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Re:

12 Jun 2018 17:21

Merckx index wrote:
Scott SoCal wrote:
You do know there are a ton of healthcare providers that won’t take Medicare, right? Then what? Yep, you get to pay 15% more or change your provider. That’s awesome.


Scott, do you ever do even the tiniest bit of research before making these wild claims?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nextavenue/2013/06/11/what-to-do-if-your-doctor-wont-take-medicare/#7340b9e665cd

https://www.forbes.com/sites/howardgleckman/2013/12/18/there-is-no-shortage-of-doctors-willing-take-medicare-patients/#3d629ce64816

https://www.healthmarkets.com/resources/medicare/why-you-should-choose-a-doctor-who-accepts-medicare/

The vast number of doctor—about 95%--do accept Medicare. Yes, there is a small % that don’t, and in some parts of the country it may be worse than others, but it’s not a issue for most people. Since I’ve gone on Medicare, I’ve seen several different doctors, and all of them accepted Medicare. I repeat, I find it to be a terrific system, and frankly, even if I had to pay 15% more across the board, I wouldn’t complain. That still makes it far cheaper than what I had before.

Bernie’s money savings? BS. Total and complete BS. I’ll let you work out why it’s BS


Maybe if you’d finally admit that there is no magic wand we can wave that will reduce health care costs dramatically, you’d understand that, yes, any health care system is going to cost a lot of money, and someone is going to have to pay for it. A single payer system no doubt will cost much more than Bernie’s optimistic estimates. It doesn’t follow that there’s a cheaper way to cover everyone.

Look at our federal budget and look at the carve outs for mandatory spending. Better yet, I'll post it;


Yes, if the government were a business, it would be a grossly inefficient one. News flash! It isn't a business. It has to care for some of the most expensive individuals in our system, because the free market has shown again and again and again it isn't interested in helping them if that cuts into profits.

Just weeks after passing a new tax on big businesses, Seattle political leaders signaled late Monday they would reverse course and repeal it.

Mayor Jenny Durkan and city council President Bruce Harrell said in statements that they would end the tax.


You keep posting that. Your point? That government can easily be bullied into submission by large corporations?


Scott, do you ever do even the tiniest bit of research before making these wild claims?


No. I just post sh*t. :rolleyes:

1. Stick with Your Doc and Pay the Difference
If your doctor is what’s called a “non-participating provider,” this means he or she hasn’t signed an agreement to accept assignment for all Medicare-covered services – but can still choose to accept assignment for individual patients. In other words, your doctor may take Medicare patients, but doesn’t agree to Medicare’s reimbursement rates.

These non-participating providers can charge you up to 15% over the official Medicare reimbursement amount.

If you choose to stick with your non-participating doctor, you’ll have to pay the difference between the fees and the Medicare reimbursement. Plus, you may have to cough up the entire amount of the bill during your office visit. Then, if you want to get paid back, either your doctor will submit a claim to Medicare or you may have to submit it yourself using Form CMS-1490S.

2. Request a Discount
If your doctor is what’s called an “opt-out provider,” he or she may still be willing to see Medicare patients, but expects to be paid his or her full fee – not the much smaller Medicare reimbursement amount. These docs accept absolutely no Medicare reimbursement, and Medicare will not pay for any portion of the bills you receive from them. That means you will be responsible for paying the full bill out of pocket.

Opt-out physicians are required to reveal the cost of all their services to you up front. These doctors will also have you sign a private contract saying you agree to the opt-out method.

Of course, you can always try to negotiate a discount. It's not uncommon for physicians to lower their rates for established patients. They might also offer, as a courtesy, extended payment plans if you're in need of a series of expensive treatments or procedures.


3. Go to a Doc in the Box
Most urgent care centers and walk-in clinics accept Medicare. According to the Urgent Care Association of America, there are more than 7,500 urgent care centers in the United States, and many of these clinics serve as primary care practices for some patients. So, if you just need a flu shot or come down with a relatively minor illness, you may consider going to one of these places. Save the doctor visits for the big stuff.

4. Ask for a Referral
If you simply cannot afford to stick with your doctor, ask him or her to recommend the next best doctor in town who does accept Medicare. Who else is better equipped to make sure you fall into reputable, experienced hands? Your current doctor have already prepared for this eventuality and arranged to transfer Medicare patients to another physician's care.


