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Re: NBA / NCAA Basketball

09 Jun 2017 04:21

The Hitch wrote:
BullsFan22 wrote:The Cavs arguably had their best game of the playoffs, certainly one of their best games of the season, and still came up short. Losing a three possession lead in the last couple minutes of the game after playing very well throughout must have sucked the life out of them. I don't see them winning a game now. That was as good an opportunity as they'll have to win a game, and perhaps (and that's a big perhaps) make it into a series, but they couldn't seal the deal. My guess is that the Warriors won't let off now. Finishing 16-0 in the playoffs is big for them, even if it means not getting their trophy at home.

Lebron will be 3-5 (assuming we don't see the greatest comeback in the history of American pro sports) in NBA finals now. The Cavs got spanked by the Spurs in Lebron's first finals in 2007. The Mavs surprised the Cavs in 2011, playing their best ball of the season and Nowitzki dialed in. In 2012 he won his first title, but I remember the refs playing a big role in the conference semis vs the Pacers and the Celtics sort of choking with having a 3-2 lead. The young and really inexperienced Thunder were overwhelmed. In 2013 it was Ray Allen winning 3 in game 6 that saved Lebron's bum from getting burned (that and some poor decisions from Poppovich and his boys). The Heat won game 7 to win the title. In 2014 and 2015 Lebron's teams were beaten quite handily. Last year was probably his most deserved title.


How about 32 points 10 assists and 11 rebounds from Lebron?

I don't agree with the idea that only points scored in the last minute count. A game is 4 quarters and EVERY point counts. If Lebron scores 1 point less in the 1st quarter that would have added up and Ray Allens 3 at the end of the game wouldnt have been enough.

Add all that together and James's tripple double performance won that game more than anyone else. He won the finals mvp and was the best player in the series. He deserved it.

If we are basing James titles on "deserve" btw, you forgot 2015 which even though Cavs lost (4-2 so not THAT handidly) he had one of the the greatest performances in the history of the playoffs, carrying a college basketball team to 2 games (and a 3rd which went to OT)

I'll agree every point counts, so credit also goes to all the scorers throughout a game, not just the guy who shot the game-winner at the buzzer. We like to put the guy who made the buzzer beater on a Pedestal, I'm guessing because it came in a clutch moment when all the marbles were on the line and with all the pressure.

Now as for this NBA Finals series, the point distribution by Lebron is very interesting when sometimes the focus is on the totals (e.g. game 3: 39 pts, 11 reb, 9 assists; in 46 MINUTES). Stellar right? Well, yes, but look at his point distribution by quarter in this Finals series (all 3 games so far):
Qtr - Points --- FG Pct
1st - 39 --- 70%
2nd - 25 --- 71%
3rd - 21 --- 40%
4th - 11 --- 36%
http://nesn.com/2017/06/kevin-durant-has-in-fact-worn-out-lebron-james-and-the-stats-prove-it/

Why? Why wouldn't Lebron demand the ball, or coach Lue put the ball in his hands? Today all the analysts have been saying the Cavs (in particular Lebron and Kyrie) were too tired, or that it looked like they played tired in the final 3 minutes 10 seconds when the Cavs put up a goose egg (0 points). Warriors coach Steve Kerr told his guys down the stretch in game 3 that the Cavs would tire, and fatigue would became an important factor. It is a well know fact the Warriors have more weapons, but it means the starters can get more rest during the game. Minutes played in game 3 for the Warriors: Curry 39, Klay & KD 40 each. For the Cavs: LJ 45, KI 44 minutes.

A contributing factor to those point stats by quarter for Lebron could be he is a great distributor of the ball. So it could be that fatigue is not the only factor for those stats.

