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Re:

22 Oct 2018 11:18

python wrote:...making some good points, alp73.

i always said - and this applies across nations and humans - that [color=#FF0000] (1) a brutally honest capacity for self reflection is the 1st step. it does not, of cause, mean that a healthy and natural self interest should be cancelled...

but when a strongest nation on earth (2) with the military budget the size of the rest of the world (a documented fact) destroys one international treaty after another, threatens, bullies and sanctions both its allies and adversaries, moreover, when a nation priding itself on being the land of laws threatens the International Criminal Court if they start investigating the war crimes of the said nation, one has to wonder if the self-interest has grown into
(3) an arrogant impunity.

i still believe in 2 american phenomena - (4) the us judicial system and the civil society traditions - i believe in their capacity to turn things around w/o a social earthquake. something an authoritarian system, which the us does NOT qualify for even under trump, would normally achieve via a bloody civil conflict. perhaps, i am ignorant or naive ?



To the bolded ...


(1) Seems inescapably reasonable
(2) and the highest chance of blowing up the world (even by accident)
(3) this is either how the uberest savvy guru coach manages the clock/the bullpen ... or ... NOT?
(4) The US model of rule of law is (comparitively speaking) a strong card and a weather vane worth watching for (major) breaches in the decades to come. Civil society will come under increasing palpable stress as the population hits 400 million in the next 30 years ... internal political polarization, global isolation, global interference, burgeoning deficit and moral attrition aside.


Sometimes ... things can go really bad ... really quickly. Chances of prevention are not unlimited.
Alpe73
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Re:

22 Oct 2018 11:45

python wrote:...

i still believe in 2 american phenomena - the us judicial system and the civil society traditions - i believe in their capacity to turn things around w/o a social earthquake. something an authoritarian system, which the us does NOT qualify for even under trump, would normally achieve via a bloody civil conflict. perhaps, i am ignorant or naive ?


It would appear that not everyone agrees on this point:

The annual “Human Freedom Index”, a joint publication of the Fraser Institute, the Friedrich Naumann Foundation for Freedom and the Cato Institute, considers 79 different indicators of personal and economic freedom. These days the United States doesn’t even make the top 10. In fact, it trails countries like Poland and Finland.

This index gives the U.S. a particularly low score for the rule of law. This shouldn’t be a surprise. Americans are the second most imprisoned people in the world. They are five times more likely to find themselves in prison than a citizen of China or Canada. To put these numbers in context, the only other countries, which are remotely close to the U.S. rate of imprisonment, are all ruled by notorious dictators, including Turkmenistan and Rwanda.

And those dire numbers are nothing compared to the incarceration rates of African Americans. They are jailed five times more frequently than whites. And while levels of drug use are the same for both whites and blacks, the imprisonment rate for the latter is six times worse. Incredibly, as a result one in four African American men will end up in jail at some point in their lifetime.


https://www.macleans.ca/news/world/the-slow-death-of-american-freedom/?utm_medium=organic&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1XYmTepStR-v7_excJxvtXNx3p1wLt4A01EIqGJNko7_JsMA605SrefuA#Echobox=1539982564
"This comment qualifies as a shining example of the "anyone who disagrees with my perspective is a dolt" leftist, intolerant mish-mash of shallow thinking." - Scott SoCal
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Re: U.S. Politics

22 Oct 2018 12:00

which reduces a very complex situation with a lot of different variables—to basically ‘they can get away with murder because they are going to buy our weapons.’


don the dunce can't grasp a complex situation, what a surprise..donnie the dope will give the standard Helsinki moment response..'MBS says he wasn't involved and I believe him'..complete moron.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/10/mike-pompeo-jamal-khashoggi-saudi-arabia
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Re: Re:

22 Oct 2018 12:51

frenchfry wrote:
python wrote:...

i still believe in 2 american phenomena - the us judicial system and the civil society traditions - i believe in their capacity to turn things around w/o a social earthquake. something an authoritarian system, which the us does NOT qualify for even under trump, would normally achieve via a bloody civil conflict. perhaps, i am ignorant or naive ?


