poland is in Pot 1. I think it might be a flukey Portugal 2016 win. Only Spain, Germany and Brazil looked good in qualifying.

I'm hoping for Iceland and England to be in the same group, and Iran and Saudi Arabia.
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Re:

16 Nov 2017 11:11

Brullnux wrote:It's one of the weakest world cups of recent years. The fifth favourite is a pathetic Argentina side that is being carried by Messi and lost at home to Ecuador and away to Bolivia. Russia (!) is given 40/1 on many betting websites. 10th best. Poland is in Pot 1. I think it might be a flukey Portugal 2016 win. Only Spain, Germany and Brazil looked good in qualifying.

I'm hoping for Iceland and England to be in the same group, and Iran and Saudi Arabia.


Hmmm I think a certain team who were undefeated in their qualification and might line up an attack of Hazard, De Bruyne, Mertens and Lukaku might need a mention in that post. :p

I mean, they've been underperforming consistently last couple of years, but with the quality they have in that team, they ought to be mentioned as one of the favourites in my opinion.
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17 Nov 2017 07:33

"As long as we don't have a good tactical system, we will struggle against teams like Mexico" - Kevin de Bruyne. Going unbeaten in qualifying means very little as the likelihood of you facing another decent team is low. Belgium had the weakest of the second place finishers in Greece. Lukaku is wildly overrated as a player (great finisher though) and while the talent is obviously there (they have some of the best names out of anyone) their problem two years ago was that they play as individuals, not as a team. It seems the same now, so I don't think they can warrant the 'favourites' tag. Definitely strong outsiders, but not favourites.
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17 Nov 2017 10:40

Yeah I haven't watched their games too closely, I was going purely by the individual qualities of their players. With a good coach who manages to get the team to function well, they would be in the Brazil/Spain/Germany tier. But I agree they are in the Argentina/France/Belgium tier now; i.e. teams who have the talent to compete for the win, but are struggling so far to reach their potential.

I guess compared to some of the other big countries Argentina are lacking a bit in every department except attack though and Belgium could really use some better backs. As I said, I didn't really see much of their games, but I imagine things can get a bit congested with Hazard and Mertens as wingers, if you don't have good backs going forward to provide width. With Lukaku doing quite well and Mertens playing as a CF for Napoli very successfully these days, it might be better to play De Bruyne as a RAM so he can also use his excellent cross to create chances for Lukaku, who is definitely dependent on other players creating chances for him, while Mertens could play in a more central role as something of a second striker.
User avatar Maaaaaaaarten
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Re:

17 Nov 2017 11:28

Brullnux wrote:"As long as we don't have a good tactical system, we will struggle against teams like Mexico" - Kevin de Bruyne. Going unbeaten in qualifying means very little as the likelihood of you facing another decent team is low. Belgium had the weakest of the second place finishers in Greece. Lukaku is wildly overrated as a player (great finisher though) and while the talent is obviously there (they have some of the best names out of anyone) their problem two years ago was that they play as individuals, not as a team. It seems the same now, so I don't think they can warrant the 'favourites' tag. Definitely strong outsiders, but not favourites.

Belgium have some sort of luck in that they always draw the weakest group. Not just for this qualifying but also for the last world cup -Algeria, Russia, South Korea - an then US in the last 16. An amalgamation of the 4 teams they faced on the way to the quarter finals would not have made it out of the group stages.
In Euro 2016 they got Italy and of course got crushed by the 1 remotely decent team they have faced in years.
They then got Hungar - pfff, and Wales, and somehow managed to lose to Wales as well
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17 Nov 2017 14:53

Most overhyped team of the previous years. It's incredible how lucky they have been with their draws just because of this dumb FIFA ranking (How do you end up #1 when you've never beaten a top15 country? Wheres the logic in that?). They'll probably walk through the groupstage again and then lose to the first decent team they face. However, in 2016 they lost to Wales...

They don't even appear in the top20 of highest average ELO rating in the 2010s.
They would've never been in pot1 in any of the past three tournaments based on ELO.
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18 Nov 2017 00:32

Belgium are wasting their golden generation with Martinez as a coach. Radja should play every minute. Martinez defense was atrocious after a while at Everton and there are glaring problems now. They will be relying on the genius of a few players to solve the situation. They have players capable of that, but with a proper coach it'd be even better.
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Re: The Real Football Thread

18 Nov 2017 14:15

The problem is that Belgium is playing better than you would normally expect a Belgium team to play, therefore many people don't notice that they still don't use their full potential due to a meh coach.
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18 Nov 2017 14:21

With the players and squad they have they are on paper one of the top 5 nations in the world atm.

Also, fully expected Spurs to beat Arsenal. Now a few more PL games, then the Rome derby and then the Madrid derby and Napoli hosing AC Milan. Great day of football. Great day to be sick and staying at home doing nothing.
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Re:

18 Nov 2017 22:38

jsem94 wrote:With the players and squad they have they are on paper one of the top 5 nations in the world atm.

Also, fully expected Spurs to beat Arsenal. Now a few more PL games, then the Rome derby and then the Madrid derby and Napoli hosing AC Milan. Great day of football. Great day to be sick and staying at home doing nothing.



Well I was hoping Spurs would be the Gunners but alas, they choked in a big game, again. They played quite well against Real recently, but kind of buckled today.

Liverpool is on the rise. I think they are getting their groove back and if their defense continues to do well and even improve, they could go far in both the league and Europe. Of course, they are my team, so I have to be positive and looking forward!!!

Wonder what sort of impact Italy not making the WC will have on that league. I know the top clubs have good international mix, but the Italian players could be affected.
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Yesterday 01:19

Didn't make much of a difference for the club sides today at least. I'd say everyone is equally affected. Napoli beat Milan quite convincingly after all, even though the score sheet said 2-1 by the end. Roma deserved the win against Lazio too. Radja was a monster in the game, as was Kolarov.
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