Log in:  

Register

U.S. Politics

Grab a short black and come join in the non-cycling discussion. Favourite books, movies, holiday destinations, other sports - chat about it all in the cafe.

Moderators: Eshnar, Irondan, King Boonen, Red Rick, Pricey_sky

21 Sep 2012 04:31

So...is Romney's last chance to clobber Obama in the debates? The phony debate format is not very suitable for that, and Romney always seems uncomfortable and unauthentic in such settings.

I am not putting a lot of faith in the Republican idea to give Romney more face time. He seems like one of those guys who the more people see, the less they like.
"Listen, my son. Trust no one! You can count on no one but yourself. Improve your skills, son. Harden your body. Become a number one man. Do not ever let anyone beat you!" -- Gekitotsu! Satsujin ken
User avatar BroDeal
Veteran
 
Posts: 13,318
Joined: 18 Mar 2009 00:41
Location: Above 5000 feet

21 Sep 2012 05:30

BroDeal wrote:Unpossible! I have been told by a noted conservative thinker who posts to this very thread that it is Barry's fault and the debt literally asploded under his watch. Looking at that graph gives the wrong impression that the celebrated businessman and president, ol' Dubya himself, might have had something to do with it. In fact, looking through the wrong goggles might give one the impression that Dubya is mostly to blame.

In other news, Romney's campaign co-chairman has abandoned ship. Probably the start of the mad rush for the exits. Don't worry, though. 53% of the rats have vowed to stay with the ship as it goes down. It is only the moochers that have lost faith.


Image
Not done with my drink till I've crunched all the ice crew
User avatar Rip:30
Member
 
Posts: 1,036
Joined: 29 Apr 2010 05:39

21 Sep 2012 12:56

#FeeltheBern
User avatar Amsterhammer
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4,924
Joined: 22 Jun 2009 08:29
Location: Amsterdam

21 Sep 2012 13:35

BroDeal wrote:So...is Romney's last chance to clobber Obama in the debates? The phony debate format is not very suitable for that, and Romney always seems uncomfortable and unauthentic in such settings.

I am not putting a lot of faith in the Republican idea to give Romney more face time. He seems like one of those guys who the more people see, the less they like.
Romney doesn't stand a chance in the debates, that's where Obama shines. Romney's only real chance is a huge blunder/total implosion of the Obama campaign, an Obama scandal, or the economy completely tanking, within about 8 weeks. Unlikely.

At this point, I am more interested in this: after the DNC, Dems are very quietly making big gains in House races as well, to the point where they now have a still-outside-but-real shot at regaining Congress.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/09/20/do-democrats-have-a-74-percent-chance-of-retaking-the-house/
User avatar VeloCity
Veteran
 
Posts: 5,638
Joined: 10 Sep 2009 16:17
Location: Washington, DC

21 Sep 2012 15:47

....a few poignant words on the "magic" of the market place...

"When Worker Productivity Goes Up & Worker Pay Goes Down - That Is Wealth Redistribution

The U. S. is a capitalist nation and our wealth primarily flows through our national "market place". Who ends up with that wealth is an unambiguous result of how that wealth is distributed. When corporations generate more money than they need to operate, decisions must be made where to allocate those surplus fiscal resources. They can go toward upgrading facilities, toward research, toward marketing, toward employee compensation, or toward owner profits. These are conscious choices.

The hands that guide that distribution are not some invisible unseen market force. They belong to managers and owners and corporate boards. They belong to the one percent and to their most trusted agents. Together they have directed a massive redistribution of American wealth away from middle class Americans to the wealthiest among us. When both worker productivity and corporate profits rise while the income of the average American family falls, that isn't preordained and blameless. It is the ownership class in America furthering its own interests by redistributing the fruits of the American economy disproportionately into their own pockets simply because they can, and they are counting on no one stopping them. That's why they want a smaller government, and that's why they are willing to invest heavily in the political process in order to buy one.

We know wealth redistribution in America. It is the class warfare that most of us currently are losing."

