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Re: Re:

14 Feb 2019 14:03

aphronesis wrote:
The Hitch wrote:
macbindle wrote:
red_flanders wrote:I'm here to tell you that the discourse is alive and well, despite a few noisy students. Talking of which, since when have students behaved differently? I was doing the same puerile sh1t in the 80s. Actually, maybe not puerile , it was an actual fascist we were dealing with. That ok with you?

Ooh, he was an "actual fascist". Who was it? Salman Rushdie?

Just kidding.

As for students always being like this, I would reccomend Jonathan Haidt, who has been doing research on this and identifies a major change 5 years ago.

But when I say reccomend I mean to read and listen to what he has to say, and not exclusively read the hit pieces on him from Vox, Buzzfeed and the Guradian


Hit pieces like this?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/10/by-mollycoddling-our-children-were-fuelling-mental-illness-in-teenagers

or this?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/books/2018/sep/20/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind-review

Little too many facts clouding the reactionary polemics? It’s hard being alive in a fragmented world. Hard to find someone who talks directly to you and gives you some peace and clarity.


I was referring to how he went after Harris and Peterson, with no interest in hearing them out, and only in trying to catch them out.

No idea if the crazies have started going after Haidt already or not.
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14 Feb 2019 14:04

"Imagine your loved ones conquered by Napoleon and forced to live under French rule. Do you want them to eat that rich food and those heavy sauces? Do you want them to have soufflé every meal and croissant?"
User avatar Robert5091
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14 Feb 2019 14:05

@hitch,

Which crazies? Show me.

Calling people crazies before the fact seems a little dismissive. No interest in hearing them out. That sort of thing.
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Re: U.S. Politics

14 Feb 2019 14:06

It's Valentine's day and trump is a-lyin' again..
'Finish the wall'...YGBSM..are his knuckle dragging base that stupid? Why yes they are. Not one foot of his 'wall' has been built anywhere yet he states that it has everyday.
During a sit-down interview with Fox News host Laura Ingraham this week, President Donald Trump admitted that he hadn’t yet read the bipartisan deal to keep the government open because he was rushing over to see her. “It was between the deal and you and I had to choose you,” he told her.

“He literally said, I had a choice between running the government and going on Fox News, and I chose Fox News,” Seth Meyers explained on Wednesday’s Late Night. “No quote has ever summed up Trump’s presidency better than that.”

“Even your supporters know that you haven’t started the wall,” Meyers said. “Because they know that if you had, Fox News would have a camera pointed at it 24/7 and the foreman on the job would be the fourth Fox & Friend.”


incredible but normal-normal for this moron trump.
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Re: U.S. Politics

14 Feb 2019 14:08

trump, the lying, sexist, racist pig has found religion...are the 'evangelicals' really that stupid? Why, yes they are. Even they know trump is a pig, he is THEIR pig..

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/13/trump-evangelicals-1169394
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Re:

14 Feb 2019 14:42

aphronesis wrote:Hey, it’s cool: everyone has a right to their market blind neo-con tendencies. It would be good if they could defend them better. This was a domestic effect of the economic and imperial move to terror and security as the poles of normal and not.

I believe this was the original article. Or one of them

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/399356/

I share its basic concern.

But you know I recall telling students ten years ago that because they came of age in a period of historical amnesia and technological surveillance that this type of sensitivity could be expected. It’s also a problem that many liberal faculty don’t know how to take themselves out of what they’re saying and talk about material objectively with curiosity rather than as right or wrong.

And then there’s the fact that behavioral psychology and its disciplinary neighbors are big on statistics and instrumental causality but low on molecular interconnections.


An admittely cursory skim but what struck me about Haidt's piece was the failure to reference students' experiences outside of faculty lectures . What is this realworld moderating force that filters all experiences including those of which the students have no control such that they are incapable of managing their own emotional response? How can this be when violence, sexism and racism (for example) runs through the veins of American culture?
Last edited by macbindle on 14 Feb 2019 15:00, edited 2 times in total.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
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Re: Re:

14 Feb 2019 14:54

The Hitch wrote:
aphronesis wrote:
The Hitch wrote:
macbindle wrote: I'm here to tell you that the discourse is alive and well, despite a few noisy students. Talking of which, since when have students behaved differently? I was doing the same puerile sh1t in the 80s. Actually, maybe not puerile , it was an actual fascist we were dealing with. That ok with you?

Ooh, he was an "actual fascist". Who was it? Salman Rushdie?

Just kidding.