5. Start Searching
There are still plenty of doctors who take Medicare. You can find them in Medicare’s Physician Compare directory, a comprehensive list of physicians and healthcare providers across the nation. Once you pinpoint a provider, call to make sure they’re still taking on new Medicare patients. After all, this can change on a dime. Another approach is to check the best local hospitals and see if any physicians on their staff are taking Medicare patients. When you get names, research them online to learn about their backgrounds.


The vast number of doctor—about 95%--do accept Medicare. Yes, there is a small % that don’t, and in some parts of the country it may be worse than others, but it’s not a issue for most people. Since I’ve gone on Medicare, I’ve seen several different doctors, and all of them accepted Medicare. I repeat, I find it to be a terrific system, and frankly, even if I had to pay 15% more across the board, I wouldn’t complain. That still makes it far cheaper than what I had before.


My comment was in the context of Bernie's Medicare for all. If even 5% of doctors don't take Medicare now because of how complicated it is to 1) get paid less than the service cost and 2) the infrastructure needed for doctors to actually see patients.

http://managemypractice.com/10-reasons-why-your-doctor-wont-see-medicare-patients/

It doesn’t follow that there’s a cheaper way to cover everyone.


There is and it's demonstrable. THE problem is we can't make people do what they should.

It has to care for some of the most expensive individuals in our system, because the free market has shown again and again and again it isn't interested in helping them if that cuts into profits.


And we can do this, too, without throwing the baby out with the bath water.

You keep posting that. Your point?


That basic mathematics can be effective even with politicians.
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Re: Re:

12 Jun 2018 17:38

ChewbaccaDefense wrote:
I'm not sure you did. We don't produce meaningful differences in terms of outcomes...yet we pay exponentially higher costs..so, uh...maybe you want to look at that again.

What the chart also doesn't show is the abysmal treatment of mental health issues in our country...you know, that issue you guys trot out when a mentally ill person kills kids in a classroom...

Treatment for mental health in our country is abysmal because most mentally ill people can't afford treatment...because (I'm pretty sure you've never made this connection), most people with serious mental health issues aren't super employable...so they're poor. And the poor in our country don't have access to much in the way of healthcare. And your solution (based on the people you vote for, and the legislation they pass) is to cut funding for mental health programs and treatment, and not offer them anything in the way of health insurance (in those states that refused to extend medicaid...I'll give you 3 guesses as to which party runs those states), so we instead pay massive amounts of money to house them in jails and prisons...because you guys will fund the f**k out of prisons...particularly if they're private.

Keep digging.


I'm not sure you did. We don't produce meaningful differences in terms of outcomes...yet we pay exponentially higher costs


It's at best a mixed bag.

Our mental health care is abysmal. Part of what you write is absolute but part isn't. Mental health treatment is as bad as it's access. Just give every patient a pill and we can shutter our institutions.
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Re: Re:

12 Jun 2018 19:16

Scott SoCal wrote:
ChewbaccaDefense wrote:
I'm not sure you did. We don't produce meaningful differences in terms of outcomes...yet we pay exponentially higher costs..so, uh...maybe you want to look at that again.

What the chart also doesn't show is the abysmal treatment of mental health issues in our country...you know, that issue you guys trot out when a mentally ill person kills kids in a classroom...

Treatment for mental health in our country is abysmal because most mentally ill people can't afford treatment...because (I'm pretty sure you've never made this connection), most people with serious mental health issues aren't super employable...so they're poor. And the poor in our country don't have access to much in the way of healthcare. And your solution (based on the people you vote for, and the legislation they pass) is to cut funding for mental health programs and treatment, and not offer them anything in the way of health insurance (in those states that refused to extend medicaid...I'll give you 3 guesses as to which party runs those states), so we instead pay massive amounts of money to house them in jails and prisons...because you guys will fund the f**k out of prisons...particularly if they're private.

Keep digging.


I'm not sure you did. We don't produce meaningful differences in terms of outcomes...yet we pay exponentially higher costs


It's at best a mixed bag.

Our mental health care is abysmal. Part of what you write is absolute but part isn't. Mental health treatment is as bad as it's access. Just give every patient a pill and we can shutter our institutions.