So how can the Cavs win game 4? Lebron says they do not have to change up their game any. Some analysts say the Cavs need to post James up and play the old style inside-out game that was prevalent in the days of the Lakers and Celtics. That should help LJ conserve energy instead of executing higher energy runs at the hoop. And it could put some Warriors into foul trouble. Then turn a less fatigued LJ loose at the end of the game if necessary. The same analysts suggest that because if what the Cavs have been doing won't work, why not try something new? And then, how much control of the game does coach Lue really have, and how much blame can he receive for not trying something new. I don't know. These are just some things that have been said.
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Re: NBA / NCAA Basketball

09 Jun 2017 05:26

on3m@n@rmy wrote:
The Hitch wrote:
BullsFan22 wrote:The Cavs arguably had their best game of the playoffs, certainly one of their best games of the season, and still came up short. Losing a three possession lead in the last couple minutes of the game after playing very well throughout must have sucked the life out of them. I don't see them winning a game now. That was as good an opportunity as they'll have to win a game, and perhaps (and that's a big perhaps) make it into a series, but they couldn't seal the deal. My guess is that the Warriors won't let off now. Finishing 16-0 in the playoffs is big for them, even if it means not getting their trophy at home.

Lebron will be 3-5 (assuming we don't see the greatest comeback in the history of American pro sports) in NBA finals now. The Cavs got spanked by the Spurs in Lebron's first finals in 2007. The Mavs surprised the Cavs in 2011, playing their best ball of the season and Nowitzki dialed in. In 2012 he won his first title, but I remember the refs playing a big role in the conference semis vs the Pacers and the Celtics sort of choking with having a 3-2 lead. The young and really inexperienced Thunder were overwhelmed. In 2013 it was Ray Allen winning 3 in game 6 that saved Lebron's bum from getting burned (that and some poor decisions from Poppovich and his boys). The Heat won game 7 to win the title. In 2014 and 2015 Lebron's teams were beaten quite handily. Last year was probably his most deserved title.


How about 32 points 10 assists and 11 rebounds from Lebron?

I don't agree with the idea that only points scored in the last minute count. A game is 4 quarters and EVERY point counts. If Lebron scores 1 point less in the 1st quarter that would have added up and Ray Allens 3 at the end of the game wouldnt have been enough.

Add all that together and James's tripple double performance won that game more than anyone else. He won the finals mvp and was the best player in the series. He deserved it.

If we are basing James titles on "deserve" btw, you forgot 2015 which even though Cavs lost (4-2 so not THAT handidly) he had one of the the greatest performances in the history of the playoffs, carrying a college basketball team to 2 games (and a 3rd which went to OT)

I'll agree every point counts, so credit also goes to all the scorers throughout a game, not just the guy who shot the game-winner at the buzzer. We like to put the guy who made the buzzer beater on a Pedestal, I'm guessing because it came in a clutch moment when all the marbles were on the line and with all the pressure.

Now as for this NBA Finals series, the point distribution by Lebron is very interesting when sometimes the focus is on the totals (e.g. game 3: 39 pts, 11 reb, 9 assists; in 46 MINUTES). Stellar right? Well, yes, but look at his point distribution by quarter in this Finals series (all 3 games so far):
Qtr - Points --- FG Pct
1st - 39 --- 70%
2nd - 25 --- 71%
3rd - 21 --- 40%
4th - 11 --- 36%
http://nesn.com/2017/06/kevin-durant-has-in-fact-worn-out-lebron-james-and-the-stats-prove-it/

Why? Why wouldn't Lebron demand the ball, or coach Lue put the ball in his hands? Today all the analysts have been saying the Cavs (in particular Lebron and Kyrie) were too tired, or that it looked like they played tired in the final 3 minutes 10 seconds when the Cavs put up a goose egg (0 points). Warriors coach Steve Kerr told his guys down the stretch in game 3 that the Cavs would tire, and fatigue would became an important factor. It is a well know fact the Warriors have more weapons, but it means the starters can get more rest during the game. Minutes played in game 3 for the Warriors: Curry 39, Klay & KD 40 each. For the Cavs: LJ 45, KI 44 minutes.

A contributing factor to those point stats by quarter for Lebron could be he is a great distributor of the ball. So it could be that fatigue is not the only factor for those stats.