It would appear that not everyone agrees on this point:

The annual “Human Freedom Index”, a joint publication of the Fraser Institute, the Friedrich Naumann Foundation for Freedom and the Cato Institute, considers 79 different indicators of personal and economic freedom. These days the United States doesn’t even make the top 10. In fact, it trails countries like Poland and Finland.

This index gives the U.S. a particularly low score for the rule of law. This shouldn’t be a surprise. Americans are the second most imprisoned people in the world. They are five times more likely to find themselves in prison than a citizen of China or Canada. To put these numbers in context, the only other countries, which are remotely close to the U.S. rate of imprisonment, are all ruled by notorious dictators, including Turkmenistan and Rwanda.

And those dire numbers are nothing compared to the incarceration rates of African Americans. They are jailed five times more frequently than whites. And while levels of drug use are the same for both whites and blacks, the imprisonment rate for the latter is six times worse. Incredibly, as a result one in four African American men will end up in jail at some point in their lifetime.


https://www.macleans.ca/news/world/the-slow-death-of-american-freedom/?utm_medium=organic&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1XYmTepStR-v7_excJxvtXNx3p1wLt4A01EIqGJNko7_JsMA605SrefuA#Echobox=1539982564


Good old Macleans. They sure know how to do some scary Halloween cherry picking.

The US trails Finland! Holy ****!

Comparitively speaking, US ranking is pretty good ... up 7 points from last time, where Canada has fallen 7 spots. Habs taking more penalties than the Bruins. Now I know why. Cheers, FF. :)
Alpe73
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Re: Re:

22 Oct 2018 15:47

Alpe73 wrote:
frenchfry wrote:
python wrote:...

i still believe in 2 american phenomena - the us judicial system and the civil society traditions - i believe in their capacity to turn things around w/o a social earthquake. something an authoritarian system, which the us does NOT qualify for even under trump, would normally achieve via a bloody civil conflict. perhaps, i am ignorant or naive ?


It would appear that not everyone agrees on this point:

The annual “Human Freedom Index”, a joint publication of the Fraser Institute, the Friedrich Naumann Foundation for Freedom and the Cato Institute, considers 79 different indicators of personal and economic freedom. These days the United States doesn’t even make the top 10. In fact, it trails countries like Poland and Finland.

This index gives the U.S. a particularly low score for the rule of law. This shouldn’t be a surprise. Americans are the second most imprisoned people in the world. They are five times more likely to find themselves in prison than a citizen of China or Canada. To put these numbers in context, the only other countries, which are remotely close to the U.S. rate of imprisonment, are all ruled by notorious dictators, including Turkmenistan and Rwanda.

And those dire numbers are nothing compared to the incarceration rates of African Americans. They are jailed five times more frequently than whites. And while levels of drug use are the same for both whites and blacks, the imprisonment rate for the latter is six times worse. Incredibly, as a result one in four African American men will end up in jail at some point in their lifetime.


https://www.macleans.ca/news/world/the-slow-death-of-american-freedom/?utm_medium=organic&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1XYmTepStR-v7_excJxvtXNx3p1wLt4A01EIqGJNko7_JsMA605SrefuA#Echobox=1539982564


Good old Macleans. They sure know how to do some scary Halloween cherry picking.

The US trails Finland! Holy ****!

Comparitively speaking, US ranking is pretty good ... up 7 points from last time, where Canada has fallen 7 spots. Habs taking more penalties than the Bruins. Now I know why. Cheers, FF. :)


I must admit that when I saw US trailing Finland I had the same reaction, not a bad place to be. I do admit to an unwavering respect for scandinavian countries though - even though I have never set foot there. Poland, on the other hand...especially recently.

Take the article for what it is worth, what I took away is that US justice is not necessarily above reproach and certainly has faults. Having said that, no country is perfect.

