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Re: U.S. Politics

17 Feb 2018 14:06

Could you please list the reasons why you think that Russia (the government) was any way interfering with the election? Maybe I'm blind to it, but I haven't seen anything.
John Swanson


U.S. President Donald Trump’s national security adviser has told an international audience that the evidence of Russian meddling in the 2016 American election is beyond dispute.


https://nypost.com/2018/02/17/trumps-national-security-adviser-calls-evidence-of-russian-meddling-incontrovertible/

He also scoffed at any move to work with Russia on cybersecurity, saying “we would love to have a cyber dialogue when Russia is sincere about curtailing its sophisticated form of espionage.


Maybe apply for an interim clearance at the WH and you can see all the TS info??
User avatar Bustedknuckle
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17 Feb 2018 14:51

Well, I've just been reading some of the indictment document and it is frankly quite astounding. This is not vague supposition.

So far, no implicit connection between Trump and the Russia, other than they clearly wanted him to win.

I'd say there are going to be some serious repercussions for social media giants.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
User avatar macbindle
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Re: U.S. Politics

17 Feb 2018 16:49

Bustedknuckle wrote:
Could you please list the reasons why you think that Russia (the government) was any way interfering with the election? Maybe I'm blind to it, but I haven't seen anything.
John Swanson


U.S. President Donald Trump’s national security adviser has told an international audience that the evidence of Russian meddling in the 2016 American election is beyond dispute.


https://nypost.com/2018/02/17/trumps-national-security-adviser-calls-evidence-of-russian-meddling-incontrovertible/

He also scoffed at any move to work with Russia on cybersecurity, saying “we would love to have a cyber dialogue when Russia is sincere about curtailing its sophisticated form of espionage.


Maybe apply for an interim clearance at the WH and you can see all the TS info??


If it's beyond dispute then what is it!? What's the evidence? Why hasn't anyone been arrested or impeached?

This is stupid.

John Swanson
ScienceIsCool
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Re:

17 Feb 2018 16:56

macbindle wrote:Well, I've just been reading some of the indictment document and it is frankly quite astounding. This is not vague supposition.

So far, no implicit connection between Trump and the Russia, other than they clearly wanted him to win.

I'd say there are going to be some serious repercussions for social media giants.


Are you serious? 13 Russians (not Russian agents) spent the money of some Russian capitalist, who catered some functions Putin attended (gasp!) and this somehow unraveled the 6+ billion dollars that candidates spent on their campaigns, plus all the mainstream media coverage, plus all the pollsters, plus all the grassroots activism, plus all of twitter and facebook. All undone by a couple million bucks and 13 Russians. The same Russians that played both sides to foster discord rather than support one candidate, Astounding!

John Swanson
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17 Feb 2018 17:02

You haven't read it, have you.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
User avatar macbindle
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Re:

17 Feb 2018 17:17

macbindle wrote:You haven't read it, have you.

You have, obviously. Give the major points fact by fact. If you can... Nobody has shown ANY evidence about Russia (the government), Trump, the election, or any combination that may have been materially responsible for people having to mutter the execrable phrase "President Trump". Senior official says. General such-and-such says. Blah. Given the rabid hatred (well deserved), I'm sure at least ONE fact tying it all together would have emerged.

It's okay. You can hate Trump. He's eminently unsavory. There's simply no need for this relentless, on-going narrative involving Russia. It's nonsense. Given the way global politics is shifting, it's probably desirable to make an ally of Russia and stop trying to prevent their re-emergence along with the growing prominence of China, India, Iran, and a good chunk of the rest of Asia.

John Swanson
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17 Feb 2018 17:38

Yup. That sounds like an open mind to me :D

Read the indictments. How many Russians should have been involved then, in order for their nationality to be relevant?
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
User avatar macbindle
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Re:

17 Feb 2018 18:08

macbindle wrote:Yup. That sounds like an open mind to me :D

Read the indictments. How many Russians should have been involved then, in order for their nationality to be relevant?