More food for thought, and serious question: If we are spending 2x as much per capita as the average of comparable countries, but don't get twice as good results (and in many areas, worse results), isn't that evidence of a market failure, when the other comparable countries have socialized medical care?

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/#item-relative-size-wealth-u-s-spends-disproportionate-amount-health
ChewbaccaDefense
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12 Jun 2018 19:42

Trump announces that the US is suspending joint military exercises with South Korea.

That is nuts.

THE SAME DAY Vice President Pence tells Senate GOP leaders that military exercises in South Korea will continue!

This is madness!

Can't wait to see how the Trump apologists will spin this one.
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Re: Re:

12 Jun 2018 19:42

ChewbaccaDefense wrote:
Scott SoCal wrote:
ChewbaccaDefense wrote:
I'm not sure you did. We don't produce meaningful differences in terms of outcomes...yet we pay exponentially higher costs..so, uh...maybe you want to look at that again.

What the chart also doesn't show is the abysmal treatment of mental health issues in our country...you know, that issue you guys trot out when a mentally ill person kills kids in a classroom...

Treatment for mental health in our country is abysmal because most mentally ill people can't afford treatment...because (I'm pretty sure you've never made this connection), most people with serious mental health issues aren't super employable...so they're poor. And the poor in our country don't have access to much in the way of healthcare. And your solution (based on the people you vote for, and the legislation they pass) is to cut funding for mental health programs and treatment, and not offer them anything in the way of health insurance (in those states that refused to extend medicaid...I'll give you 3 guesses as to which party runs those states), so we instead pay massive amounts of money to house them in jails and prisons...because you guys will fund the f**k out of prisons...particularly if they're private.

Keep digging.


I'm not sure you did. We don't produce meaningful differences in terms of outcomes...yet we pay exponentially higher costs


It's at best a mixed bag.

Our mental health care is abysmal. Part of what you write is absolute but part isn't. Mental health treatment is as bad as it's access. Just give every patient a pill and we can shutter our institutions.


More food for thought, and serious question: If we are spending 2x as much per capita as the average of comparable countries, but don't get twice as good results (and in many areas, worse results), isn't that evidence of a market failure, when the other comparable countries have socialized medical care?

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/#item-relative-size-wealth-u-s-spends-disproportionate-amount-health


If we are spending 2x as much per capita as the average of comparable countries, but don't get twice as good results (and in many areas, worse results), isn't that evidence of a market failure, when the other comparable countries have socialized medical care?


I'm not sure there are many healthcare consumers in this country satisfied with where we are at. Particularly with cost.

Our system isn't really a market system. Our system has insurance companies insuring crap that they never should have been involved with. I don't think you can just throw your hands up and say "market failure."

I really think Josh Umbehr and his direct care model is scaleable, I think it will provide excellent access and care, I think it will bring down what we spend for healthcare to manageable levels. I sincerely believe it's a win-win-win.

It's easy to implement and won't require new forms of additional government revenue. Everything is already in place.
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Re:

12 Jun 2018 19:46

MarkvW wrote:Trump announces that the US is suspending joint military exercises with South Korea.

That is nuts.

THE SAME DAY Vice President Pence tells Senate GOP leaders that military exercises in South Korea will continue!

This is madness!

Can't wait to see how the Trump apologists will spin this one.


So when did you get to be so hawkish? Which war should we fight first... NK or Russia? Maybe fight both at the same time?

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Gardner: “What the Vice President said today, and we’ll continue to clarify what the president had talked about, exercises will continue with South Korea.” Other senators don’t recall Pence being so definitive

12:11 PM - 12 Jun 2018
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So there you have it.
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12 Jun 2018 20:10

The ironic thing is that Scott is using the exact same false binary that many on the left were using during the Iran talks (i.e. a deal under Obama's terms or WAARRRRRR). Political football at its worst.

Of course, the right answer is that the next war will almost certainly involve Iran.
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Re:

12 Jun 2018 20:21

djpbaltimore wrote:The ironic thing is that Scott is using the exact same false binary that many on the left were using during the Iran talks (i.e. a deal under Obama's terms or WAARRRRRR). Political football at its worst.