As for students always being like this, I would reccomend Jonathan Haidt, who has been doing research on this and identifies a major change 5 years ago.

But when I say reccomend I mean to read and listen to what he has to say, and not exclusively read the hit pieces on him from Vox, Buzzfeed and the Guradian


Hit pieces like this?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/10/by-mollycoddling-our-children-were-fuelling-mental-illness-in-teenagers

or this?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/books/2018/sep/20/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind-review

Little too many facts clouding the reactionary polemics? It’s hard being alive in a fragmented world. Hard to find someone who talks directly to you and gives you some peace and clarity.


I was referring to how he went after Harris and Peterson, with no interest in hearing them out, and only in trying to catch them out.


To the bolded: Patrick Harrington, deputy leader of the National Front. That fascist enough to meet your criteria of a fascist?

To your last post: I've heard what they say. You think they are visionaries, I think they have little to say that is either original or interesting. Whether it be Peterson with his atavistic hocus-pocus showmanship, or Harris with his low-hanging obsolete anodyne sensationalism passed off as radical.

This morning, whilst wrestling a particularly obstinate dump, I listened to this: https://youtu.be/XJlZwkZyYfg

That horse bolted years ago, Sam. Tell us something we don't find totally f'kin obvious. Low-hanging, no risk, fruit. Just like the anti-muslim BS.

Quoted edited by KB.
Last edited by macbindle on 14 Feb 2019 18:50, edited 6 times in total.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
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Re: Re:

14 Feb 2019 15:02

macbindle wrote:
aphronesis wrote:Hey, it’s cool: everyone has a right to their market blind neo-con tendencies. It would be good if they could defend them better. This was a domestic effect of the economic and imperial move to terror and security as the poles of normal and not.

I believe this was the original article. Or one of them

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/399356/

I share its basic concern.

But you know I recall telling students ten years ago that because they came of age in a period of historical amnesia and technological surveillance that this type of sensitivity could be expected. It’s also a problem that many liberal faculty don’t know how to take themselves out of what they’re saying and talk about material objectively with curiosity rather than as right or wrong.

And then there’s the fact that behavioral psychology and its disciplinary neighbors are big on statistics and instrumental causality but low on molecular interconnections.


An admittely cursory skim but what struck me about Haidt's piece was the failure to reference students' experiences outside of faculty lectures . What is this realworld moderating force that filters all experiences including those of which the students have no control such that they are incapable of managing their own emotional response? How can this be when violence, sexism and racism (for example) runs through the veins of American culture?


Screen immediacy
aphronesis
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14 Feb 2019 15:36

Not a fun anniversary..how far have we come? In the 50's American kids told to hide under the desk for protection from a nuclear bomb.
Tactics and equipment for war have advanced 1000 fold since US 90's..laser sights, vests, ammo ..everything lighter,better,faster,easy to buy for the average American consumer.
When those devices are used to kill Americans, extremely effective,and given the numbers of highly armed citizens is an impossibility to police and protect the public.
Who are the dead? there is no boundary,everyone can be murdered anywhere. Doesn't matter if you are shopping,worshiping,enjoying dancing,dining or a concert.
Our students killed in school. Education responding w lock down drills..just as silly as the 50's..turn off the lights,lock the door,hide and hope you are not shot. The tactical plan..arm a few people who are tasked with protecting large schools,often with 1000's of students. Stupid from the onset.
I am often critical of political puds I see as serving themselves instead of the public that elected them. But never would I dream of saying that they should be gunned down. But that is out there daily and our police at every level are standing there stupid.AOC and others with death threats but little to no public resolution to public terror.
Trump has spent 2 years playing with himself and doing nothing to protect Americans. He has us going backwards.
All Americans can only hope we can change and stay alive
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14 Feb 2019 15:45

(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
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14 Feb 2019 21:35

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47247726
President Donald Trump will sign a border security bill to avert a government shutdown as well as declare a national emergency to fund his wall.

The White House said he would sign the bill as promised, but also take action to bypass Congress and use military funds for a US-Mexico border wall.
...
Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi has already suggested a legal challenge from Democrats should the president make an emergency declaration.

"If the president can declare an emergency on something that he has created as an 'emergency', an illusion that he wants to convey, then think of what a president with different values can present to the American people."


From President to Emperor is a scary move and Trump bypassing the Congress to use funding is surely against the Constitution.
"Imagine your loved ones conquered by Napoleon and forced to live under French rule. Do you want them to eat that rich food and those heavy sauces? Do you want them to have soufflé every meal and croissant?"
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15 Feb 2019 11:29

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/01/venezuela-crisis-latest-updates-190123205835912.html
President Nicolas Maduro has invited a US special envoy to come to Venezuela after revealing in an interview with The Associated Press news agency that his foreign minister recently held secret meetings with the US official in New York.

