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Re:

18 May 2017 13:40

aphronesis wrote:profit over lives. corporate values and interests not social ones. deregulation with increased protections of large private interests. i usually mean it in a fairly precise sense, but this is not the first time the debate's been hashed through here and i'm no longer dissertating on it, so....


Regulation increases protections of large private interests, not the opposite.
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User avatar Scott SoCal
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18 May 2017 13:43

Not what I said. Deregulation has in recent years been accompanied by heightened juridical protections of privatized-corporate-for profit wealth.

It's not a single issue/weasel word project.
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Re:

18 May 2017 14:01

Scott SoCal wrote:Huh.

New York Times, author and professor of constitutional law at Florida International University College of Law Elizabeth Price Foley:


Section 1510 of Title 18 of the United States Code addresses obstruction of criminal investigations. It is a narrow statute, criminalizing only willful acts “by means of bribery” that have the effect of obstructing the communication of information about crimes to federal investigators. Even assuming Mr. Comey’s memo is accurate, there is no indication that President Trump willfully attempted to bribe the F.B.I. director. As the Supreme Court stated in United States v. Sun-Diamond Growers of California, “for bribery there must be a quid pro quo — a specific intent to give or receive something of value in exchange for an official act.”

There is no evidence of a quid pro quo. Even assuming, for the sake of argument, that Mr. Trump intended an implied offer of continued employment in exchange for Mr. Comey’s dismissal of the Flynn investigation, it would be implausible for Mr. Comey to construe it as such. Mr. Comey was aware that he was an at-will employee who could be fired by the president at any time, for any reason. Indeed, when President Obama endorsed Hillary Clinton for president in June 2016 — during the height of the F.B.I.’s investigation into Secretary Clinton’s private email server — it would have been similarly implausible for Mr. Comey to construe Mr. Obama’s pro-Clinton remarks as an implicit offer of continued employment, in exchange for dropping the Clinton investigation. Even though Mr. Comey dropped the investigation one month later, he presumably knew that although it would please both Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton, it would not insulate him from being fired.


Well l'll be.....

WAT?

Sorry I have been preoccupied with quadfocals upcoming plans for 2020 :geek:
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Re: U.S. Politics

18 May 2017 15:37

Jimmy Dore on the Seth Rich/Wikileaks/DNC story:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKawchvHsEg


And something a little less serious from the show, though still scary to think about (in it's own way)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpA6MWlWmtI
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Re: U.S. Politics

18 May 2017 15:48

BullsFan22 wrote:Jimmy Dore on the Seth Rich/Wikileaks/DNC story:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKawchvHsEg


And something a little less serious from the show, though still scary to think about (in it's own way)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpA6MWlWmtI

I posted up something like that before a few days back. I think that is pretty much what everyone thought then.

That private investigator is onto what was going down. Dude had been communicating with wikileaks.
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Re:

18 May 2017 15:53

aphronesis wrote:Not what I said. Deregulation has in recent years been accompanied by heightened juridical protections of privatized-corporate-for profit wealth.

It's not a single issue/weasel word project.


Edit: Perhaps but it's not necessarily accurate either.
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18 May 2017 16:17

You saying deregulation does not generally work against "public" interests and free up protected mobility of capital while guarding against responsibility for externals?
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Re:

18 May 2017 16:39

aphronesis wrote:You saying deregulation does not generally work against "public" interests and free up protected mobility of capital while guarding against responsibility for externals?


In our system nothing is that black or white. That's what I'm saying.

You'd have to define "public interests" in more socialistic terms for this to be accurate. If you believe in "rights" other than God-given (free healthcare for example) then deregulation will be a threat to "public interests." But that's the classic argument that has been going on for a few centuries now.

High regulatory burdens benefit the well-established at the expense of the less-than-well-established. It's a major reason why there's so much corruption. Those that have the ability to control the playing field will.

Look no further than the eight years of the Obama admin.
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18 May 2017 16:51

I was telegraphing with someone who asked me. I'm not being black and white but brief (although on this topic you can be rather stark), so, if I wanted to be having this debate with you (again) I probably wouldn't confine myself to the Obama years.

Public and rights are two separate but related arguments and definitions. I'm not wasting time or energy on this if we're starting with universals that never existed.

Also I think there's a further matter of terms. Your last paragraph does contradict anything I'm saying so much as the applications of "regulatory".

Finance for one hums well absent more burden.
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Re:

18 May 2017 17:01

aphronesis wrote:I was telegraphing with someone who asked me. I'm not being black and white but brief (although on this topic you can be rather stark), so, if I wanted to be having this debate with you (again) I probably wouldn't confine myself to the Obama years.

Also I think there's a matter of terms. Your last paragraph does contradict anything I'm saying so much as the applications of "regulatory".


Obama years are the latest - not the only - example.

The definition of terms (agreement of definition) is what makes this debate all but impossible to have.
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18 May 2017 17:03

Probably also the fact that you think it (I believe) from a business persective while mine is public or social.

As to terms and rights, I'd ask who and and how, not what are.

Or we could take US organics, food distribution and availability. Some restrictions may dissuade and choke off small vendors and producers but other openings of markets enable investment and behemoth control of purchasing and distribution.