More an Oilers fan myself.
"This comment qualifies as a shining example of the "anyone who disagrees with my perspective is a dolt" leftist, intolerant mish-mash of shallow thinking." - Scott SoCal
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22 Oct 2018 17:16

If the US justice system is held up as one of the best parts of America vis a vis the rest of the world, I would suggest that this says more about the rest of the world than anything about the quality of the US justice system. Our system is definitely not beyond reproach.
None of us alone are as stupid as all of us together.
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Re:

22 Oct 2018 20:30

djpbaltimore wrote:If the US justice system is held up as one of the best parts of America vis a vis the rest of the world, I would suggest that this says more about the rest of the world than anything about the quality of the US justice system. Our system is definitely not beyond reproach.


That's because it is a myth. I suppose we could revert back to the Salem Witch Trials, but technically no, because pre national charter. Other than the Roman Catholic Inquisition. Slavery, however, is fair game. Then there would be Manifest Destiny and the Indian reserves, not exactly beacons of "justice and democracy." To these deplorable facts, we must leapfrog into the era of baron industrialists and the consequent socialist boogeyman that eventually led to the incarceration of union leader and "traitor to his country" (according to Woodrow Wilson), Eugene Victor Debs, from a trial without witnesses; to the unfounded guilt and criminal executions of the Bolsheviks Sacco and Vanzetti. Of course who could forget the Japanese detainment camps under FDR, who otherwise orchestrated the New Deal; nor, thereafter, the McCarthy era witch hunts that ruined many. Let us not suffer over the Civil Rights judicial debacles, or about, more recently, the state sponsored US military torture prisons in Iraq, or those of Guantanamo. The fact alone that the nation still has a barbarous death penalty, should itself disqualify the US judicial system from the status of aspirational model.
Last edited by rhubroma on 23 Oct 2018 05:43, edited 1 time in total.
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22 Oct 2018 21:27

I think OJ showed the world the state of the American justice system.
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"

“It doesn’t matter what I do. People need to hear what I have to say. There’s no one else who can say what I can say. It doesn’t matter what I live.”
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Re:

23 Oct 2018 03:30

Robert5091 wrote:I think OJ showed the world the state of the American justice system.

Yo. Robert you better watch some highlight reels of OJ...I will summarize...everyone on both teams,everyone in the stadium..and everyone watching on television knew OJ was getting the ball..in some rare form of football magic..he would run like a scared deer through and past the defending team..truly incredible..
And to take a line from Trump... " so what if he murdered Nicole and Ron Goldman..he was a phenomenal running back!!!and !ook at the money Hertz made!!!and the Airplane movies!!!very lucrative..I think that there was way too much emphasized about those couple of murders..I mean she was dating black men...and he was just a waiter..and a horny one at that..I think there was a mountain of take news..
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23 Oct 2018 12:39

(Not to mention, "If I did it")

One of the reasons people migrate - no food -
https://www.thedailybeast.com/forget-trump-hysteria-heres-how-the-migrant-caravan-crisis-really-began?ref=home
Honduras is one of the countries that has been most affected by climate change, particularly in the part of its territory that intersects with what’s known as the Central America Dry Corridor. In the past, farmers in this region could rely on two harvests annually, but now they are lucky to produce one. This year, a severe drought during the rainy season meant tens of thousands of families produced none.
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"

“It doesn’t matter what I do. People need to hear what I have to say. There’s no one else who can say what I can say. It doesn’t matter what I live.”
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23 Oct 2018 19:16

It is my own personal and military experience that a middle aged ..portly..(sorry Jamal) writer would enter a secure..heavily armed facility ..unarmed..wearing hard sole shoes for optimal traction and mobility..and start a fist fight with 15 men..1 with a bone saw..this all makes prefect sense..case closed..
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23 Oct 2018 21:15

