Log in:  

Register

U.S. Politics

Grab a short black and come join in the non-cycling discussion. Favourite books, movies, holiday destinations, other sports - chat about it all in the cafe.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Pricey_sky, Tonton, King Boonen, Valv.Piti

Re: U.S. Politics

13 Feb 2018 06:22

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/feb/10/jared-kushner-among-dozens-trump-officials-lacking/
Upwards of 40 people in the administration, including Jared Kushner, the president’s son-and-law and close adviser, continue to lack permanent security clearances more than a year into the Trump presidency, according to multiple reports.


Me thinks, Mr Mueller might have something to do with this ...
Salbutamol - Breakfast of Champions!
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"
Choco Loco for all your doping tips!
User avatar Robert5091
Member
 
Posts: 1,850
Joined: 29 Mar 2016 08:56
Location: stockholm, sweden

13 Feb 2018 07:30

http://thehill.com/policy/technology/373515-overnight-tech-democrats-want-action-on-equifax-trump-releases
Media mogul Rupert Murdoch pressured Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg in 2016 to alter the social media platform's handling of news stories to help the struggling media industry, according to Wired.

Murdoch was concerned that companies like Facebook and Google had been vacuuming up much of the online advertising money that news publishers had relied upon.

According to the report, Murdoch shared his concerns at a meeting with Zuckerberg and suggested that his company would push back if Facebook did not offer more favorable terms.

Wired reports that Zuckerberg and other executives worried the executive chairman of the News Corp. empire would start pushing for federal regulators to look into Facebook's influence and practices.

They also worried Murdoch would use his media to cover Facebook more critically. News Corp., though, insisted that was not part of any plans, according to the report.


So when Fox starts blasting Facebook, you know now it's all about ad revenue ... Jeez!
Salbutamol - Breakfast of Champions!
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"
Choco Loco for all your doping tips!
User avatar Robert5091
Member
 
Posts: 1,850
Joined: 29 Mar 2016 08:56
Location: stockholm, sweden

Re:

13 Feb 2018 10:32

djpbaltimore wrote:I wouldn't necessarily put much faith in what twitter says about the presence of bots on their website. It is in their best economic interest to play up the angle that each 'handle' is an individual who can be responsive to ads and banners. And one of their rebuttals is answering an argument that nobody is putting forward. We know that real prominent people used the hashtags too, but getting something to trend can very easily be fanned through the use of bots. I think most experts are aware that Russia has done some real pioneering work in the cyber espionage realm. It isn't much of a stretch to see their DNC operation as another part of this strategy. The election of Trump *almost* got severe financial sanctions removed.

I know it's early and I'm only one cup of coffee in, but this sounds loony. Especially coming from someone as intelligent as you.

- Twitter investigated who was using #releasethememo and lied to Congress by acknowledging it was confirmed US accounts. In reality it was bots. Russian bots. Because step 3 - profits. Even though Twitter's stated policy is that they don't arbitrate truthiness of posts. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/02/08/twitter-executive-on-fake-news-we-are-not-the-arbiters-of-truth/?utm_term=.93b21e095704

- Russia, a pioneer in cyber-espionage, uses Twitter bots. And "hacks" emails from the DNC server by having someone physically copy them by physically accessing their network/server. https://consortiumnews.com/2017/07/24/intel-vets-challenge-russia-hack-evidence/

- Russia had an operation to elect Trump, and what they came up with was some emails and tweets. The mighty US democracy (that is being spread across the globe one drone strike at a time) is so robust that it crumbled under this impressive onslaught. This glorious Soviet operation, involving ten thousand elite cyber-warriors was successful. Russia elected Trump. Not Americans. They're unable to understand the truth.

Why? Why risk war over Trump? Because Russia has recovered from the sanctions that have them crippled and they desperately need relief before they recover even more fully, or something. https://ideas.repec.org/p/eps/cepswp/11036.html

John Swanson
ScienceIsCool
Member
 
Posts: 1,715
Joined: 05 Jul 2009 15:34

13 Feb 2018 11:56

If you want to know how it's really done, this is how the pros do it:

In 2015, Russia drew up some legislation to curb the activities of "undesirable organizations". Any foreign organization that receives foreign funding AND engages in political activity needs to register as a foreign agent. Those organizations are deemed to be ultra-toxic are declared "undesirable" and aren't allowed to have offices in Russia in addition to no political activity, and no foreign funding.

