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Re:

22 May 2018 15:04

jmdirt wrote:RE: Traveling violation in the NBA: 12.1.71.3: NBA players are allowed four steps without dribbling except for twice during the game when the ref calls traveling so that the fans can't say that they never call traveling. Just as bad is how they dribble from the bottom of the ball on every possession.


The thing about the bottom of the ball dribbling is that it's usually done unconsciously by most of the players and often not to gain an advantage, such that it seems more of a bad habit that could be broken if the refs enforced the rules. I saw Chris Paul do it while dribbling cross court on the perimeter. I guess the league evolves to allow certain things that if called everytime would completely disrupt the flow of the game.

Apparently Harden's two-step move is within the rules according to a couple of NBA referee's videos addressing the issue that I viewed on youtube. It, in my eyes, still looks like traveling. When I played years ago I had a move that created space from my defender but it was within the middle of ending my dribble. It usually worked except against extremely long and athletic defenders (I'm 5'-10"). It involved a movement forward while dribbling followed by a jump back in ending my dribble landing on two feet and shooting my jumper. Harden's move seems to introduce an extra step in there somewhere, all within the rules according to these referee's and universally accepted by the league's refs as I've never seen a violation called on him for doing it.
User avatar Angliru
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Re: Re:

23 May 2018 12:23

Angliru wrote:
jmdirt wrote:RE: Traveling violation in the NBA: 12.1.71.3: NBA players are allowed four steps without dribbling except for twice during the game when the ref calls traveling so that the fans can't say that they never call traveling. Just as bad is how they dribble from the bottom of the ball on every possession.


The thing about the bottom of the ball dribbling is that it's usually done unconsciously by most of the players and often not to gain an advantage, such that it seems more of a bad habit that could be broken if the refs enforced the rules. I saw Chris Paul do it while dribbling cross court on the perimeter. I guess the league evolves to allow certain things that if called everytime would completely disrupt the flow of the game.

Apparently Harden's two-step move is within the rules according to a couple of NBA referee's videos addressing the issue that I viewed on youtube. It, in my eyes, still looks like traveling. When I played years ago I had a move that created space from my defender but it was within the middle of ending my dribble. It usually worked except against extremely long and athletic defenders (I'm 5'-10"). It involved a movement forward while dribbling followed by a jump back in ending my dribble landing on two feet and shooting my jumper. Harden's move seems to introduce an extra step in there somewhere, all within the rules according to these referee's and universally accepted by the league's refs as I've never seen a violation called on him for doing it.

I would argue that letting a violation go is not evolution. For the sake of argument, let's say that Magic started using it as an advantage. If the refs would have called him a few times per game, it wouldn't have become the norm that it is today. In other words, if they would have done their jobs then, it wouldn't be to the point of disrupting the game to call it now.

I see an extra step a lot with the cross-over. Most players stop dribbling too soon and take too many steps now. Its similar to what you described, in that the timing of the last dribble is key.
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25 May 2018 17:16

Brown's arrest: IMO: The cops were way over top. Brown could have made it easier, but entitled, egocentrism doesn't warrant what happened. Obviously the question is did race have anything to do with it, or would the reaction have been the same if his skin was lighter? Unless the first officer said "I need backup with a black perp" the over reaction with backup can't be blamed on race. Their actions once they all got there...WTH?!
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Re:

25 May 2018 22:24

jmdirt wrote:Brown's arrest: IMO: The cops were way over top. Brown could have made it easier, but entitled, egocentrism doesn't warrant what happened. Obviously the question is did race have anything to do with it, or would the reaction have been the same if his skin was lighter? Unless the first officer said "I need backup with a black perp" the over reaction with backup can't be blamed on race. Their actions once they all got there...WTH?!


Yes it was over the top as is parking in a disabled spot. But why put yourself in a position to get involved with cops these days ? They are shooting white women in their pyjamas who actually called the cops !
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Re: Re:

27 May 2018 08:19

jmdirt wrote:
Angliru wrote:
jmdirt wrote:RE: Traveling violation in the NBA: 12.1.71.3: NBA players are allowed four steps without dribbling except for twice during the game when the ref calls traveling so that the fans can't say that they never call traveling. Just as bad is how they dribble from the bottom of the ball on every possession.


