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15 Feb 2019 16:08

Yawn. Who’s talking fascism? That was covered. Apparently only people who grew up in the shadow of fascism can make pronouncements on it. Their “authenticity” is more important than what’s actually happening.

Re. Trump: depends who you say it to. And he’s not a group. I personally haven’t spent 10 minutes thinking about him since the election.

True, I do have time to kill, but I can do more with it than entertain speech act fallacies. It seems your animus with macbindle is a moving target, but it’s clouding your already questionable ability to make useful political arguments.
I’d like to expect more, but it’s growing difficult.
aphronesis
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Re: Re:

16 Feb 2019 04:26



Aphro has many great posts, references to further reading that are often enjoyable and enlightening..none of these links fit any of his finest ..
Democratic head hunters are not going to freely roam the streets harvesting 70-90% tax cash from the rich they are hunting to plunder ..
The political and economic infrastructure that has most energy industry part of everything in America will not be tossed ..on a do over that AOC has suggested.
Oil is power period.
Get in its way you will get crushed,that's not an opinion. The fossil fuel folks are not to be phukt, with..

So still wondering what the net net is on Amazon? So allowing Amazon a ticker tape reception was too much for the NYC sub set in Long Island City?really? There is something important culturally or otherwise to persevere in LIC?
laughable for sure..so America can learn what from NYC's rejection of Amazon? What?
Amazon and NYC don't represent anything in normal America..people getting paid @$100-200,000 dollars a year are not sprinkled throughout the country..love to see a silent movie of a $150000 dollars a year code genius in Huntington W Virginia or rural Mississippi or Alabama..you think he or she would just blend in with the locals?
99% of American communities would welcome Amazon..NYC..LIC specifically are fringe..

So most of AOC's to do list is super cool!! Flying cars!! Free school and health care!!!don't forget good affordable, widely available housing for all regardless of income,race or location!!!and it will all be super easy by accessing the bank accounts of millionaires..when she comes for their money, there will be no fighting,all the millionaires will compliment her and help her in every way to get the money.

AOC may want to schedule a lunch w Dckhead Donald and compare accomplishments..maybe they will get fair and equal treatment for gays,women and DACA folks..Cortez and Trump are pretty different..her stuff needs review, get out of committee,get support to move on, get Trump to sign it.
Trump just signs an executive order
Unchained
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16 Feb 2019 04:40

"I'm declaring a national emergency even though there is no national emergency." Yep, good stuff there...
jmdirt
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Re: Re:

16 Feb 2019 05:06

Unchained wrote:


Aphro has many great posts, references to further reading that are often enjoyable and enlightening..none of these links fit any of his finest ..
Democratic head hunters are not going to freely roam the streets harvesting 70-90% tax cash from the rich they are hunting to plunder ..
The political and economic infrastructure that has most energy industry part of everything in America will not be tossed ..on a do over that AOC has suggested.
Oil is power period.
Get in its way you will get crushed,that's not an opinion. The fossil fuel folks are not to be phukt, with..

So still wondering what the net net is on Amazon? So allowing Amazon a ticker tape reception was too much for the NYC sub set in Long Island City?really? There is something important culturally or otherwise to persevere in LIC?
laughable for sure..so America can learn what from NYC's rejection of Amazon? What?
Amazon and NYC don't represent anything in normal America..people getting paid @$100-200,000 dollars a year are not sprinkled throughout the country..love to see a silent movie of a $150000 dollars a year code genius in Huntington W Virginia or rural Mississippi or Alabama..you think he or she would just blend in with the locals?
99% of American communities would welcome Amazon..NYC..LIC specifically are fringe..

So most of AOC's to do list is super cool!! Flying cars!! Free school and health care!!!don't forget good affordable, widely available housing for all regardless of income,race or location!!!and it will all be super easy by accessing the bank accounts of millionaires..when she comes for their money, there will be no fighting,all the millionaires will compliment her and help her in every way to get the money.

AOC may want to schedule a lunch w Dckhead Donald and compare accomplishments..maybe they will get fair and equal treatment for gays,women and DACA folks..Cortez and Trump are pretty different..her stuff needs review, get out of committee,get support to move on, get Trump to sign it.
Trump just signs an executive order


So if I understand this correctly you’d rather be indentured to your govt. for benefits because you went and fought a country that had nothing to do with you than you woud stand up and non violently fight petrol companies that are making your country and the world worse off?

Let me know what’s inaccurate.
aphronesis
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Re:

16 Feb 2019 05:26

jmdirt wrote:"I'm declaring a national emergency even though there is no national emergency." Yep, good stuff there...



How much longer do we have to live in the Twilight Zone?
User avatar Koronin
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16 Feb 2019 05:31

As long as you choose to. Not being passive might be a start.

Stop idolizing Val and find his energy in civic activism. Or don’t. And wonder about uncertain futures.
aphronesis
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Re:

16 Feb 2019 05:47

aphronesis wrote:As long as you choose to. Not being passive might be a start.

Stop idolizing Val and find his energy in civic activism. Or don’t. And wonder about uncertain futures.


I have gotten involved locally. First got involved in2016. Unfortunately live in a fairly conservative (and military) area of the state. However, in the mid terms the area south of us did flip several state House/Senate seats that helped break the Super Majority of the state. Unfortunately we still have a very gerrymandered map, which was ruled illegal by the courts.
User avatar Koronin
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16 Feb 2019 05:53

That’s great. I guess the rest takes harder protest. Or, as some boomers tell me until they die.
aphronesis
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16 Feb 2019 06:01

There's the perception/reality gap over US wealth inequality. Here is a nice visualisation:

https://youtu.be/QPKKQnijnsM

*This study found that US citizens, regardless of political affiliation, massively underestimate wealth inequality in the US and would prefer a far more egalitarian distribution of wealth.