Now who is on that list?

https://translate.google.ca/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fria.ru%2Fsociety%2F20150707%2F1118850670.html&edit-text=&act=url

Open Society (Soros) - Duh
National Democratic Institute for International Affairs - Democrats off-shoot of NED designed to get involved in the politics of over 70 nations
National Endowment for Democracy - "The National Endowment for Democracy (NED) is a U.S. non-profit soft power organization that was founded in 1983 with the stated goal of promoting democracy abroad." Wikipedia summarizes it so well.
MacArthur Foundation - https://www.macfound.org/tags/russia/ Ugh
Freedom House - a "clear voice for democracy and freedom around the world"
Charles Stewart Mott Foundation - splashing cash abroad for "special exploratory projects"
US-Russia Foundation for Economic Advancement and the Rule of Law - "support the legal, regulatory and institutional development that strengthens a market economy"

Four of those are funded directly by the US government. Hundreds of millions per year. Now THAT is how you influence politics!!

I've looked, but so far haven't found any Russian equivalents operating in the US. Go figure.

John Swanson
ScienceIsCool
Member
 
Posts: 1,715
Joined: 05 Jul 2009 15:34

Re: U.S. Politics

13 Feb 2018 12:04

Robert5091 wrote:https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/feb/10/jared-kushner-among-dozens-trump-officials-lacking/
Upwards of 40 people in the administration, including Jared Kushner, the president’s son-and-law and close adviser, continue to lack permanent security clearances more than a year into the Trump presidency, according to multiple reports.


Me thinks, Mr Mueller might have something to do with this ...


Nope, McGahn and donnie...here's how it works..new 'hire' fills out huge questionnaire..FBI then does background investigation. If the questionnaire is either incomplete(Kushner) or has potentially bad stuff in there(Portman and others, lots of others)..this info goes to McGahn and the result is
-denied-bad, person gets canned
-approved-potentially bad when the 'bad; stuff comes out(Portman)
-Interim Clearance..and this slides into some sort of twilight zone and stays that way. No oversight, no attempt to make the clearance 'whole', it all stops at McGahn..and of course, donnie's desk where he just ignores it..

Strange..I have had many BI while in USN..if somebody cannot get a clearance for some reason the LAST thing they do is see any classified material..even 'Confidential'..If their background is that bad, they never get the commission in the first place and if they do something bad enough, their clearance is revoked and they leave the military(a gent in sister squadron who mailed his wife a bunch of marijuana)..he was gone in about 3 days.

Of course sarah huckebee-hingeneck-professional liar had it all wrong..FBI does the BR investigation than hands all this stuff to WH..they make the decision..
User avatar Bustedknuckle
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4,534
Joined: 23 Jul 2009 15:38
Location: USofA

13 Feb 2018 13:48

Now THIS is interesting. https://theintercept.com/2018/02/09/donald-trump-russia-election-nsa/

"U.S. Secretly Negotiated With Russians to Buy Stolen NSA Documents — and the Russians Offered Trump-Related Material, Too"

John Swanson

Edit:

I should add why I find this so interesting, beyond the obvious. I think it's fascinating because it provides a better picture of the political landscape. On the one side you have the FBI and DoJ, which are confirmed never-Trumpers, and have been working hard on that. But until now, we didn't know that the CIA and NSA are staying neutral or are maybe even yes-Trumpers. We know this because the CIA and NSA ran this operation without feeding the FBI any of the product. And an easy case could have been made for dealing in the FBI because it touched on crimes within the US and an active investigation.

The other biggie in all this is the Pentagon, which seems to have formed a third faction. The CIA and Pentagon have spent the last few years in Syria on opposite sides - actually fighting each other via armed and funded proxies!! However, the Pentagon has staffed out the White House well enough that Trump has been tamed and they're being allowed to play at whatever wars they choose - even against Trump's objections.

So you have three clear divisions. The never-Trumpers, the maybe-Trumpers, and the Trump-is-our-petters. So it looks like there won't be any Grassy Knoll treatment any time soon, because the never-Trumpers would never be able to pull it off without the other two learning about it and piling in.

Also, look who got put onto the CIA nice list - the Intercept!

The big losers here are the big news outlets, and any FBI/DoJ staff that don't reel it in.
Last edited by ScienceIsCool on 13 Feb 2018 14:09, edited 1 time in total.
ScienceIsCool
Member
 
Posts: 1,715
Joined: 05 Jul 2009 15:34

Re: U.S. Politics

13 Feb 2018 14:05

Bustedknuckle wrote:
Robert5091 wrote:https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/feb/10/jared-kushner-among-dozens-trump-officials-lacking/
Upwards of 40 people in the administration, including Jared Kushner, the president’s son-and-law and close adviser, continue to lack permanent security clearances more than a year into the Trump presidency, according to multiple reports.