Cheers

blutto
User avatar blutto
Veteran
 
Posts: 9,573
Joined: 04 Jul 2009 19:27

21 Sep 2012 16:00

blutto wrote:....a few poignant words on the "magic" of the market place...

"When Worker Productivity Goes Up & Worker Pay Goes Down - That Is Wealth Redistribution

The U. S. is a capitalist nation and our wealth primarily flows through our national "market place". Who ends up with that wealth is an unambiguous result of how that wealth is distributed. When corporations generate more money than they need to operate, decisions must be made where to allocate those surplus fiscal resources. They can go toward upgrading facilities, toward research, toward marketing, toward employee compensation, or toward owner profits. These are conscious choices.

The hands that guide that distribution are not some invisible unseen market force. They belong to managers and owners and corporate boards. They belong to the one percent and to their most trusted agents. Together they have directed a massive redistribution of American wealth away from middle class Americans to the wealthiest among us. When both worker productivity and corporate profits rise while the income of the average American family falls, that isn't preordained and blameless. It is the ownership class in America furthering its own interests by redistributing the fruits of the American economy disproportionately into their own pockets simply because they can, and they are counting on no one stopping them. That's why they want a smaller government, and that's why they are willing to invest heavily in the political process in order to buy one.

We know wealth redistribution in America. It is the class warfare that most of us currently are losing."

Cheers

blutto

+1
Morality and consideration for our fellow man has gone by the way of the dollar bill.
broken chain
Junior Member
 
Posts: 175
Joined: 03 Aug 2009 03:37
Location: ohio

21 Sep 2012 16:25

Solyndra didn't work, so now Issa's getting desperate to pin some scandal - anything - on the Obama administration.

http://www.rollcall.com/issues/58_23/Darrell-Issa-Will-Not-Halt-Fast-and-Furious-Probe-217713-1.html?pos=hftxt

http://swampland.time.com/2012/09/20/fast-and-furious-ig-report-destroys-right-wing-conspiracy-theories/

Time's runnin' out, Darrell, the election is in less than two months. Whatcha got next?
User avatar VeloCity
Veteran
 
Posts: 5,638
Joined: 10 Sep 2009 16:17
Location: Washington, DC

21 Sep 2012 16:44

Leave the religious backbiting out of the discussion, please.

As to the election, a lot can happen in 8 weeks, and the debates could change some minds and we could see a blunder there, shifting some things. We also could see an October Surprise.

I do have to say though, if Obama wins, I'd like to hear Scott's reaction after all those posts of his (maybe someone can dig them up?) guaranteeing that there was no way Obama would get re-elected. ;)
User avatar Alpe d'Huez
Veteran
 
Posts: 10,175
Joined: 11 Mar 2009 03:51
Location: New England

21 Sep 2012 19:40

Alpe d'Huez wrote:I do have to say though, if Obama wins, I'd like to hear Scott's reaction after all those posts of his (maybe someone can dig them up?) guaranteeing that there was no way Obama would get re-elected. ;)


With the economy the way it is and has been throughout Obama's term, the odds of Obama winning should have been very low, so Scott thinking that Obama would lose is understandabe. With a half decent candidate, the Republicans should have clobbered Obama.

But the Repubs did not have a decent candidate. Their presidential candidates were a bunch of clowns. Romney should have been a second stringer in a proper field. The rest, bar Huntsman, were rightwing nuts (Paul, Bachman, Santorum), morons (Perry, Cain), and damaged goods (Gingrich), people who in one way or another were out of the mainstream and had no hope of capturing the middle of the electorate. Romney was always a weak candidate. In a sane party someone like him might have won by default simply because he was not one of the clowns, but Romney was so politically weak that he required vast amounts of money to bury his rivals. Without that monetary advantage, an advantage he would not have against Obama, he would have lost the nomination.

