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01 Nov 2017 03:24

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/31/trump-manhattan-attack-new-york-tweet?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

maybe if this guy had only had assault rifles the body count would be lower. trucks, guns, whatever.
aphronesis
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01 Nov 2017 13:19

Unlike with gun control measures, right-wingers are having little difficulty politicizing a tragedy in the immediate aftermath when it suits their purposes. Totally shocking...

This is not getting nearly as much attention as it deserves, but Pruitt at the EPA is removing scientists from positions on advisory boards if they receive government/ EPA grant funding. Who would benefit from this change? Scientists who represent corporate interests like the fossil fuel industry, who apparently are as pure as the driven snow.
Donald Trump: “If you go back to the Civil War, it was the Republicans who did the thing.”
djpbaltimore
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Re:

01 Nov 2017 15:01

djpbaltimore wrote:Unlike with gun control measures, right-wingers are having little difficulty politicizing a tragedy in the immediate aftermath when it suits their purposes. Totally shocking...

This is not getting nearly as much attention as it deserves, but Pruitt at the EPA is removing scientists from positions on advisory boards if they receive government/ EPA grant funding. Who would benefit from this change? Scientists who represent corporate interests like the fossil fuel industry, who apparently are as pure as the driven snow.

I have posted several times that even if the USA could get a handle on guns, people will still find ways to kill other people, and pointed to how effective running a vehicle in to crowds is. I still think that we should try to make gun ownership safer though.
jmdirt
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Re: Re:

01 Nov 2017 15:22

jmdirt wrote:
djpbaltimore wrote:Unlike with gun control measures, right-wingers are having little difficulty politicizing a tragedy in the immediate aftermath when it suits their purposes. Totally shocking...

This is not getting nearly as much attention as it deserves, but Pruitt at the EPA is removing scientists from positions on advisory boards if they receive government/ EPA grant funding. Who would benefit from this change? Scientists who represent corporate interests like the fossil fuel industry, who apparently are as pure as the driven snow.

I have posted several times that even if the USA could get a handle on guns, people will still find ways to kill other people, and pointed to how effective running a vehicle in to crowds is. I still think that we should try to make gun ownership safer though.


Guns simply allow you to kill more people more easily. Thankful the SOB who attacked NY yesterday didn't have an assault rifle or we'd be counting the dead in dozens or more.
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Re: Re:

01 Nov 2017 15:53

red_flanders wrote:
jmdirt wrote:
djpbaltimore wrote:Unlike with gun control measures, right-wingers are having little difficulty politicizing a tragedy in the immediate aftermath when it suits their purposes. Totally shocking...

This is not getting nearly as much attention as it deserves, but Pruitt at the EPA is removing scientists from positions on advisory boards if they receive government/ EPA grant funding. Who would benefit from this change? Scientists who represent corporate interests like the fossil fuel industry, who apparently are as pure as the driven snow.

I have posted several times that even if the USA could get a handle on guns, people will still find ways to kill other people, and pointed to how effective running a vehicle in to crowds is. I still think that we should try to make gun ownership safer though.


Guns simply allow you to kill more people more easily. Thankful the SOB who attacked NY yesterday didn't have an assault rifle or we'd be counting the dead in dozens or more.

What was the point of jumping out of the truck with at pellet gun? Was he trying to go out "death by cop"?

I'm surprised that the NYPD didn't take him out completely, now we have to pay for an expensive trial and then pay millions to keep him alive in a supermax prison for the next 40 years. I don't believe NY is a death penalty state.

As I cyclist and an American, this act of terror really has an affect on me that I've not noticed in the past few years since I've become numb to the news of terror attacks throughout the world. This one though, really pisses me off.
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Re: Re:

01 Nov 2017 16:29

jmdirt wrote:I have posted several times that even if the USA could get a handle on guns, people will still find ways to kill other people, and pointed to how effective running a vehicle in to crowds is. I still think that we should try to make gun ownership safer though.

In case my point was unclear, members of the GOP are politicizing death caused by terrorism right now, but demand there be no politics talk when death is caused by guns out of 'respect for the victims'. How people kill other people was not something that I was addressing.
Donald Trump: “If you go back to the Civil War, it was the Republicans who did the thing.”
djpbaltimore
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Re: Re:

01 Nov 2017 16:41

djpbaltimore wrote:
jmdirt wrote:I have posted several times that even if the USA could get a handle on guns, people will still find ways to kill other people, and pointed to how effective running a vehicle in to crowds is. I still think that we should try to make gun ownership safer though.

In case my point was unclear, members of the GOP are politicizing death caused by terrorism right now, but demand there be no politics talk when death is caused by guns out of 'respect for the victims'. How people kill other people was not something that I was addressing.