Me thinks, Mr Mueller might have something to do with this ...


Nope, McGahn and donnie...here's how it works..new 'hire' fills out huge questionnaire..FBI then does background investigation. If the questionnaire is either incomplete(Kushner) or has potentially bad stuff in there(Portman and others, lots of others)..this info goes to McGahn and the result is
-denied-bad, person gets canned
-approved-potentially bad when the 'bad; stuff comes out(Portman)
-Interim Clearance..and this slides into some sort of twilight zone and stays that way. No oversight, no attempt to make the clearance 'whole', it all stops at McGahn..and of course, donnie's desk where he just ignores it..

Strange..I have had many BI while in USN..if somebody cannot get a clearance for some reason the LAST thing they do is see any classified material..even 'Confidential'..If their background is that bad, they never get the commission in the first place and if they do something bad enough, their clearance is revoked and they leave the military(a gent in sister squadron who mailed his wife a bunch of marijuana)..he was gone in about 3 days.

Of course sarah huckebee-hingeneck-professional liar had it all wrong..FBI does the BR investigation than hands all this stuff to WH..they make the decision..


So Donnie has the dirt on all his staff ... good for when they're not "loyal", but I assume Mueller has too.
Salbutamol - Breakfast of Champions!
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"
Choco Loco for all your doping tips!
User avatar Robert5091
Member
 
Posts: 1,850
Joined: 29 Mar 2016 08:56
Location: stockholm, sweden

13 Feb 2018 14:06

ScienceIsCool wrote:Now THIS is interesting. https://theintercept.com/2018/02/09/donald-trump-russia-election-nsa/

"U.S. Secretly Negotiated With Russians to Buy Stolen NSA Documents — and the Russians Offered Trump-Related Material, Too"

John Swanson



Probably total bollocks.

What is the point of 'buying back' documents?

Did the NSA not make a back up copy, and do the Russians not have a means of copying files? :lol:
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
User avatar macbindle
Member
 
Posts: 684
Joined: 22 Dec 2017 16:46

Re:

13 Feb 2018 14:14

macbindle wrote:
ScienceIsCool wrote:Now THIS is interesting. https://theintercept.com/2018/02/09/donald-trump-russia-election-nsa/

"U.S. Secretly Negotiated With Russians to Buy Stolen NSA Documents — and the Russians Offered Trump-Related Material, Too"

John Swanson



Probably total bollocks.

What is the point of 'buying back' documents?

Did the NSA not make a back up copy, and do the Russians not have a means of copying files? :lol:


You can learn a lot by what does and what doesn't get sold back. Maybe more got stolen than you thought. Maybe the guy selling it to you received altered or incomplete intelligence. And you get to learn a lot about who is and who is not playing the game on both sides. Maybe the original product wasn't stolen, but sold by an insider. A look at the originals would tell you loads. That's easily worth a couple hundred thousand. All true, just as long as you're not being strung along by an ACTUAL intelligence operation.

John Swanson
ScienceIsCool
Member
 
Posts: 1,715
Joined: 05 Jul 2009 15:34

13 Feb 2018 16:15

That is a fair point in terms of counter-espionage. Of course, as you suggest, it works both ways.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
User avatar macbindle
Member
 
Posts: 684
Joined: 22 Dec 2017 16:46

Re: Re:

13 Feb 2018 17:35

ScienceIsCool wrote:I know it's early and I'm only one cup of coffee in, but this sounds loony. Especially coming from someone as intelligent as you.

- Twitter investigated who was using #releasethememo and lied to Congress by acknowledging it was confirmed US accounts. In reality it was bots. Russian bots. Because step 3 - profits. Even though Twitter's stated policy is that they don't arbitrate truthiness of posts. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/02/08/twitter-executive-on-fake-news-we-are-not-the-arbiters-of-truth/?utm_term=.93b21e095704

- Russia, a pioneer in cyber-espionage, uses Twitter bots. And "hacks" emails from the DNC server by having someone physically copy them by physically accessing their network/server. https://consortiumnews.com/2017/07/24/intel-vets-challenge-russia-hack-evidence/

- Russia had an operation to elect Trump, and what they came up with was some emails and tweets. The mighty US democracy (that is being spread across the globe one drone strike at a time) is so robust that it crumbled under this impressive onslaught. This glorious Soviet operation, involving ten thousand elite cyber-warriors was successful. Russia elected Trump. Not Americans. They're unable to understand the truth.