Image

The blame can be fixed squarely on Romney for being a second rate politician who should never have risen to the level of his party's nominee.
"Listen, my son. Trust no one! You can count on no one but yourself. Improve your skills, son. Harden your body. Become a number one man. Do not ever let anyone beat you!" -- Gekitotsu! Satsujin ken
User avatar BroDeal
Veteran
 
Posts: 13,318
Joined: 18 Mar 2009 00:41
Location: Above 5000 feet

21 Sep 2012 21:12

Appears that some on the right are coming completely unglued with the prospect of Obama's now more-than-likely re-election.

The head of the Alabama Republican Party this week threw his support behind one of the most far-fetched theories of the already bizarre birther movement. Speaking to a group of GOP diehards on Wednesday in Fairhope, Ala., party Chair Bill Armistead raved about a film called “Dreams From My Real Father.” The movie claims President Obama’s grandfather was a CIA agent who convinced Barack Obama Sr. to marry his teenage daughter to hide the fact that she’d been secretly impregnated by a communist...Instead of focusing on claims about the president’s Hawaiian birth certificate, the film is narrated by an Obama impersonator and claims the president is a closeted communist, bent on instilling a “classic Stalinist-Marxist agenda upon America at home and abroad.”


er, according to the right, most of the rest of the world is already Stalinist-Marxist, isn't it? Make up your minds. But anyway, the best part:
many of the scenes are “re-creations of probable events, using reasoned logic, speculation, and approximated conversations.”


In other words, we completely made **** up to fit what we'd like to believe is true.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/09/alabama_bill_armistead_birther.php?ref=fpnewsfeed
User avatar VeloCity
Veteran
 
Posts: 5,638
Joined: 10 Sep 2009 16:17
Location: Washington, DC

22 Sep 2012 00:09

....for those of you confused about the fuss made over "that" video of the Mittster saying things that maybe he shouldn't have said, here is a wonderful commentary on same....caution, you may breakout laughing uproariously and spill coffee and stuff....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km4BfW2836Y

Cheers

blutto
User avatar blutto
Veteran
 
Posts: 9,573
Joined: 04 Jul 2009 19:27

22 Sep 2012 00:22

VeloCity wrote:Appears that some on the right are coming completely unglued with the prospect of Obama's now more-than-likely re-election.



er, according to the right, most of the rest of the world is already Stalinist-Marxist, isn't it? Make up your minds. But anyway, the best part:

In other words, we completely made **** up to fit what we'd like to believe is true.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/09/alabama_bill_armistead_birther.php?ref=fpnewsfeed



....and what in gawd's name is the problem with that?....because its the absolute truth, though they did take a little off the fastball because they did not include the all-important alien connection ( you know, the role played in this by the trans-dimensional lizard beings who control the Illuminati and are using Obama to foist foist the New World Order onto the world ) because most regular gawd fearing Amerikan folks just aren't quite ready for that truth.....yet....

Cheers

blutto
User avatar blutto
Veteran
 
Posts: 9,573
Joined: 04 Jul 2009 19:27

22 Sep 2012 04:44

Remember when Clinton's hair color used to change depending on the campaign stop? Romney has taken it to a new level. He put on brownface for his Univision appearance.

Image

I cannot wait to see him speak to the NAACP. He could look like this:

Image
"Listen, my son. Trust no one! You can count on no one but yourself. Improve your skills, son. Harden your body. Become a number one man. Do not ever let anyone beat you!" -- Gekitotsu! Satsujin ken
User avatar BroDeal
Veteran
 
Posts: 13,318
Joined: 18 Mar 2009 00:41
Location: Above 5000 feet

22 Sep 2012 05:25

Another pic from the event.

Image

Shortly after this was taken, Mitt 'Roberto' Romney leaped up and danced the Macarena.