So how can the Cavs win game 4? Lebron says they do not have to change up their game any. Some analysts say the Cavs need to post James up and play the old style inside-out game that was prevalent in the days of the Lakers and Celtics. That should help LJ conserve energy instead of executing higher energy runs at the hoop. And it could put some Warriors into foul trouble. Then turn a less fatigued LJ loose at the end of the game if necessary. The same analysts suggest that because if what the Cavs have been doing won't work, why not try something new? And then, how much control of the game does coach Lue really have, and how much blame can he receive for not trying something new. I don't know. These are just some things that have been said.

"How can the Cavs win game 4?"

Answer: If Durantula gets hurt or something and can't play. Lol.
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10 Jun 2017 04:28

If you score 49 points in the first quarter, well...

Two things stick out to me: the Cle box looks more like it should (Korver could score a few more if needed), but in the GS box score Curry and Thompson with 14 and 13. Side note, Cle outscored GS in every Q.
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Re:

10 Jun 2017 05:11

jmdirt wrote:If you score 49 points in the first quarter, well...

Two things stick out to me: the Cle box looks more like it should (Korver could score a few more if needed), but in the GS box score Curry and Thompson with 14 and 13. Side note, Cle outscored GS in every Q.


Very good win. I wish Green would go away just irritating to watch. Thompson played much better as well for the Cavs.
movingtarget
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Re: Re:

10 Jun 2017 15:28

movingtarget wrote:
jmdirt wrote:If you score 49 points in the first quarter, well...

Two things stick out to me: the Cle box looks more like it should (Korver could score a few more if needed), but in the GS box score Curry and Thompson with 14 and 13. Side note, Cle outscored GS in every Q.


Very good win. I wish Green would go away just irritating to watch. Thompson played much better as well for the Cavs.

I don't like his style either. Obviously he is a great player, and by all accounts he has a high BB IQ. He is also a dirty player, and he can't control his emotions. Because GS is a really good team, his BS isn't usually a liability, but as other teams close the gap, and/or as GS dismantles, it might be a different story.
jmdirt
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Re: Re:

10 Jun 2017 16:22

jmdirt wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
jmdirt wrote:If you score 49 points in the first quarter, well...

Two things stick out to me: the Cle box looks more like it should (Korver could score a few more if needed), but in the GS box score Curry and Thompson with 14 and 13. Side note, Cle outscored GS in every Q.


Very good win. I wish Green would go away just irritating to watch. Thompson played much better as well for the Cavs.

I don't like his style either. Obviously he is a great player, and by all accounts he has a high BB IQ. He is also a dirty player, and he can't control his emotions. Because GS is a really good team, his BS isn't usually a liability, but as other teams close the gap, and/or as GS dismantles, it might be a different story.

Agree with you both. Dirty style is one thing I don't like about the NBA, even though not everyone plays dirty. Couple of other things I don't like are rule violations that refs do not enforce; palming and traveling are 2 that come to mind that have occurred in this series.

One thing I don't get either is how one team can go from being dominating to dominated? It's almost like someone told GS to lay down in game 4 to let CLE win. $$$. I guess I dont have much trust in the NBA. Nothing against the Cavs.
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Re: Re:

10 Jun 2017 17:02

on3m@n@rmy wrote:
jmdirt wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
jmdirt wrote:If you score 49 points in the first quarter, well...

Two things stick out to me: the Cle box looks more like it should (Korver could score a few more if needed), but in the GS box score Curry and Thompson with 14 and 13. Side note, Cle outscored GS in every Q.


Very good win. I wish Green would go away just irritating to watch. Thompson played much better as well for the Cavs.

I don't like his style either. Obviously he is a great player, and by all accounts he has a high BB IQ. He is also a dirty player, and he can't control his emotions. Because GS is a really good team, his BS isn't usually a liability, but as other teams close the gap, and/or as GS dismantles, it might be a different story.

Agree with you both. Dirty style is one thing I don't like about the NBA, even though not everyone plays dirty. Couple of other things I don't like are rule violations that refs do not enforce; palming and traveling are 2 that come to mind that have occurred in this series.

One thing I don't get either is how one team can go from being dominating to dominated? It's almost like someone told GS to lay down in game 4 to let CLE win. $$$. I guess I dont have much trust in the NBA. Nothing against the Cavs.