The fact that Whole Foods is now struggling doesn't mean food/produce t Trader Joes is now more healthful than what could be found in some hippie co-op 25 years ago.
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18 May 2017 17:56

California's finest, Maxine Waters on MSNBC Morning Joe;

“I am talking about strategies that were developed working with the Trump campaign. I really do believe that much of what you saw coming out of Trump’s mouth was a play from Putin’s playbook. I think that when you saw him absolutely calling Hillary crooked, the, “lock her up, lock her up” all of that was developed. I think that was developed strategically with people from the Kremlin, with Putin, and I think it’s more than bank records.”


Russia, Russia, Russia.
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Re: U.S. Politics

18 May 2017 18:17

Semper Fidelis wrote:
BullsFan22 wrote:Jimmy Dore on the Seth Rich/Wikileaks/DNC story:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKawchvHsEg


And something a little less serious from the show, though still scary to think about (in it's own way)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpA6MWlWmtI

I posted up something like that before a few days back. I think that is pretty much what everyone thought then.

That private investigator is onto what was going down. Dude had been communicating with wikileaks.



Looks like someone got to Mr. Wheeler because he is backtracking.
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18 May 2017 19:38

Senate Judiciary Committee wants all Comey memos pertaining to Trump, Obama, Sessions, Lynch, Rosenstein, Boente, and Yates regarding both Russia and Clinton email investigations


page1
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAEq4GiVoAE1KBX.jpg

page2
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAC3mtkUQAA5q25.jpg
thehog wrote:
Moscon's 6 weeks off for being racist turned him into a GT rider :confused:
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18 May 2017 20:04

...aaaand in a shocking development, Rosenstein knew Comey was getting fired when he wrote the memo.

http://www.businessinsider.com/rod-rosenstein-james-comey-firing-memo-mccaskill-2017-5

...acknowledged that he learned Comey would be removed prior to him writing his memo," despite the White House's initial insistence that Trump fired Comey at Rosenstein's recommendation.


Because, you know, the President himself saying he fired Comey because of Russia wasn't enough for some folks.
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18 May 2017 20:07

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Re:

18 May 2017 20:10

Beech Mtn wrote:Senate Judiciary Committee wants all Comey memos pertaining to Trump, Obama, Sessions, Lynch, Rosenstein, Boente, and Yates regarding both Russia and Clinton email investigations


page1
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAEq4GiVoAE1KBX.jpg

page2
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAC3mtkUQAA5q25.jpg


Kind of looks like Rosenstein is going to open up something investigatory on Clinton. Interesting with her ties to Russia via CGI how that might go.

Dems want a Russia investigation? Okay, let's have one.
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18 May 2017 20:14

One Republican operative in frequent contact with White House officials described them as “going through the stages of grief.” Another said some aides have “moved to angry,” frustrated with a president who demands absolute loyalty but in recent days has publicly tarnished the credibility of his team by sending them out with one message — only to personally undercut it later with a contradictory tweet or public comment.


“The problem with this White House is that there is no one, including Priebus, who is able to tell the president what he doesn’t want to hear and until there is, this White House will be broken, will be dysfunctional and so will Trump’s presidency.”


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-worst-job-in-washington-right-now-working-for-trump/2017/05/17/a3d9ec00-3b17-11e7-a058-ddbb23c75d82_story.html?utm_term=.6e3076c302b1

Too bad none of this total chaos and ineptitude was predictable...

At least he's consistent in his demands of loyalty.
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Re:

18 May 2017 20:21

red_flanders wrote:
One Republican operative in frequent contact with White House officials described them as “going through the stages of grief.” Another said some aides have “moved to angry,” frustrated with a president who demands absolute loyalty but in recent days has publicly tarnished the credibility of his team by sending them out with one message — only to personally undercut it later with a contradictory tweet or public comment.

. “The problem with this White House is that there is no one, including Priebus, who is able to tell the president what he doesn’t want to hear and until there is, this White House will be broken, will be dysfunctional and so will Trump’s presidency.”


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-worst-job-in-washington-right-now-working-for-trump/2017/05/17/a3d9ec00-3b17-11e7-a058-ddbb23c75d82_story.html?utm_term=.6e3076c302b1

Too bad none of this total chaos and ineptitude was predictable...

At least he's consistent in his demands of loyalty.


Talk about consistent.. that WaPo is as reliable as it gets. An un named operative speaking to un named admin officials... not sure why you constantly fall for that kind of 'journalism.'
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Re: Re:

18 May 2017 20:29

Scott SoCal wrote:
red_flanders wrote:
One Republican operative in frequent contact with White House officials described them as “going through the stages of grief.” Another said some aides have “moved to angry,” frustrated with a president who demands absolute loyalty but in recent days has publicly tarnished the credibility of his team by sending them out with one message — only to personally undercut it later with a contradictory tweet or public comment.

. “The problem with this White House is that there is no one, including Priebus, who is able to tell the president what he doesn’t want to hear and until there is, this White House will be broken, will be dysfunctional and so will Trump’s presidency.”


https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-worst-job-in-washington-right-now-working-for-trump/2017/05/17/a3d9ec00-3b17-11e7-a058-ddbb23c75d82_story.html?utm_term=.6e3076c302b1

Too bad none of this total chaos and ineptitude was predictable...

At least he's consistent in his demands of loyalty.


Talk about consistent.. that WaPo is as reliable as it gets. An un named operative speaking to un named admin officials... not sure why you constantly fall for that kind of 'journalism.'


You keep shooting the messenger and running the spin machine, and I'll keep posting information which turns out to be correct. Time will tell, as it has done so far. I'm OK with that.
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