Of course, the right answer is that the next war will almost certainly involve Iran.


What's truly ironic is being unable to differentiate between the bitter neocons and the outraged "liberals" on the outbreak of peace with North Korea. Same with Russia.

What was it, 6 months ago the doves were seriously contemplating a nuke exchange with NK? My how times have changed.
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12 Jun 2018 21:16

Outbreak of peace with NK? You can't seriously believe that happened last night.
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Re:

12 Jun 2018 21:30

djpbaltimore wrote:Outbreak of peace with NK? You can't seriously believe that happened last night.


Well, I haven't seen a mushroom cloud over LA just yet.

Maybe let this play out before all of the condemnation? Just a thought.
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Re: Re:

12 Jun 2018 23:30

Scott SoCal wrote:
ChewbaccaDefense wrote:
Scott SoCal wrote:
ChewbaccaDefense wrote:
I'm not sure you did. We don't produce meaningful differences in terms of outcomes...yet we pay exponentially higher costs..so, uh...maybe you want to look at that again.

What the chart also doesn't show is the abysmal treatment of mental health issues in our country...you know, that issue you guys trot out when a mentally ill person kills kids in a classroom...

Treatment for mental health in our country is abysmal because most mentally ill people can't afford treatment...because (I'm pretty sure you've never made this connection), most people with serious mental health issues aren't super employable...so they're poor. And the poor in our country don't have access to much in the way of healthcare. And your solution (based on the people you vote for, and the legislation they pass) is to cut funding for mental health programs and treatment, and not offer them anything in the way of health insurance (in those states that refused to extend medicaid...I'll give you 3 guesses as to which party runs those states), so we instead pay massive amounts of money to house them in jails and prisons...because you guys will fund the f**k out of prisons...particularly if they're private.

Keep digging.


I'm not sure you did. We don't produce meaningful differences in terms of outcomes...yet we pay exponentially higher costs


It's at best a mixed bag.

Our mental health care is abysmal. Part of what you write is absolute but part isn't. Mental health treatment is as bad as it's access. Just give every patient a pill and we can shutter our institutions.


More food for thought, and serious question: If we are spending 2x as much per capita as the average of comparable countries, but don't get twice as good results (and in many areas, worse results), isn't that evidence of a market failure, when the other comparable countries have socialized medical care?

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/#item-relative-size-wealth-u-s-spends-disproportionate-amount-health


If we are spending 2x as much per capita as the average of comparable countries, but don't get twice as good results (and in many areas, worse results), isn't that evidence of a market failure, when the other comparable countries have socialized medical care?


I'm not sure there are many healthcare consumers in this country satisfied with where we are at. Particularly with cost.

Our system isn't really a market system. Our system has insurance companies insuring crap that they never should have been involved with. I don't think you can just throw your hands up and say "market failure."

I really think Josh Umbehr and his direct care model is scaleable, I think it will provide excellent access and care, I think it will bring down what we spend for healthcare to manageable levels. I sincerely believe it's a win-win-win.

It's easy to implement and won't require new forms of additional government revenue. Everything is already in place.


From my point of view, one of the failures: https://www.publicintegrity.org/2015/02/16/16766/elimination-public-option-threw-consumers-insurance-wolves
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13 Jun 2018 05:00

Why countries don't get Trump's trade war - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-12/the-1-4-trillion-u-s-surplus-that-trump-s-not-talking-about
The U.S. has a surplus of $20 billion with China and $1.4 trillion with the rest of the world.

That’s not a normal trade balance, of course, where the U.S. registered an annual deficit of more than $330 billion with China and about $550 billion with the world last year, but an "aggregate sales surplus" which measures both direct trade and the sales of multinational companies, according to research by Deutsche Bank AG.

Just looking at the goods and services trade deficit is misleading and doesn’t capture the true size of U.S. business interests, according to Deutsche Bank economists. While trade and corporate data aren’t usually combined, if you add up all trade data, sales by U.S. companies in foreign countries and foreign firms in the U.S., "U.S. companies have sold more to the rest of the world than other countries have sold to the U.S. in the past ten years," writes chief China economist Zhang Zhiwei in the report.