The refs didn't have a good game at all. So many confusing calls.
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Re: Re:

12 Jun 2017 17:59

on3m@n@rmy wrote:
jmdirt wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
jmdirt wrote:If you score 49 points in the first quarter, well...

Two things stick out to me: the Cle box looks more like it should (Korver could score a few more if needed), but in the GS box score Curry and Thompson with 14 and 13. Side note, Cle outscored GS in every Q.


Very good win. I wish Green would go away just irritating to watch. Thompson played much better as well for the Cavs.

I don't like his style either. Obviously he is a great player, and by all accounts he has a high BB IQ. He is also a dirty player, and he can't control his emotions. Because GS is a really good team, his BS isn't usually a liability, but as other teams close the gap, and/or as GS dismantles, it might be a different story.

Agree with you both. Dirty style is one thing I don't like about the NBA, even though not everyone plays dirty. Couple of other things I don't like are rule violations that refs do not enforce; palming and traveling are 2 that come to mind that have occurred in this series.

One thing I don't get either is how one team can go from being dominating to dominated? It's almost like someone told GS to lay down in game 4 to let CLE win. $$$. I guess I dont have much trust in the NBA. Nothing against the Cavs.

One reason I don't like the NBA as much as I did back in the 80's and 90's. Seems that palming and traveling are accepted as normal play. This series has shown that to be 100% true.

With respect to the dirty play. I don't like D.Green's act. But I do remember enjoying how 76'rs , Lakers, Boston, and Detroit played back in the day. Even the Great Bulls teams had to eventually play rough to get through Mr. Red Lobster (Isaiah Thomas and the dirty bunch).

I get that the game has changed. I just miss that style.

I think if Cleveland had some of that Detroit bad boy stuff in them... they would have caused GS more trouble. You can't be dirty but you should be rough and try not to get caught by the ref's.
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Re: Re:

13 Jun 2017 00:37

Semper Fidelis wrote:One reason I don't like the NBA as much as I did back in the 80's and 90's. Seems that palming and traveling are accepted as normal play. This series has shown that to be 100% true.

With respect to the dirty play. I don't like D.Green's act. But I do remember enjoying how 76'rs , Lakers, Boston, and Detroit played back in the day. Even the Great Bulls teams had to eventually play rough to get through Mr. Red Lobster (Isaiah Thomas and the dirty bunch).

I get that the game has changed. I just miss that style.

I think if Cleveland had some of that Detroit bad boy stuff in them... they would have caused GS more trouble. You can't be dirty but you should be rough and try not to get caught by the ref's.

One name. Laimbeer. Built like a tree trunk and brought the lumber. Currently a WNBA head coach (NY Liberty).

Tonight's game 5, hoping for good close game. I'll guess a win for GS. Maybe.
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13 Jun 2017 05:11

Cleveland showed some fight in the last two games but I always thought the series result was inevitable. The Cavs jumped out to another good lead but couldn't keep it going. Kyrie looked to be having some injury issues as well which didn't help.
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Re:

13 Jun 2017 07:42

movingtarget wrote:Cleveland showed some fight in the last two games but I always thought the series result was inevitable. The Cavs jumped out to another good lead but couldn't keep it going. Kyrie looked to be having some injury issues as well which didn't help.

Entertaining game, and like you said the Cavs showed some fight. Durantula made the difference for GS in this year's finals...who would have thought. Man...he canned some serious 3's from downtown. And those monsters jams by GS were also entertaining (I could barely touch the rim when I played HS ball decades ago...Lol). Smith also found his trigger finger and was nailing 3's like crazy. Where was that cannon in the earlier games?

Anybody read the lips of the King when it looked like he was getting in the face of Durantula after the skirmish between Thompson & West? Some trash talking maybe, though KD was just smirking. After the game, the King was the first to embrace Durantula and whispered something in his ear. Maybe something to the effect of that he would like to go to GS next season and win an "easy" championship. Lol.
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13 Jun 2017 08:38

Cavs need a point guard badly. Someone who can create shots for others like James. I think there are about 15 point guards in the NBA that are more useful than Irving.