I got that out of your post as well. That's just how politicians work: only twist things to your advantage. Its also the semantics of what terrorism is. Both were mass killings, both could be called terrorism.
jmdirt
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Re: Re:

01 Nov 2017 16:41

Irondan wrote:
red_flanders wrote:
jmdirt wrote:
djpbaltimore wrote:Unlike with gun control measures, right-wingers are having little difficulty politicizing a tragedy in the immediate aftermath when it suits their purposes. Totally shocking...

This is not getting nearly as much attention as it deserves, but Pruitt at the EPA is removing scientists from positions on advisory boards if they receive government/ EPA grant funding. Who would benefit from this change? Scientists who represent corporate interests like the fossil fuel industry, who apparently are as pure as the driven snow.

I have posted several times that even if the USA could get a handle on guns, people will still find ways to kill other people, and pointed to how effective running a vehicle in to crowds is. I still think that we should try to make gun ownership safer though.


Guns simply allow you to kill more people more easily. Thankful the SOB who attacked NY yesterday didn't have an assault rifle or we'd be counting the dead in dozens or more.

What was the point of jumping out of the truck with at pellet gun? Was he trying to go out "death by cop"?

I'm surprised that the NYPD didn't take him out completely, now we have to pay for an expensive trial and then pay millions to keep him alive in a supermax prison for the next 40 years. I don't believe NY is a death penalty state.

As I cyclist and an American, this act of terror really has an affect on me that I've not noticed in the past few years since I've become numb to the news of terror attacks throughout the world. This one though, really pisses me off.


Well if Trump and McCain send him to Guantánamo that should save some money.

This upsets me more than I expected as well, but I think because it underscores again how vulnerable all cyclists are to the whims of someone’s suffocated frstrations. And basically slow moving targets.
aphronesis
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Re: Re:

01 Nov 2017 16:52

red_flanders wrote:
jmdirt wrote:
djpbaltimore wrote:Unlike with gun control measures, right-wingers are having little difficulty politicizing a tragedy in the immediate aftermath when it suits their purposes. Totally shocking...

This is not getting nearly as much attention as it deserves, but Pruitt at the EPA is removing scientists from positions on advisory boards if they receive government/ EPA grant funding. Who would benefit from this change? Scientists who represent corporate interests like the fossil fuel industry, who apparently are as pure as the driven snow.

I have posted several times that even if the USA could get a handle on guns, people will still find ways to kill other people, and pointed to how effective running a vehicle in to crowds is. I still think that we should try to make gun ownership safer though.


Guns simply allow you to kill more people more easily. Thankful the SOB who attacked NY yesterday didn't have an assault rifle or we'd be counting the dead in dozens or more.

I don't know about that. Wasn't the death toll in Nice near 100 and the injury list 400+? Those are similar numbers to the LV shooting, but most shooters don't get those numbers. Also a shooter needs skill and prep. Driving a vehicle into a crowd requires almost no skill or prep.

I would argue that the guy yesterday didn't really put too much thought into it because based on what I've seen in Manhattan, he could have gotten 10 times the casualties if he hit an area around GCS between 5 and 6PM because there are so many people heading home for the day. Granted, I'm usaully in NY around holiday times so that area is likely busier than normal, but still.
jmdirt
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Re: Re:

01 Nov 2017 17:05

jmdirt wrote:
red_flanders wrote:
jmdirt wrote:
djpbaltimore wrote:Unlike with gun control measures, right-wingers are having little difficulty politicizing a tragedy in the immediate aftermath when it suits their purposes. Totally shocking...

This is not getting nearly as much attention as it deserves, but Pruitt at the EPA is removing scientists from positions on advisory boards if they receive government/ EPA grant funding. Who would benefit from this change? Scientists who represent corporate interests like the fossil fuel industry, who apparently are as pure as the driven snow.

I have posted several times that even if the USA could get a handle on guns, people will still find ways to kill other people, and pointed to how effective running a vehicle in to crowds is. I still think that we should try to make gun ownership safer though.


Guns simply allow you to kill more people more easily. Thankful the SOB who attacked NY yesterday didn't have an assault rifle or we'd be counting the dead in dozens or more.

I don't know about that. Wasn't the death toll in Nice near 100 and the injury list 400+? Those are similar numbers to the LV shooting, but most shooters don't get those numbers. Also a shooter needs skill and prep. Driving a vehicle into a crowd requires almost no skill or prep.


I'm not saying that in all cases guns are more deadly that trucks. I'm simply saying that if the guy had a machine gun, many more would be dead. My comment that "guns simply allow you to kill more people more easily" was in response to your comment that "people will still find ways to kill other people" in the context of gun ownership.

The entire point of guns is that they are an incredibly effective way of killing people. Of course people will always find a way to kill other people. However, if somehow magically this country wasn't already riddled with guns, there would be exponentially less murders and suicides every year. Somewhat of a moot point, but I'm simply arguing with the relevance of the point that people will still find ways to kill one another.