How many? A single government connected one. This was just a bunch of yahoos. My mind's wide open. Fill it with facts.

John Swanson
ScienceIsCool
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17 Feb 2018 18:35

So what are you suggesting? It's just a bunch of unconnected random Russians who did it for the lolz?

Seriously, read the indictment. This sh1t was seriously well-organised and funded.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
User avatar macbindle
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Re:

17 Feb 2018 19:54

macbindle wrote:So what are you suggesting? It's just a bunch of unconnected random Russians who did it for the lolz?

Seriously, read the indictment. This sh1t was seriously well-organised and funded.

Take it however you want. Can you say, with all honesty, that this group had enough influence to warrant an investigation into the legitimacy of an American election? Did they honestly swing things from a Clinton to a Trump presidency? Did they have any possibility of doing so?

John Swanson

Edit: I should add that it took 5 billion, Nuland, McCain, Maidan, and several snipers to take down mighty Ukraine. Sad that the entire US went for a few million and a cadre of nobodies.
ScienceIsCool
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17 Feb 2018 19:58

Read the indictment.

See what they are alleged to have done in the course of trying to influence the course of your election. It wasn't just lobbying ;)

I'm with you on the post hoc rationalisation of Trump haters, I really am, and I'm not blind to the subterfuge of US entities operating abroad. They are all playing the same game, but that doesn't negate the game.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
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17 Feb 2018 21:31

I find attempted civility here between members an admirable goal. We all have different views that vary depending on factors too numerous to list. If the Russians spent more than @10,000,000 USD for actors,ad space and social media surges to influence the campaign is not know. But some rubbles caused a rumble here without doubt.
I think what we all should focus on regardless of party leaning, is Trump's influence on truth. Why does he personally lie so much? And is his being a liar the cause for all the jobs lost or unfilled?
Did people need to lie about the use of government money for personal travel? Did anyone need to lie about Bunny payments or porn star hush money? Did the VA secretary think that making up a story about a false awards ceremony was a plausible yarn?
No matter what we agree or disagree on we need to work towards discovery about Trump's lying.. Is it bad or good for the country? Good, long term, short term..long lasting bad effects on the country..
No logical person could argue that Trump is not a liar..in his first 130 days in office he had more days with lies than days w majority factual statements..
Now just over a year in and he finally admitted that Russian operatives were at work during our elections..
I can't help but wonder if Trump had a hard time letting go of Easter Bunny, Santa Claus,Chupacabbra, Bigfoot legends..has Trump seen Elvis lately?
Unchained
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17 Feb 2018 23:02

“She lost the old-fashioned way, by being a terrible candidate. Case closed.”
Beech Mtn
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Re: U.S. Politics

18 Feb 2018 01:39

Is Trump the Lance Armstrong of politics? To me, that's what it comes down to. Or Sky, actually, with the defense walls around the castle getting closer and closer to the dungeon. Same arguments. Same denials. And some who want to believe, or not admit that they were fooled.

From the Russian thing is an hoax, nobody I have no business deals with Russia, nobody I know had contacts with Russia, it's like the justification for war in Iraq, the bar keeps getting lower.

Four Trump associates squealing, thirteen Russians charged later, with details that can't be made up, and the deniers still fight on. Like the ones claiming that gas chambers never existed. Fanatics.

Putin poisoned the presidential election, it's a fact. Even Mac Master concedes it. Only two questions remain IMO:

1. The involvement of Trump and his entourage. Collusion? What we know is that Kushner tried to set up a safe room in a Russian embassy. Yikes...did Trump know? Did he know about the meeting in the Trump tower?
2. The dossier: 80% has been proven true. The remainder is dirt, but dirt that can make a candidate the object of blackmail: Stormy $130K, Playboy $150K (looks like a rate), maybe a video from The Donald that would be damaging. The body-guard said that the offer was there...wanna bet ;) ?