This whole interview is jaw-dropping. Hard to believe this is from an incredibly intelligent person.
I don’t think you understand that men—hard-line, wealthy, privileged WASPs—with Jewish sons-in-law are not racists. You take these things for granted. I’m a little older and I don’t. If he has accepted and embraced Jews in his family, it is absurd to call him a prejudiced or biased or bigoted man.
Let me just insert parenthetically. If I say something like, “I came before this judge. He did something rotten and unfair, but after all he was an Arab,” maybe I’m bigoted against Arabs. Maybe, on the other hand, I don’t have a bigoted bone in my body and I believe that Arabs are bigoted against me. Those are two completely separate things, and if you think races other than white Anglo-Saxons are incapable of bigotry, it’s unbelievably naïve. There are a lot of bigots in the world, and a minority of them are whites in my experience.
That’s a typical left-wing statement as you know very well. I mean, this is what the left likes to sell: a global approach in which nobody’s better than anybody else.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/10/david-gelernter-donald-trump-why-liberals-hate-trump-op-ed.html
None of us alone are as stupid as all of us together.
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24 Oct 2018 10:59

Well that depends on what you mean by intelligence. Evidently he's really smart with algorithms, which leads him to arrogantly presume, in the science driven, rationalized market and consumption governed world we live in, that he's gifted with acute mental acumen in every cognitive sphere. But he clearly has zero critical nous. Worse than being an idiot, therefore, owing to a lethal combination of boneheadedness and conceit, he's someone in Italian that would simply be called, and certainly by me, a "stronzo."
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24 Oct 2018 12:36

IMO dt talking about middle class tax relief is just a mid-term campaign stunt. He does bot plan to cut middle class taxes, he plans to get votes.
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24 Oct 2018 12:40

According to https://www.dn.se/nyheter/varlden/uppgift-cia-chefen-hamtade-bevis-kring-khashoggis-dod/ and Turkish newspaper Sabah, Haspel has collected all the info on Khashoggis murder. What happens next is the question.

CIA bury some of it to protect "sources & methods" and maybe Bibi's Boys helped listening to the Saudis.
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"

“It doesn’t matter what I do. People need to hear what I have to say. There’s no one else who can say what I can say. It doesn’t matter what I live.”
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24 Oct 2018 19:04

Asking all people here..Americans in particular..there appears to be a trend to show cell phone video of American goons flipping out over anyone speaking something other than English while in the United States...just a word of caution..I have traveled a little...nobody ever to!d me not to speak English in their country..really the opposite..if you hear me speak German,Vlaams or Spanish..most people would prefer that I speak English!!!
I hope that our culture is not so insular..myopic and immature to think this type of mistaken behavior can be beneficial..both in the U.S. and worldwide..
Americans don't want to travel?..ever?
Americans want potential tourists or residents can't come unless they speak fluent English..?wtf
Did we forget that most of our families got here without the command of the language..?
I have never experienced anything similar to these hateful American temper tantrums in limited..but world wide travel
Unchained
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24 Oct 2018 19:10

You're going to reap just what you sow ...
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2018/oct/24/bombs-clintons-obamas-latest-live-news-updates-cnn-time-warner-evacuations-explosive-devices

I suppose we should be surprised it has n't happened earlier. :sad:
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"

“It doesn’t matter what I do. People need to hear what I have to say. There’s no one else who can say what I can say. It doesn’t matter what I live.”
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Re:

24 Oct 2018 20:47

Unchained wrote:Asking all people here..Americans in particular..there appears to be a trend to show cell phone video of American goons flipping out over anyone speaking something other than English while in the United States...just a word of caution..I have traveled a little...nobody ever to!d me not to speak English in their country..really the opposite..if you hear me speak German,Vlaams or Spanish..most people would prefer that I speak English!!!
I hope that our culture is not so insular..myopic and immature to think this type of mistaken behavior can be beneficial..both in the U.S. and worldwide..
Americans don't want to travel?..ever?
Americans want potential tourists or residents can't come unless they speak fluent English..?wtf
Did we forget that most of our families got here without the command of the language..?
I have never experienced anything similar to these hateful American temper tantrums in limited..but world wide travel



I think the videos are more to shame the person doing it and those who are agree with the person. Too many morons over here think everyone should only speak English. Another thing they don't get is even if it was the official language (the US doesn't have an official language) people can still speak whatever language they want to. There are some over here just waiting to tell one of these people off if they do something like that in our presence. For me, I don't know another language to even try to have a conversation in it in public. My Spanish is bad and anything else is virtually non existent. Also it's more racism as there has not been an instance of one of these people saying anything to a Caucasian speaking Spanish. (It's also more just Spanish than any other language as well.)
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Re:

24 Oct 2018 23:42

Unchained wrote:Asking all people here..Americans in particular..there appears to be a trend to show cell phone video of American goons flipping out over anyone speaking something other than English while in the United States...just a word of caution..I have traveled a little...nobody ever to!d me not to speak English in their country..really the opposite..if you hear me speak German,Vlaams or Spanish..most people would prefer that I speak English!!!
I hope that our culture is not so insular..myopic and immature to think this type of mistaken behavior can be beneficial..both in the U.S. and worldwide..
Americans don't want to travel?..ever?
Americans want potential tourists or residents can't come unless they speak fluent English..?wtf
Did we forget that most of our families got here without the command of the language..?
I have never experienced anything similar to these hateful American temper tantrums in limited..but world wide travel


I've certainly had the same experiences as you traveling. Ask 'em if they speak english and it's often "no" (or whatever), but try and speak the language and they usually just start speaking to you in english.

I'm in a bit of a decency bubble here in the bay area, I think most of the goon behavior happens in other parts of the country, though California as a whole gets all kinds.

I try and help people out no matter what language they speak. I also think that it's important to have a national language, it's one of the things that ties the culture together, but I can't imaging projecting that on to some innocent person asking for some help who doesn't speak English. Boorish behavior has been getting worse over the years, and the idiot-in-charge has opened the floodgates for this kind of crap. The tone he's setting is horrible, so it's going to get worse before it gets better.
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Re: Re:

25 Oct 2018 01:19

red_flanders wrote:
Unchained wrote:Asking all people here..Americans in particular..there appears to be a trend to show cell phone video of American goons flipping out over anyone speaking something other than English while in the United States...just a word of caution..I have traveled a little...nobody ever to!d me not to speak English in their country..really the opposite..if you hear me speak German,Vlaams or Spanish..most people would prefer that I speak English!!!
I hope that our culture is not so insular..myopic and immature to think this type of mistaken behavior can be beneficial..both in the U.S. and worldwide..
Americans don't want to travel?..ever?
Americans want potential tourists or residents can't come unless they speak fluent English..?wtf
Did we forget that most of our families got here without the command of the language..?
I have never experienced anything similar to these hateful American temper tantrums in limited..but world wide travel


I've certainly had the same experiences as you traveling. Ask 'em if they speak english and it's often "no" (or whatever), but try and speak the language and they usually just start speaking to you in english.

I'm in a bit of a decency bubble here in the bay area, I think most of the goon behavior happens in other parts of the country, though California as a whole gets all kinds.

I try and help people out no matter what language they speak. I also think that it's important to have a national language, it's one of the things that ties the culture together, but I can't imaging projecting that on to some innocent person asking for some help who doesn't speak English. Boorish behavior has been getting worse over the years, and the idiot-in-charge has opened the floodgates for this kind of crap. The tone he's setting is horrible, so it's going to get worse before it gets better.


This is surely boorish behavior, but really small change in the cash register of social issues that seriosly challenge the US. There are similar boors and assholes in all countries, just that the US can't get enough of using its superior media machine to parade itself as "spectacle" ... while playing Who Polarizes The Best?


I'm not an American and often yield to the tempation of "sticking it to them" for their apparent slip ups. Having said this, I would be insincere not to recognize the immense contributions that the country has made over time on numerous fronts. Having said that, I really have my doubts how this large and increasingly populated nation can manage all the macro and micro mandates it has taken on. Republican vs Democrat is the least of the country's worries, in the long run. Like Python said last week, might be time for the country to do an honest intropection on what it has become ... does it like what it sees ... what fundamental changes need to be made to remain effecacious and HEALTHY.


I often see the US as a loud and proud rock star. Yes, he's a spectacle ... and we love to look at him ... but who, other than the desperate, would want to be him?
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