The second of two meetings took place on February 11, four days after the envoy - Elliott Abrams - said the time for dialogue with Maduro's government had long passed.

Even while criticising Trump's confrontational stance toward his socialist government, Maduro said he holds out hope of meeting him to resolve an impasse over his recognition of Guaido.

Maduro said that while in New York, his foreign minister invited Abrams to come to Venezuela "privately, publicly or secretly."

"If he wants to meet, just tell me when, where and how and I'll be there," Maduro told AP, without providing more details. He said both New York meetings lasted several hours.

There was no immediate comment from Washington.

Maduro said he would not give up power and called the US aid currently sitting on the border with Colombia mere "crumbs" following Washington's move to freeze billions of dollars in Venezuela's assets.

He blamed the economic sanctions imposed by the US against Venezuela for the severe food and medicine shortages in his country.

Humm ... talks.
"Imagine your loved ones conquered by Napoleon and forced to live under French rule. Do you want them to eat that rich food and those heavy sauces? Do you want them to have soufflé every meal and croissant?"
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Re:

15 Feb 2019 12:43

aphronesis wrote:@hitch,

Which crazies? Show me.

Calling people crazies before the fact seems a little dismissive. No interest in hearing them out. That sort of thing.


I call them crazies precisely because I do hear them out and know what they are saying.

Don't get the problem. Is calling a group of people "crazy" wrong? Maybe its a "micro aggression"?
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15 Feb 2019 12:48

we know who the real pig here is
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Re: Re:

15 Feb 2019 13:07

The Hitch wrote:
aphronesis wrote:@hitch,

Which crazies? Show me.

Calling people crazies before the fact seems a little dismissive. No interest in hearing them out. That sort of thing.


I call them crazies precisely because I do hear them out and know what they are saying.

Don't get the problem. Is calling a group of people "crazy" wrong? Maybe its a "micro aggression"?


It’s simplistic and lazy and reproduces of the divisive behavior you claim to oppose. Especially as you haven’t produced any with this reference. But I doubt you care about that as much as having something just to argue against.

Good to see the hard hitters from the gallery make an appearance though.
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15 Feb 2019 13:40

I'm beginning to think the Hitch is just a big bag full of clichés, guised as heterodoxy. Talking of big bag fulls, maybe he is an Incel? Might explain the boner for Peterson and all the frustration and anger.

Anyway:

How the US has hidden its empire

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/15/the-us-hidden-empire-overseas-territories-united-states-guam-puerto-rico-american-samoa?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
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15 Feb 2019 14:55

This is behind a paywall, but I think I posted it a few years ago. It’s a bit more severe.

https://newleftreview.org/II/83/perry-anderson-imperium
aphronesis
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15 Feb 2019 15:57

As Trump pushes is towards another Imperialist war(s) we need to impeach. No other option. He must be handcuffed using all available resources,that will probably sink any real hope for democrats,but we can't sit and pray that the American democratic process works.
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Re: Re:

15 Feb 2019 15:58

aphronesis wrote:
The Hitch wrote:
aphronesis wrote:@hitch,

Which crazies? Show me.

Calling people crazies before the fact seems a little dismissive. No interest in hearing them out. That sort of thing.


I call them crazies precisely because I do hear them out and know what they are saying.

Don't get the problem. Is calling a group of people "crazy" wrong? Maybe its a "micro aggression"?


It’s simplistic and lazy and reproduces of the divisive behavior you claim to oppose. Especially as you haven’t produced any with this reference. But I doubt you care about that as much as having something just to argue against.

Good to see the hard hitters from the gallery make an appearance though.


hmmm, lets see if it works from the other angle.

If I said. "Trump is crazy"
My friend, would you still, say, with such high zest
that, "this is divisive"?

Anyway, I'm not really calling any specific person crazy. Apart from bindi i'm just using it as a general term to vaguely cover unidentified people .

The people, who, generally speaking, have no intetrest in hearing someone out, once they have superficially identified a person as an enemy, no interest in argument. Who play dirty, who throw labels like fascism at people they know have nothing to do with fascism, to score points.

These people are crazy, and worse. And I'm not against division. Some people are bad. I just give everyone a chance, regardless of where they were born or who they are. Even disagreement is fine wit me, so long as you play fair.

A luxury those I consider "crazy" tend not to afford those they don't like.
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