Later that night he was called by Dubya, who told him, "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job."
"Listen, my son. Trust no one! You can count on no one but yourself. Improve your skills, son. Harden your body. Become a number one man. Do not ever let anyone beat you!" -- Gekitotsu! Satsujin ken
User avatar BroDeal
Veteran
 
Posts: 13,318
Joined: 18 Mar 2009 00:41
Location: Above 5000 feet

22 Sep 2012 07:19

VeloCity wrote:Appears that some on the right are coming completely unglued with the prospect of Obama's now more-than-likely re-election.



er, according to the right, most of the rest of the world is already Stalinist-Marxist, isn't it? Make up your minds. But anyway, the best part:

In other words, we completely made **** up to fit what we'd like to believe is true.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/09/alabama_bill_armistead_birther.php?ref=fpnewsfeed


Well, as Blutto says it's all absolutely true. The rest of the world is a bunch of commies who, ya know, hate 'Mericans. After supper last night, and several grappas,with my girlfriend's parents and brother, the father, who isn't exactly a Marxist (he was an electrical engineer for years in the Italian aeronautica and then an inventor of one of those electro-muscle stimulator thingys - in short he's always been a free market guy), exclaimed: "Hey, it's unconscionable ("non è possibile") that some people can make unlimited wealth! Let’s say the mean earnings are 30,000 euro per year. Well then it's not right that some people can make more than 20 times that! Beyond that, they should be taxed at 75-80%."

Now I don't think it was the grappa, or that he's simply gotten too old, because we were talking about Berlusconi and the unconscionable state of corrupt Italian regional politics and all the money that's wasted on the cast, at the expense of all those workers struggling amidst the protracted recession. At any rate I thought to myself, what gap separates someone like him in Italy, who probably would have voted for a Reagan and a Clinton alike (center neoliberal politics in the States has eliminated any substantial divergences between the repubs and the dems anyway - it's all finance and the market), and someone in the US today within the Tea Party universe or any conservative really.

On a different note, but one that also touches upon the subject of US and in this case European differences in sensibilities and world view - which in many ways ultimately boils down to political policy - has to do with what an American female student of mine asked me yesterday on our class excursion to Hadrian's Villa at Tivoli: "Don't the Italians have any grapes without seeds?" My thoughts immediately went back to an article about genetically modified organisms I read the other day. Imagine an enormous extension of arable terrain: tens of thousands of acres. Imagine that in that territory a sort of napalm gets dispersed that kills every type of grass, weed and other plant growth except one, a genetically modified seed designed to resist, only she, the napalm. A patented species not available in nature and the exclusive property of the multinational corporation that created it. This sort of Final Solution, rendered by the GMO "products," has made industrial agriculture possible.

Now the other day the weekly Nouvel Observateur published in advance, the results of a rather frightful study on the terrible effects that GMO corn supposedly had on laboratory rats. In France, among other places, the polemical debate over GMOs is destined to blaze even hotter. But I ask myself, and I ask you: independent of the fact if human health is placed at risk by GMOs or not, is there any sense to a system of food production - and of terrain management - that exterminates all the plants considered "useless" (almost all of them) and consequently wipe out a habitat that took millions of years to form itself and find equilibrium? Next to this doesn't the state of man's health seem a mere trifle, if the entire planet is placed under attack?

And how should I have explained, off topic, to my naive female student, that grapes have damn seeds because that's the way nature made them?

Then I recall an article I read in la Repubblica yesterday by Alexander Stille entitled: If Growth Is Anti-economic. To quote the intellectual and leader of the “Happy Downsizing” political movement, Maurizio Palante: “Growth has been the inevitable cause of the economic crisis we are dealing with now, therefore, it can’t be the solution.” Or from a professional economist’s, Richard Heinberg’s, perspective in his book, The end of growth: adapting to our new economic reality: “Growth, under the past and current model, means more debt, more pollution, accelerated loss of biodiversity and destabilization of the environment…this crisis will bring about an irreversible change of civilization itself. We can’t prevent it, we can only decide whether or not we want to adapt or not our on steroids economic model.”
User avatar rhubroma
Veteran
 
Posts: 7,648
Joined: 02 Apr 2009 14:31

22 Sep 2012 13:44

rhubroma wrote:
Then I recall an article I read in la Repubblica yesterday by Alexander Stille entitled: If Growth Is Anti-economic. To quote the intellectual and leader of the “Happy Downsizing” political movement, Maurizio Palante: “Growth has been the inevitable cause of the economic crisis we are dealing with now, therefore, it can’t be the solution.” Or from a professional economist’s, Richard Heinberg’s, perspective in his book, The end of growth: adapting to our new economic reality: “Growth, under the past and current model, means more debt, more pollution, accelerated loss of biodiversity and destabilization of the environment…this crisis will bring about an irreversible change of civilization itself. We can’t prevent it, we can only decide whether or not we want to adapt or not our on steroids economic model.”