Why? Why risk war over Trump? Because Russia has recovered from the sanctions that have them crippled and they desperately need relief before they recover even more fully, or something. https://ideas.repec.org/p/eps/cepswp/11036.html

John Swanson
Most of your arguments are too hyperbolic to really address. No one knows if the Russian interference tipped the scales or not, but I don't think there is any argument that they are using social media in a really pernicious manner and Americans are highly susceptible to this kind of influence. IMO, it is the best place to launder your propaganda. Personally, I think there is a lot of smoke here, which usually denotes a fire.....

The twitter letter only talks about a preliminary analysis and doesn't rebut the finding of others that detected Russian influence or the contributions from automated accounts *at the very least*. So.... no... I don't think that Twitter 'lied', but I maintain that they are being less than truly forthcoming about this. I would make the comparison between twitter and the UCI in their willful blindness to a systemic problem.

The oligarchs want the sanctions removed. Does there really need to be an end game for the state of Russia? If so, maybe it is the weakening of the NATO alliance. The war/ no war binary is too simplistic.
The rapid appearance and amplification of this messaging campaign, flagged by the German Marshall Fund’s Hamilton68 dashboard as being promoted by accounts previously linked to Russian disinformation efforts, sparked the leading Democrats on the House and Senate Intelligence Committees to write a letter to Twitter and Facebook asking for information on whether or not this campaign was driven by Russian accounts. Another report, sourced to analysis said to be from Twitter itself, identified the hashtag as an “organic” “American” campaign linked to “Republican” accounts. Promoters of #releasethememo rapidly began mocking the idea that they are Russian bots. (There are even entirely new accounts set up to tweet that they are not Russian bots promoting #releasethememo, even though their only content is about releasing the supposed memo.) But this back and forth masks the real point. Whether it is Republican or Russian or “Macedonian teenagers”—it doesn't really matter.
The KARYN account is an interesting example of how bots lay a groundwork of information architecture within social media. It was registered in 2012, tweeting only a handful of times between July 2012 and November 2013 (mostly against President Barack Obama and in favor of the GOP). Then the account goes dormant until June 2016—the period that was identified by former FBI Director James Comey as the beginning of the most intense phase of Russian operations to interfere in the U.S. elections. The frequency of tweets builds from a few a week to a few a day. By October 11, there are dozens of posts a day, including YouTube videos, tweets to political officials and influencers and media personalities, and lots of replies to posts by the Trump team and related journalists. The content is almost entirely political, occasionally mentioning Florida, another battleground state, and sometimes posting what appear to be personal photos (which, if checked, come from many different phones and sources and appear “borrowed”). In October 2016, KARYN is tweeting a lot about Muslims/radical Islam attacking democracy and America; how Bill Clinton had lots of affairs; alleged financial wrongdoing on Clinton’s part; and, of course, WikiLeaks. All of these topics were promoted by Russian disinformation campaigns.
Did Twitter know the origins of the #releasethememo campaign when it suspended some (apparently many) of the accounts involved? In which case, did they do so to hide some of the aspects of computational propaganda at play, choosing to say it was an issue of free speech—an “organic” “Republican” campaign flourishing on a healthy platform—rather than one of national security—the infestation of their platform with the deep machinery of manipulation, a portion of which is foreign?
What matters is that someone is trying to manipulate us, tech companies are proving hopelessly unable or unwilling to police the bad actors manipulating their platforms, and politicians are either clueless about what to do about computational propaganda or—in the case of #releasethememo—are using it to achieve their goals. Americans are on their own. And, yes, that also reinforces the narrative the Russians have been pushing since 2015: You’re on your own; be angry, and burn things down.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/02/04/trump-twitter-russians-release-the-memo-216935
Donald Trump: “If you go back to the Civil War, it was the Republicans who did the thing.”
djpbaltimore
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,112
Joined: 09 Jun 2014 13:41
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re:

13 Feb 2018 17:39

ScienceIsCool wrote:If you want to know how it's really done, this is how the pros do it:

In 2015, Russia drew up some legislation to curb the activities of "undesirable organizations". Any foreign organization that receives foreign funding AND engages in political activity needs to register as a foreign agent. Those organizations are deemed to be ultra-toxic are declared "undesirable" and aren't allowed to have offices in Russia in addition to no political activity, and no foreign funding.

Now who is on that list?

https://translate.google.ca/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fria.ru%2Fsociety%2F20150707%2F1118850670.html&edit-text=&act=url

Open Society (Soros) - Duh
National Democratic Institute for International Affairs - Democrats off-shoot of NED designed to get involved in the politics of over 70 nations
National Endowment for Democracy - "The National Endowment for Democracy (NED) is a U.S. non-profit soft power organization that was founded in 1983 with the stated goal of promoting democracy abroad." Wikipedia summarizes it so well.
MacArthur Foundation - https://www.macfound.org/tags/russia/ Ugh
Freedom House - a "clear voice for democracy and freedom around the world"
Charles Stewart Mott Foundation - splashing cash abroad for "special exploratory projects"
US-Russia Foundation for Economic Advancement and the Rule of Law - "support the legal, regulatory and institutional development that strengthens a market economy"

Four of those are funded directly by the US government. Hundreds of millions per year. Now THAT is how you influence politics!!