Unless Washington or Boston trade for Paul George there'll be 3 or 4 more of these Finals
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Re: NBA / NCAA Basketball

13 Jun 2017 10:39

Time for Lebron to take his talents to the Bay Area.
BullsFan22
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Re:

13 Jun 2017 12:36

Billie wrote:Cavs need a point guard badly. Someone who can create shots for others like James. I think there are about 15 point guards in the NBA that are more useful than Irving.


Unless Washington or Boston trade for Paul George there'll be 3 or 4 more of these Finals


There's no in between with Irving, he's either on or off and like you said he's not one of the great playmakers, he's more of a solo act. In the 2015 finals I thought James formed a better combination with Dellavedova who played out of his skin in games two and three on offense and defense and also had a great series against the Bulls before that. But injuries caught up with him in 2016. He went pretty well off the bench for the Bucks this season.
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13 Jun 2017 14:30

movingtarget
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Re: NBA / NCAA Basketball

13 Jun 2017 15:25

BullsFan22 wrote:Time for Lebron to take his talents to the Bay Area.

Might as well.

The entire league has become very similar to La Liga. 2 teams to watch at best. The rest poor saps left to bottom feed.
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13 Jun 2017 16:42

Why Cle lost- bench, Love
Why Cle was even close- Smith
Why GS won- bench

A lot is being made of KD being the reason that GS won, but in a series like this, the starters tend to cancel each other out, and its the roll players/bench that make the difference. In this case, the Cle starters beat the GS starters, and it was the bench, Igu, who won the game.

LJ 41, KD 39
KI 26, SC 34
JS 25, KT 11
TT 15, DG 10
KL 6, ZP 0
C=113, GS=94
Bench C 7, GS 35

Obviously there is more to the game than scoring (turnovers 14/13, rebounds 40/42, etc), but in the end the only stat that matters is the final score. I don't think that they use Corver very well. Cle will obviously need to build their bench, especially a PF who can score and play D.

Movingtarget, I don't agree about KI. I think that he and LJ are a good combo. Plus, I question your "solo act" assertion since only James and Curry had more assists than KI last night. EDIT: He could move better without the ball though.

Let's compare him to SC in 2017:
Points: 25.2, 25.3
Assists: 5.8, 6.6
TOs: 2.5, 3.0
Reb: 3.2, 4.5
FG%: .473, .468
jmdirt
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Re:

13 Jun 2017 23:27

jmdirt wrote:Why Cle lost- bench, Love
Why Cle was even close- Smith
Why GS won- bench

A lot is being made of KD being the reason that GS won, but in a series like this, the starters tend to cancel each other out, and its the roll players/bench that make the difference. In this case, the Cle starters beat the GS starters, and it was the bench, Igu, who won the game.

LJ 41, KD 39
KI 26, SC 34
JS 25, KT 11
TT 15, DG 10
KL 6, ZP 0
C=113, GS=94
Bench C 7, GS 35

Obviously there is more to the game than scoring (turnovers 14/13, rebounds 40/42, etc), but in the end the only stat that matters is the final score. I don't think that they use Corver very well. Cle will obviously need to build their bench, especially a PF who can score and play D.

Movingtarget, I don't agree about KI. I think that he and LJ are a good combo. Plus, I question your "solo act" assertion since only James and Curry had more assists than KI last night. EDIT: He could move better without the ball though.

Let's compare him to SC in 2017:
Points: 25.2, 25.3
Assists: 5.8, 6.6
TOs: 2.5, 3.0
Reb: 3.2, 4.5
FG%: .473, .468


Fair point. Cavs will be frustrated with that after Game Four. Like the panel said in the game review. Love, Irving and Lebron all have to be at their best in every game to compete with the Warriors and it didn't happen. Love can be streaky as can JR Smith. Irving is a great player but I was surprised his stats were that good. When Curry becomes the second best player for his team then you know it's going to be a tough night. The bench made a huge difference for the Warriors of course. Losing Bogut in his first game of the season really hurt the Cavs defense because he has the size to cause problems and he is a quality defender even if he is past his best.
movingtarget
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Re: Re:

14 Jun 2017 03:27

movingtarget wrote:
jmdirt wrote:Why Cle lost- bench, Love
Why Cle was even close- Smith
Why GS won- bench

A lot is being made of KD being the reason that GS won, but in a series like this, the starters tend to cancel each other out, and its the roll players/bench that make the difference. In this case, the Cle starters beat the GS starters, and it was the bench, Igu, who won the game.