For China, the image of a massive trade deficit with the U.S. "is at odds with the fact that Chinese consumers own more iPhones and buy more General Motors cars than U.S. consumers," wrote Zhang in the report. "These cars and phones are sold to China not through U.S. exports but through Chinese subsidiaries of multinational enterprises."

Instead of a growing trade deficit with China, Deutsche Bank estimates there was a small but growing surplus. The increase reflected rising demand of Chinese households for foreign goods and services, driven partly by the wealth effect of China’s property boom. The sales surplus with China may exceed $100 billion by 2020 if the world’s two biggest economies avoid a trade war, Zhang estimates.
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"

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Re: Re:

13 Jun 2018 10:43

Scott SoCal wrote:
djpbaltimore wrote:Outbreak of peace with NK? You can't seriously believe that happened last night.


Well, I haven't seen a mushroom cloud over LA just yet.

Maybe let this play out before all of the condemnation? Just a thought.


Your man got 'nada', Scott. I mean ... what did you expect? "PEACE" FFS??? Does your part of the world feel different this morning ... or maybe you're just a Romantic at heart?

Out of his league, Scott. Not just with Xi ... but with his own JCS. That's the scary bit. I'd fear them far more than NK or Iran. Any mushroom cloud is far more likely to come from your country's pop toys than others. You've got the numbers ... you've done it before ... you could do it again ... even by accident, FFS.

Should have listened to Mark Twain et al in 1896-98. Started with your little brown brothers ... now you're everywhere. North **** Korea ... long way from home, brutha.

Can't be trusted. Facts, history prove it.
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Re:

13 Jun 2018 12:00

MarkvW wrote:Trump announces that the US is suspending joint military exercises with South Korea.

That is nuts.

THE SAME DAY Vice President Pence tells Senate GOP leaders that military exercises in South Korea will continue!

This is madness!

Can't wait to see how the Trump apologists will spin this one.


trump pulled the 'no more war games'(and amazingly poor choice of words when dealing with a potential enemy), right outta his fat **** w/o talking to or consulting anybody..kinda like 'we'll be leaving Syria soon', and 'I know more about isis than my generals, believe me'..ah, no thanks, I don't. He's an idiot..surprise. I'll bet china loves the removal of a bunch of US forces on their doorstep..once again, trump is too dumb to know he's doing Xi's(and putin's) bidding..all for the cameras, for his alt right wacko 'deplorables', for faux news..what a surprise.
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Re: Re:

13 Jun 2018 12:05

Scott SoCal wrote:
So when did you get to be so hawkish? Which war should we fight first... NK or Russia? Maybe fight both at the same time?


First, they haven't been called 'war games' for decades. Second, heaven forbid we 'train like you are going to fight', since any real conflict will include non-US allied forces. Third this president(and I use that term very loosely) STILL doesn't understand the time and $ saved when you forward deploy. How long to get forces to Middle east or Asia if they start in Norfolk or SoCal scott? VS if they are in Korea/Japan and Europe/Saudi Arabia?

Training doesn't = fighting..even you boy donnie recognizes the value of readiness..well, I just read that, nope, he probably is ignorant about that too..But he wants a parade..dope.
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Re:

13 Jun 2018 12:09

Robert5091 wrote:Why countries don't get Trump's trade war - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-12/the-1-4-trillion-u-s-surplus-that-trump-s-not-talking-about
The U.S. has a surplus of $20 billion with China and $1.4 trillion with the rest of the world.

That’s not a normal trade balance, of course, where the U.S. registered an annual deficit of more than $330 billion with China and about $550 billion with the world last year, but an "aggregate sales surplus" which measures both direct trade and the sales of multinational companies, according to research by Deutsche Bank AG.

Just looking at the goods and services trade deficit is misleading and doesn’t capture the true size of U.S. business interests, according to Deutsche Bank economists. While trade and corporate data aren’t usually combined, if you add up all trade data, sales by U.S. companies in foreign countries and foreign firms in the U.S., "U.S. companies have sold more to the rest of the world than other countries have sold to the U.S. in the past ten years," writes chief China economist Zhang Zhiwei in the report.

For China, the image of a massive trade deficit with the U.S. "is at odds with the fact that Chinese consumers own more iPhones and buy more General Motors cars than U.S. consumers," wrote Zhang in the report. "These cars and phones are sold to China not through U.S. exports but through Chinese subsidiaries of multinational enterprises."