....a great post ( as per usual )....find below a link to an article that works the same field discussed in the paragraph above....hope you enjoy it as much as I did...its short sweet and does a nice job in both introducing and expanding on an issue that is critical to our survival as a functional culture...

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/09/20/the-waning-of-the-modern-ages/

Cheers

blutto
User avatar blutto
Veteran
 
Posts: 9,573
Joined: 04 Jul 2009 19:27

22 Sep 2012 13:57

blutto wrote:....a great post ( as per usual )....find below a link to an article that works the same field discussed in the paragraph above....hope you enjoy it as much as I did...its short sweet and does a nice job in both introducing and expanding on an issue that is critical to our survival as a functional culture...

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/09/20/the-waning-of-the-modern-ages/

Cheers

blutto


Sure, and where would you locate that functional culture? As a utopia? In what country, state, town. Not that I'm not sympathetic, but I suspect it's been long gone and can now be seen as such? And that there will have to be a new set of politics to emerge. In this country at least, they'll have to overcome the atavism that captivates most peoples sense of national belonging.

Here would be one iteration of that problematic, although I don't want to have to have it be confined to an issue of the "left".

http://retort.ludd.net/msg01715.html
aphronesis
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,631
Joined: 30 Jul 2011 16:47
Location: Bed-Stuy

22 Sep 2012 14:34

aphronesis wrote:Sure, and where would you locate that functional culture? As a utopia? In what country, state, town. Not that I'm not sympathetic, but I suspect it's been long gone and can now be seen as such? And that there will have to be a new set of politics to emerge. In this country at least, they'll have to overcome the atavism that captivates most peoples sense of national belonging.

Here would be one iteration of that problematic, although I don't want to have to have it be confined to an issue of the "left".

http://retort.ludd.net/msg01715.html


...where would I locate this functional culture?....my first choice is the planet Earth...maybe I'm hopelessly old-school but I kinda like it....kinda have got used to it....

Cheers

blutto
User avatar blutto
Veteran
 
Posts: 9,573
Joined: 04 Jul 2009 19:27

22 Sep 2012 14:37

blutto wrote:...where would I locate this functional culture?....my first choice is the planet Earth...maybe I'm hopelessly old-school but I kinda like it....kinda have got used to it....

Cheers

blutto


You're saying there's one earth culture?

Reading the article you linked, it's nice to hear from Berman, but Klein is still caught in the logocentric surface she analyzed over a decade ago. That's not how capital or the "Right" actually works. Berman's own essay reveals that if those were the only issues that this wouldn't be an issue.
aphronesis
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,631
Joined: 30 Jul 2011 16:47
Location: Bed-Stuy

22 Sep 2012 15:13

blutto wrote:....a great post ( as per usual )....find below a link to an article that works the same field discussed in the paragraph above....hope you enjoy it as much as I did...its short sweet and does a nice job in both introducing and expanding on an issue that is critical to our survival as a functional culture...

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/09/20/the-waning-of-the-modern-ages/

Cheers

blutto


What this world needs is a total and earth-shattering revolution, in which everything gets destroyed down to its very foundations. Small and petty revolutions won’t due, if anything is to change. For unless this world is not first obliterated and destroyed, it cannot be rebuilt. The world we live in can only be rebuilt once it is totally extinguished, as I have personally attempted to do with my own existence, but failed, in an effort to change myself.

But most people can’t stomach such a total revolution, and daren’t even contemplate one.
User avatar rhubroma
Veteran
 
Posts: 7,648
Joined: 02 Apr 2009 14:31

PreviousNext

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests

Back to top