The point of wanting a national policy (not local, piecemeal which is laughable) on gun control is to want to limit, not eliminate the number of deaths.
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01 Nov 2017 17:10

The point should also be to focus thought and effort on more complex instances rather than the obvious. @jm, maybe, what are the odds of getting pole position and a line of acceleration around GCS at rush hour? Slim, improbable, astronomical?
aphronesis
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01 Nov 2017 17:29

All the driver has to do is wait for a light cycle and they have pole position. Every intersection is full of people at that time of day, and it wouldn't be difficult to hit many (50?) of them with a quick acceleration right turn from pole position. <That's a simple scenario.
jmdirt
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01 Nov 2017 17:35

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I’m not sure you’ve really driven there at those times. And thought aside you assume a level of calm this guy doesn’t possess.
aphronesis
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01 Nov 2017 18:46

I've never driven there, only been a passenger and pedestrian. I did assume some heightened level of awareness, but maybe I'm mistaken.

I spent two days wondering around downtown last Thanksgiving (Tues/Wed). Not only was there all of the regular holiday stuff, but all of the DT stuff as well. I was kind of surprised that nobody tried something then.
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02 Nov 2017 13:01

So Donna Brazille spills everything. Apparently the DNC was broke and in debt, and HIllary used that as a means of gaining control of the party. That's how she was able to rig the nomination and usurp Bernie's candidacy. Shocking how corrupt it all is. Just imagine, you should be saying "President Sanders" right now.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-02/shocking-truth-donna-brazille-accuses-clinton-campaign-rigging-primary

John Swanson
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02 Nov 2017 13:19

ScienceIsCool
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Re:

02 Nov 2017 14:26

ScienceIsCool wrote:So Donna Brazille spills everything. Apparently the DNC was broke and in debt, and HIllary used that as a means of gaining control of the party. That's how she was able to rig the nomination and usurp Bernie's candidacy. Shocking how corrupt it all is. Just imagine, you should be saying "President Sanders" right now.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-02/shocking-truth-donna-brazille-accuses-clinton-campaign-rigging-primary

John Swanson

Has a much more pleasant ring to it than "President Trump"!
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02 Nov 2017 14:36

Is this the same Donna Brazile that was accused of giving Clinton debate questions at the expense of President Sanders? This is my favorite nugget from her book excerpt that was published by Politico.
Bernie took this stoically. He did not yell or express outrage. Instead he asked me what I thought Hillary’s chances were. The polls were unanimous in her winning but what, he wanted to know, was my own assessment? I had to be frank with him. I did not trust the polls, I said. I told him I had visited states around the country and I found a lack of enthusiasm for her everywhere. I was concerned about the Obama coalition and about millennials.
:lol:

I've said it before, but President Sanders mostly has his own self to blame for his total inability to even compete in the southern states. I doubt the DNC had much sway in how people voted in the primary.

EDIT. Looks like the tax details have been released. Child Tax credit only increased to $1600. Reasonable caps on Mortgage interest deduction and property tax deduction. No change to 401(K). But..... removing the personal exemption and eliminating the ability to deduct state and local taxes (that are not property) is going to hurt a lot of the middle and upper middle classes. With this plan, I roughly estimate that my taxes will go up ~$1500. I wonder how Don Jr will explain this welfare-for-the-rich to his daughter.

EDIT2. Looks like the student loan interest deduction is also gone.
Donald Trump: “If you go back to the Civil War, it was the Republicans who did the thing.”
djpbaltimore
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Re:

02 Nov 2017 16:06

djpbaltimore wrote:Is this the same Donna Brazile that was accused of giving Clinton debate questions at the expense of President Sanders? This is my favorite nugget from her book excerpt that was published by Politico.
Bernie took this stoically. He did not yell or express outrage. Instead he asked me what I thought Hillary’s chances were. The polls were unanimous in her winning but what, he wanted to know, was my own assessment? I had to be frank with him. I did not trust the polls, I said. I told him I had visited states around the country and I found a lack of enthusiasm for her everywhere. I was concerned about the Obama coalition and about millennials.
:lol:

I've said it before, but President Sanders mostly has his own self to blame for his total inability to even compete in the southern states. I doubt the DNC had much sway in how people voted in the primary.

EDIT. Looks like the tax details have been released. Child Tax credit only increased to $1600. Reasonable caps on Mortgage interest deduction and property tax deduction. No change to 401(K). But..... removing the personal exemption and eliminating the ability to deduct state and local taxes (that are not property) is going to hurt a lot of the middle and upper middle classes. With this plan, I roughly estimate that my taxes will go up ~$1500. I wonder how Don Jr will explain this welfare-for-the-rich to his daughter.

EDIT2. Looks like the student loan interest deduction is also gone.


You’re surprised at 2. Silly Sanders thinking class interests carry.
aphronesis
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