LJ 41, KD 39
KI 26, SC 34
JS 25, KT 11
TT 15, DG 10
KL 6, ZP 0
C=113, GS=94
Bench C 7, GS 35

Obviously there is more to the game than scoring (turnovers 14/13, rebounds 40/42, etc), but in the end the only stat that matters is the final score. I don't think that they use Corver very well. Cle will obviously need to build their bench, especially a PF who can score and play D.

Movingtarget, I don't agree about KI. I think that he and LJ are a good combo. Plus, I question your "solo act" assertion since only James and Curry had more assists than KI last night. EDIT: He could move better without the ball though.

Let's compare him to SC in 2017:
Points: 25.2, 25.3
Assists: 5.8, 6.6
TOs: 2.5, 3.0
Reb: 3.2, 4.5
FG%: .473, .468


Fair point. Cavs will be frustrated with that after Game Four. Like the panel said in the game review. Love, Irving and Lebron all have to be at their best in every game to compete with the Warriors and it didn't happen. Love can be streaky as can JR Smith. Irving is a great player but I was surprised his stats were that good. When Curry becomes the second best player for his team then you know it's going to be a tough night. The bench made a huge difference for the Warriors of course. Losing Bogut in his first game of the season really hurt the Cavs defense because he has the size to cause problems and he is a quality defender even if he is past his best.

I watched the link you posted, but I must admit that I really don't like SAS, and therefore don't really care what he has to say. I have no idea how he got to where he is. He's just not good IMO. Anyway, NFL is heating up! :)
jmdirt
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Re: Re:

14 Jun 2017 05:07

jmdirt wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
jmdirt wrote:Why Cle lost- bench, Love
Why Cle was even close- Smith
Why GS won- bench

A lot is being made of KD being the reason that GS won, but in a series like this, the starters tend to cancel each other out, and its the roll players/bench that make the difference. In this case, the Cle starters beat the GS starters, and it was the bench, Igu, who won the game.

LJ 41, KD 39
KI 26, SC 34
JS 25, KT 11
TT 15, DG 10
KL 6, ZP 0
C=113, GS=94
Bench C 7, GS 35

Obviously there is more to the game than scoring (turnovers 14/13, rebounds 40/42, etc), but in the end the only stat that matters is the final score. I don't think that they use Corver very well. Cle will obviously need to build their bench, especially a PF who can score and play D.

Movingtarget, I don't agree about KI. I think that he and LJ are a good combo. Plus, I question your "solo act" assertion since only James and Curry had more assists than KI last night. EDIT: He could move better without the ball though.

Let's compare him to SC in 2017:
Points: 25.2, 25.3
Assists: 5.8, 6.6
TOs: 2.5, 3.0
Reb: 3.2, 4.5
FG%: .473, .468


Fair point. Cavs will be frustrated with that after Game Four. Like the panel said in the game review. Love, Irving and Lebron all have to be at their best in every game to compete with the Warriors and it didn't happen. Love can be streaky as can JR Smith. Irving is a great player but I was surprised his stats were that good. When Curry becomes the second best player for his team then you know it's going to be a tough night. The bench made a huge difference for the Warriors of course. Losing Bogut in his first game of the season really hurt the Cavs defense because he has the size to cause problems and he is a quality defender even if he is past his best.

I watched the link you posted, but I must admit that I really don't like SAS, and therefore don't really care what he has to say. I have no idea how he got to where he is. He's just not good IMO. Anyway, NFL is heating up! :)


The problem with Smith is that he's a know all, often the guests on his show make much more sense than he does. I think he does better with Basketball than he does with NFL and he knows little about boxing.
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