The thing about the bottom of the ball dribbling is that it's usually done unconsciously by most of the players and often not to gain an advantage, such that it seems more of a bad habit that could be broken if the refs enforced the rules. I saw Chris Paul do it while dribbling cross court on the perimeter. I guess the league evolves to allow certain things that if called everytime would completely disrupt the flow of the game.

Apparently Harden's two-step move is within the rules according to a couple of NBA referee's videos addressing the issue that I viewed on youtube. It, in my eyes, still looks like traveling. When I played years ago I had a move that created space from my defender but it was within the middle of ending my dribble. It usually worked except against extremely long and athletic defenders (I'm 5'-10"). It involved a movement forward while dribbling followed by a jump back in ending my dribble landing on two feet and shooting my jumper. Harden's move seems to introduce an extra step in there somewhere, all within the rules according to these referee's and universally accepted by the league's refs as I've never seen a violation called on him for doing it.

I would argue that letting a violation go is not evolution. For the sake of argument, let's say that Magic started using it as an advantage. If the refs would have called him a few times per game, it wouldn't have become the norm that it is today. In other words, if they would have done their jobs then, it wouldn't be to the point of disrupting the game to call it now.

I see an extra step a lot with the cross-over. Most players stop dribbling too soon and take too many steps now. Its similar to what you described, in that the timing of the last dribble is key.

Jmdirt is right. I never paid close attention but Harden's 2 step is a traveling violation that should be called. SHAME ON THE NBA! Here's an example that went viral on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/danWorthington/status/985703748633878528?s=19
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28 May 2018 03:01

I really did not think that the Cavs were going to win the East...now can they get the winner of the west?
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Re:

28 May 2018 04:24

jmdirt wrote:I really did not think that the Cavs were going to win the East...now can they get the winner of the west?


Cavs really had to battle except in the Toronto series. Rockets and Warriors have also been up and down. Might go closer than many people expect.
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Re: Re:

29 May 2018 00:03

movingtarget wrote:
jmdirt wrote:Brown's arrest: IMO: The cops were way over top. Brown could have made it easier, but entitled, egocentrism doesn't warrant what happened. Obviously the question is did race have anything to do with it, or would the reaction have been the same if his skin was lighter? Unless the first officer said "I need backup with a black perp" the over reaction with backup can't be blamed on race. Their actions once they all got there...WTH?!


Yes it was over the top as is parking in a disabled spot. But why put yourself in a position to get involved with cops these days ? They are shooting white women in their pyjamas who actually called the cops !

Did you see the cop punching the girl MMA style in the face today (white cop/white girl). Again, she could have made it much easier, but the cops could have done better too. Maybe the pressure of the job is driving them insane. I know you couldn't pay me enough to be a cop.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/05/video-catches-new-jersey-cop-punching-woman-suspected-of-underage-drinking-on-beach.html

Sorry for the OT, but its sorta relative to Brown.
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Re: Re:

29 May 2018 02:39

jmdirt wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
jmdirt wrote:Brown's arrest: IMO: The cops were way over top. Brown could have made it easier, but entitled, egocentrism doesn't warrant what happened. Obviously the question is did race have anything to do with it, or would the reaction have been the same if his skin was lighter? Unless the first officer said "I need backup with a black perp" the over reaction with backup can't be blamed on race. Their actions once they all got there...WTH?!


Yes it was over the top as is parking in a disabled spot. But why put yourself in a position to get involved with cops these days ? They are shooting white women in their pyjamas who actually called the cops !

Did you see the cop punching the girl MMA style in the face today (white cop/white girl). Again, she could have made it much easier, but the cops could have done better too. Maybe the pressure of the job is driving them insane. I know you couldn't pay me enough to be a cop.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/05/video-catches-new-jersey-cop-punching-woman-suspected-of-underage-drinking-on-beach.html

Sorry for the OT, but its sorta relative to Brown.


Cops seem to act as per their protocols these days instead of using commonsense. They prefer to shoot mentally ill people instead of tasering them or tackling them. It seems cops are not allowed to take risks anymore when arresting people, they just go straight for the extreme option. Of course there has to be some good ones.
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30 May 2018 19:07

Cavs vs. Warriors...I just hope we see 4-7 games of good BB, not 7 lopsided games.
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Re:

30 May 2018 22:10

jmdirt wrote:Cavs vs. Warriors...I just hope we see 4-7 games of good BB, not 7 lopsided games.