In case that some of you ignored it, many have stated that Trump is not fit for the job. Playing Golf today, Part time Prez. Liar.

I love America: I'm not an American. With the news coming, I wonder if any members here are bots. Sad.
SOLO LA VITTORIA È BELLA
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18 Feb 2018 01:56

I’m curious who you think here has remotely suggested that Trump is fit for the job. And what you think the job is?
aphronesis
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Re:

18 Feb 2018 02:53

aphronesis wrote:I’m curious who you think here has remotely suggested that Trump is fit for the job. And what you think the job is?

The job is to represent the US with dignity...like Obama did. Not engage in d*ck contest with the piglet in NK. Show restrain. Class. Sell the US, not the Jerry Springier show.
User avatar Tonton
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18 Feb 2018 03:13

In times like these Trump the buffoon looks like the target.
. Trump has said repeatedly he doesn't read..in some of his first days as a statesman he knocked people out of the way.. literally, he has abandoned in part our state security apparatus by shaking up everything we worked on together after WWII.
Trump has now proposed and passed the most insane tax plan in American history.. before the ink was dry..he has budget numbers that would make anybody trying to be credit worthy laughed out of a loan office.
His ideas to build and stabilize the economy have him intentionally disrupting trade with all our biggest partners.. domestically he has actually spent 1\3 of his time vacationing.
I hardly see where Trump is the biggest problem.. our Congress and courts are kneeling at his crazy glory holes without being asked..his insanity is seen as necessary for political survival by almost all in his party..he can't make the Cool aid fast enough for the Republicans to guzzle and beg for more..
It's starting to heat.. women are mad.. children wonder why them being terrorized at school and church is necessary for some old white guy model of freedom.. people are not going backwards and now that some of the physical signs are appearing in everyday life.. so will the swell of resistance..
Unchained
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18 Feb 2018 03:16

Well, when national interests are a mess and the electorate is a mess maybe it’s a suitable representation. Did all the issues facing Trump magically materialize on inauguration day?
aphronesis
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18 Feb 2018 05:47

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/374423-trump-fbi-spending-too-much-time-trying-to-prove-russian-collusion-to
In January, a person close to Cruz called the FBI's public tipline and raised concerns about his gun ownership, desire to kill and warned of a possible school shooting.

But the FBI never reported the tip to its Miami field office or investigated the claim, the bureau said Friday.

Imagine the NRA, Alex Jones' et al comments if the FBI stopped the kid from buying a gun ...
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"

“It doesn’t matter what I do. People need to hear what I have to say. There’s no one else who can say what I can say. It doesn’t matter what I live.”
User avatar Robert5091
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Re: Re:

18 Feb 2018 06:00

Tonton wrote:
aphronesis wrote:I’m curious who you think here has remotely suggested that Trump is fit for the job. And what you think the job is?

The job is to represent the US with dignity...like Obama did. Not engage in d*ck contest with the piglet in NK. Show restrain. Class. Sell the US, not the Jerry Springer show.


Politics on TV is fighting for ratings like all other programs - that Trump's campaign was like a reality tv show was no accident but the logical conclusion of the how media & the political system works in the US - Taibbi explains, and warns about it, well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUWobxRSQKQ

(Remember this from April? -
During a small working lunch at the White House last month, the question of job security in President Trump’s tumultuous White House came up, and one of the attendees wondered whether press secretary Sean Spicer might be the first to go.

The president’s response was swift and unequivocal. “I’m not firing Sean Spicer,” he said, according to someone familiar with the encounter. “That guy gets great ratings. Everyone tunes in.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/everyone-tunes-in-inside-trumps-obsession-with-cable-tv/2017/04/23/3c52bd6c-25e3-11e7-a1b3-faff0034e2de_story.html )
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"

“It doesn’t matter what I do. People need to hear what I have to say. There’s no one else who can say what I can say. It doesn’t matter what I live.”
User avatar Robert5091
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