Instead of a growing trade deficit with China, Deutsche Bank estimates there was a small but growing surplus. The increase reflected rising demand of Chinese households for foreign goods and services, driven partly by the wealth effect of China’s property boom. The sales surplus with China may exceed $100 billion by 2020 if the world’s two biggest economies avoid a trade war, Zhang estimates.


Reality, what a concept but that doesn't play well with trump's deplorables who see those nasty brown and yellow people taking advantage of the good ole, flag waving, apple pie eating, hard working (white) mostly male worker.
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Re: Re:

13 Jun 2018 12:48

Bustedknuckle wrote:
MarkvW wrote:Trump announces that the US is suspending joint military exercises with South Korea.

That is nuts.

THE SAME DAY Vice President Pence tells Senate GOP leaders that military exercises in South Korea will continue!

This is madness!

Can't wait to see how the Trump apologists will spin this one.


trump pulled the 'no more war games'(and amazingly poor choice of words when dealing with a potential enemy), right outta his fat **** w/o talking to or consulting anybody..kinda like 'we'll be leaving Syria soon', and 'I know more about isis than my generals, believe me'..ah, no thanks, I don't. He's an idiot..surprise. I'll bet china loves the removal of a bunch of US forces on their doorstep..once again, trump is too dumb to know he's doing Xi's(and putin's) bidding..all for the cameras, for his alt right wacko 'deplorables', for faux news..what a surprise.


And today, NK says denuclearization is dependent upon ceasing antagonism.

And today, Trump declares that there is no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea.

Trump humiliates his own apologists on a daily basis.
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Re: Re:

13 Jun 2018 13:05

Scott SoCal wrote:
djpbaltimore wrote:Outbreak of peace with NK? You can't seriously believe that happened last night.


Well, I haven't seen a mushroom cloud over LA just yet.

Maybe let this play out before all of the condemnation? Just a thought.


Has 'peace' broken out with Russia or China? None of their mushroom clouds either. There wouldn't be so much 'condemnation' if trump wasn't such a rude pri&k. Many, including me, are overwhelmed by his crude, boorish behavior. It is SO bad, it's easy to overlook anything 'good' that may be happening. He doesn't have to be that way. Why oh why not try to cultivate cohesiveness and not divisiveness? "Haters and losers"..has he ever considered WHY so many people think he's a dic&? Nope..he doesn't care.
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Re: Re:

13 Jun 2018 13:09

MarkvW wrote:
Bustedknuckle wrote:
MarkvW wrote:Trump announces that the US is suspending joint military exercises with South Korea.

That is nuts.

THE SAME DAY Vice President Pence tells Senate GOP leaders that military exercises in South Korea will continue!

This is madness!

Can't wait to see how the Trump apologists will spin this one.


trump pulled the 'no more war games'(and amazingly poor choice of words when dealing with a potential enemy), right outta his fat **** w/o talking to or consulting anybody..kinda like 'we'll be leaving Syria soon', and 'I know more about isis than my generals, believe me'..ah, no thanks, I don't. He's an idiot..surprise. I'll bet china loves the removal of a bunch of US forces on their doorstep..once again, trump is too dumb to know he's doing Xi's(and putin's) bidding..all for the cameras, for his alt right wacko 'deplorables', for faux news..what a surprise.


And today, NK says denuclearization is dependent upon ceasing antagonism.

And today, Trump declares that there is no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea.

Trump humiliates his own apologists on a daily basis.


He's a made for TV chump. Surrounded by hinge-neck chumps.
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13 Jun 2018 14:19

Ya gotta love Scott Pruitt.

Josh Dawsey @jdawsey1
Scott Pruitt's wife, a school nurse who hadn't worked in years, had a top EPA aide and donors seeking to find her a job. Pruitt said it had to happen and kept close tabs on the search until she landed at a conservative judicial group.


This man was heavily rumored to be in line for the top job at the DOJ!

https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/1006875918743363586
Donald Trump: “If you go back to the Civil War, it was the Republicans who did the thing.”
djpbaltimore
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,157
Joined: 09 Jun 2014 13:41
Location: Baltimore, MD

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