Stephen A Smith says the Cavs will win one game at the most. So it definitely won't be a five game series...............
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Re: Re:

31 May 2018 01:13

movingtarget wrote:
jmdirt wrote:Cavs vs. Warriors...I just hope we see 4-7 games of good BB, not 7 lopsided games.


Stephen A Smith says the Cavs will win one game at the most. So it definitely won't be a five game series...............

SAS is an idiot. I have just above zero respect for him as a sports talking head. Yelling words from the thesaurus does not a smart dude make.
He said to "expect a repeat of next year". He might have said juggernaut three times. He said the Cavs couldn't overcome BOS three point shooting. Uhmm, but they did.
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Re: Re:

31 May 2018 03:37

jmdirt wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
jmdirt wrote:Cavs vs. Warriors...I just hope we see 4-7 games of good BB, not 7 lopsided games.


Stephen A Smith says the Cavs will win one game at the most. So it definitely won't be a five game series...............

SAS is an idiot. I have just above zero respect for him as a sports talking head. Yelling words from the thesaurus does not a smart dude make.
He said to "expect a repeat of next year". He might have said juggernaut three times. He said the Cavs couldn't overcome BOS three point shooting. Uhmm, but they did.


He picked the 76ers to win the East before the playoffs started then changed his mind at least three times since.
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Re: Re:

31 May 2018 12:27

movingtarget wrote:
jmdirt wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
jmdirt wrote:Cavs vs. Warriors...I just hope we see 4-7 games of good BB, not 7 lopsided games.


Stephen A Smith says the Cavs will win one game at the most. So it definitely won't be a five game series...............

SAS is an idiot. I have just above zero respect for him as a sports talking head. Yelling words from the thesaurus does not a smart dude make.
He said to "expect a repeat of next year". He might have said juggernaut three times. He said the Cavs couldn't overcome BOS three point shooting. Uhmm, but they did.


He picked the 76ers to win the East before the playoffs started then changed his mind at least three times since.

:lol:
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31 May 2018 12:30

I'm not paying much attention, but why do you guys suppose popularity in the NBA is up? We're seeing the same two teams in the finals for the 4th year in a row. Before that it was the same team two years in a row, and in fact every LeBron James team has made the finals for 8 years in a row. And in the last 12 years, only 9 different teams have made the finals. That's an extremely predictable, non-competitive league (at least when it comes to champions). The NBA season is also very long, stretching almost eight months, which means fans are sitting through an awful lot of games, over 100 often, before the (almost inevitable) champion is revealed.

I know other leagues with similar issues can be mentioned. I'm not looking for a comparison. That's not my question. I'm curious why, given the reasons I listed above, popularity in the league is up.
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Re:

31 May 2018 13:41

Alpe d'Huez wrote:I'm not paying much attention, but why do you guys suppose popularity in the NBA is up? We're seeing the same two teams in the finals for the 4th year in a row. Before that it was the same team two years in a row, and in fact every LeBron James team has made the finals for 8 years in a row. And in the last 12 years, only 9 different teams have made the finals. That's an extremely predictable, non-competitive league (at least when it comes to champions). The NBA season is also very long, stretching almost eight months, which means fans are sitting through an awful lot of games, over 100 often, before the (almost inevitable) champion is revealed.

I know other leagues with similar issues can be mentioned. I'm not looking for a comparison. That's not my question. I'm curious why, given the reasons I listed above, popularity in the league is up.


I don't really know..........most people thought months again that Golden State would win again and that the Cavs would be the probable opponents and now most people are saying that it won't go six games. In You Tube the NBA seems to be very popular more so than the NFL No one really thinks the Cavs have a serious shot at the title and with Lebron becoming a free agent, the frenzy will continue about where he lands next season. Not many think he will stay at the Cavs.
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31 May 2018 15:41

You have one major market with a team that is rejuvenated after it's lengthy and controversial "process" (Philadelphia). They are an exciting team with elite young talent. Then you have the Celtics, one of the league's historically great franchises, building on their success from the previous season, this in spite of losing their best player (Kyrie Irving) prior to the start of the playoffs and their second most important acquisition (Gordon Hayward) in the very first game of the season. There are probably long time Celtic fans all over the country who are salivating over the prospects of this team. Both of these teams proved in the playoffs that the east is no longer a done deal for LeBron and the Cavaliers.