I've looked, but so far haven't found any Russian equivalents operating in the US. Go figure.

John Swanson

Hmmmm..... RT...........
Donald Trump: “If you go back to the Civil War, it was the Republicans who did the thing.”
djpbaltimore
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,112
Joined: 09 Jun 2014 13:41
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: U.S. Politics

14 Feb 2018 12:21

oooopsie...guess $ did change hands...wonder if donnie paid him back..I also wonder if Herr trump lies to Melania as easily as he lies to the American public..I bet he doesn't..

BUT donnie denied it, she denied it...not sure why the $ was paid..unless they actually chased each other around the hotel room(probably)..

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/trump-lawyers-stormy-daniels-payoff-may-still-be-illegal.html
User avatar Bustedknuckle
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4,534
Joined: 23 Jul 2009 15:38
Location: USofA

14 Feb 2018 13:54

aphronesis
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,267
Joined: 30 Jul 2011 16:47
Location: Bed-Stuy

14 Feb 2018 13:59

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43055995
The long-term personal lawyer of US President Donald Trump has admitted privately paying an adult film star $130,000 (£95,000) in 2016, in a statement to the New York Times.


Both Stormy Daniels & Cohen have been sc***ed by Trump. :)
Salbutamol - Breakfast of Champions!
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"
Choco Loco for all your doping tips!
User avatar Robert5091
Member
 
Posts: 1,850
Joined: 29 Mar 2016 08:56
Location: stockholm, sweden

Re: U.S. Politics

14 Feb 2018 13:59

Bustedknuckle wrote:oooopsie...guess $ did change hands...wonder if donnie paid him back..I also wonder if Herr trump lies to Melania as easily as he lies to the American public..I bet he doesn't..

BUT donnie denied it, she denied it...not sure why the $ was paid..unless they actually chased each other around the hotel room(probably)..

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/trump-lawyers-stormy-daniels-payoff-may-still-be-illegal.html

Stormy didn't deny it. Because she was paid off, she has avoided direct answers: ie: when asked about the the "there is nothing to see here" letter that she 'signed', she said that she did not know where the letter came from.

Other than it being just more lies from this admin., its really not a story because dt wasn't an official politician at the time, and even if he was, this is politician SOP.
jmdirt
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,808
Joined: 06 Dec 2013 17:33

Re:

14 Feb 2018 14:29

aphronesis wrote:https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/02/14/trump-privatizes-america/

In Baltimore, the city metro rail has just been closed for up to a month for emergency track maintenance. It is truly fortunate that there was not a fatal derailing event. And that comes after countless water main breaks during the cold snap last month. The decay is embarrassing. In my neighborhood, there is an ongoing fight against the high speed maglev proposal even though it is not certain that the route would pass here. I don't really see much interest in expanding rail service in the NE corridor. But, overall, the infrastructure plan has a 0% chance of passing, so much of this discussion is academic.
Donald Trump: “If you go back to the Civil War, it was the Republicans who did the thing.”
djpbaltimore
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,112
Joined: 09 Jun 2014 13:41
Location: Baltimore, MD

14 Feb 2018 14:45

The NE corridor is a disaster and it’s the most used in the country. I took bus rides in post-Soviet states after the fall that were effectively as fast with police stops, desolate infrastructure and repeated delays for filtering out of African migrants.

Insofar as there will be no 21c US infrastructure until a public gets educated and forces a reformation of govt. yes it’s academic.

So Hudson’s point about a reversal of value capture.
aphronesis
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,267
Joined: 30 Jul 2011 16:47
Location: Bed-Stuy

14 Feb 2018 16:11

I agree with him that it is a good idea though. I was not familiar with the concept before reading the transcript.
Donald Trump: “If you go back to the Civil War, it was the Republicans who did the thing.”
djpbaltimore
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,112
Joined: 09 Jun 2014 13:41
Location: Baltimore, MD

14 Feb 2018 18:26

Discussions of the concept usually only go in one direction

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/02/keynes-general-theory-mann-review
aphronesis
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,267
Joined: 30 Jul 2011 16:47
Location: Bed-Stuy

PreviousNext

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Catwhoorg and 6 guests

Back to top