In the west you had Houston, with the addition of Chris Paul, playing a brand of basketball that harkens back to the days of the ABA, with their coach Mike D'Antoni, putting no limits on how free his players could be on the court, setting records for 3 point attempts and ultimately ending the season with the best record in the league. Add to that they showed (in the regular season) that they could out Warrior the Warriors in terms of free-wheeling offenses coupled with a team capable of playing shut down defense. Competition is good!

Add Oklahoma's addition of Paul George and Carmelo Anthony to Russell Westbrook and his triple double, MVP awarded 2016-2017 season, and they were a saga that drew the attention of fans wondering whether they would mesh and be a threat in the west (NOPE!).

The Lakers added the drama and family baggage of Lonzo Ball to a roster already brimming with potential, giving another major market and historically great franchise an entertaining team and their national fan base hope for the future.

I think all these elements and probably others that I'm forgetting contributed to the increase in popularity of the league.
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31 May 2018 16:09

I've found that while the Warriors and LeBron have broad appeal, there is equal amounts of fans out there that just can't stand them and take pleasure in rooting for them to fail. With both the Warriors and Cavs fighting back from being down 3-2 in their conference finals, there was likely hope that they would in fact not make it to the finals. There may be a dip in the ratings/audience after this let down for some fans.
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Re:

31 May 2018 22:05

Angliru wrote:You have one major market with a team that is rejuvenated after it's lengthy and controversial "process" (Philadelphia). They are an exciting team with elite young talent. Then you have the Celtics, one of the league's historically great franchises, building on their success from the previous season, this in spite of losing their best player (Kyrie Irving) prior to the start of the playoffs and their second most important acquisition (Gordon Hayward) in the very first game of the season. There are probably long time Celtic fans all over the country who are salivating over the prospects of this team. Both of these teams proved in the playoffs that the east is no longer a done deal for LeBron and the Cavaliers.

In the west you had Houston, with the addition of Chris Paul, playing a brand of basketball that harkens back to the days of the ABA, with their coach Mike D'Antoni, putting no limits on how free his players could be on the court, setting records for 3 point attempts and ultimately ending the season with the best record in the league. Add to that they showed (in the regular season) that they could out Warrior the Warriors in terms of free-wheeling offenses coupled with a team capable of playing shut down defense. Competition is good!

Add Oklahoma's addition of Paul George and Carmelo Anthony to Russell Westbrook and his triple double, MVP awarded 2016-2017 season, and they were a saga that drew the attention of fans wondering whether they would mesh and be a threat in the west (NOPE!).

The Lakers added the drama and family baggage of Lonzo Ball to a roster already brimming with potential, giving another major market and historically great franchise an entertaining team and their national fan base hope for the future.

I think all these elements and probably others that I'm forgetting contributed to the increase in popularity of the league.


Yes I think the playoffs even though ending up with the same two teams were much more interesting than the NFL last season. The two young teams were a good match with the 76ers and the Celtics. The Bucks pushed the Celtics to seven games. The Cavs were pushed to seven games in the first round by the Pacers. The Jazz pushed Houston but without Rubio later on which cost them. Every series across both conferences was pretty good or very good with only Toronto V the Cavs being the only blowout series. Jazz v Thunder was another good series. Even though the East has been the weaker conference the emergence of the Celtics and 76ers and possibly even the Bucks, all three teams being young means the East/West power could be about to swing in the next few years. Orlando and the Jazz have also made good improvement in the West.

Needless to say the NBA looks pretty healthy. If Lebron leaves the Cavs, they along with the Spurs in the West will find it much harder obviously. What happens with Lebron and Leonard and where they land will be another factor for playoff teams next season. And the Celtics with Hayward and Kyrie will be much better. If any two playoff teams slip next year along with San Antonio it could be the Cavs and Toronto maybe. Toronto need more than just a new coach. Oklahoma also have to make some decisions.
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01 Jun 2018 03:56

Nah, James isn't close to MJ, definitely a second-tier HOFer, what has he ever done in the playoffs? :)

He's the Froome of the NBA, I'm sure he's on stuff, but the difference is that whatever he's on doesn't make nearly the difference for basketball skills that blood doping can make for cycling. Plays almost every minute of every game for 15 years, never gets injured. Huge respect.
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