*Norton, M.I.; Ariely, D. (2011). "Building a Better America – One Wealth Quintile at a Time". Perspectives on Psychological Science. 6: 9–12.

etc etc etc etc etc.

Probably better that people focused on the real issues like immigration though, eh. MAGA....bring back the wealth.

Oh.
Last edited by macbindle on 16 Feb 2019 06:26, edited 2 times in total.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
User avatar macbindle
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Re:

16 Feb 2019 06:04

aphronesis wrote:That’s great. I guess the rest takes harder protest. Or, as some boomers tell me until they die.



Also figure out how to get more of the younger people to realize voting is important. I think in 2018 some strides were made in that regard.
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16 Feb 2019 06:11

I’d say it’s far beyond voting. Hillary in office now wouldn’t change anything in the greater scheme.
aphronesis
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Re:

16 Feb 2019 06:19

aphronesis wrote:I’d say it’s far beyond voting. Hillary in office now wouldn’t change anything in the greater scheme.


I think getting younger people voting might also lead to more of them getting involved in other aspects as well. It does appear that has happened at least in some areas of the country.

Hillary wouldn't have been the disaster this moron is, but then again neither would pretty much anyone one else that ran last time.
User avatar Koronin
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16 Feb 2019 09:00

The socialists are coming, the socialists are coming! Look out you might be next! Geezus ...
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/fabiola-santiago/article226266035.html
President Donald Trump is making another one of his pricey, taxpayer-funded trips to his Mar-a-Lago estate this weekend. And, lucky us, he’ll be in Miami for Presidents’ Day.

If you believe the rhetoric, he’ll be here for Venezuela — to dislodge that scoundrel Nicolás Maduro with a speech from the podium at Florida International University. If you believe his supporters, the president is here to support and embolden interim president Juan Guaidó, whose life is on the line every day that he calls for free, verified elections in his country.

But if Trump’s ultimate goal were to influence a positive outcome in Venezuela, he’d be in Washington or abroad carrying out some serious diplomacy behind the scenes, perhaps with his friends Vladimir Putin and China’s Xi Jinping, who support Maduro. His strategy, instead of cranking up a friendly Miami audience, might be to engage in the tough work of convincing complicit third parties to persuade Maduro and his staunch military enablers to leave Venezuela.
...
But Trump is already campaigning for re-election in 2020 — and Venezuela is his winning ticket in Florida. It’s Trump first, not Venezuela first.

All those independent voters who lost thousands of dollars from their 401(k)s to the plunges in the stock market brought on by his little trade wars, all those taxpayers now learning that they can’t take deductions — thanks to Trump and the GOP’s tax plan for the wealthy to pay less — need a huge new fear to embrace.

And, as he did with Mexican immigrants and the wall, Trump has found a new trigger point to peddle in the Venezuela example. He revealed it in a neat, rousing patriotic package during the State of the Union address: socialism as the new boogeyman from which Trump will save us.

Trump has to win Florida again to be re-elected — and the anti-socialism formula works marvelously well in this state as political campaign strategy.

The socialists-are-coming message helped Gov. Ron DeSantis win the Florida governorship — and sent his loathed predecessor, Rick Scott, to the U.S. Senate in midterm elections with such razor-thin margins that ballots had to be recounted. DeSantis launched the socialism message early in his campaign by attacking Ocasio-Cortez. He was setting up the narrative. It was the beginning point of painting his opponent, Tallahassee Mayor Andrew Gillum, who wasn’t one by any stretch of the imagination, as a socialist and a communist.

I watched the strategy be put to work on the ground from the microcosm of my suburban Miami precinct, where a Republican campaign poll worker handed out cards to voters, day in and day out during early voting, warning: “We can’t allow what happened in Cuba and Venezuela to happen in this country!”
"Imagine your loved ones conquered by Napoleon and forced to live under French rule. Do you want them to eat that rich food and those heavy sauces? Do you want them to have soufflé every meal and croissant?"
User avatar Robert5091
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Re: Re:

16 Feb 2019 12:50

Koronin wrote:
aphronesis wrote:I’d say it’s far beyond voting. Hillary in office now wouldn’t change anything in the greater scheme.


I think getting younger people voting might also lead to more of them getting involved in other aspects as well. It does appear that has happened at least in some areas of the country.

Hillary wouldn't have been the disaster this moron is, but then again neither would pretty much anyone one else that ran last time.


People didn’t want to vote for Hillary. Or the others. Voting is not enough. If you and many can’t begin to understand that, nothing will change.

Stop blaming him. Or voters. All the elements of the disaster were already in place.
aphronesis
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Re:

16 Feb 2019 15:33

aphronesis wrote:As long as you choose to. Not being passive might be a start.

Stop idolizing Val and find his energy in civic activism. Or don’t. And wonder about uncertain futures.

Yes, if we weren't so passive dt wouldn't be who he is. :rolleyes:
jmdirt
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Re: Re:

16 Feb 2019 15:36

aphronesis wrote:
Koronin wrote:
aphronesis wrote:I’d say it’s far beyond voting. Hillary in office now wouldn’t change anything in the greater scheme.


I think getting younger people voting might also lead to more of them getting involved in other aspects as well. It does appear that has happened at least in some areas of the country.

Hillary wouldn't have been the disaster this moron is, but then again neither would pretty much anyone one else that ran last time.


People didn’t want to vote for Hillary. Or the others. Voting is not enough. If you and many can’t begin to understand that, nothing will change.

Stop blaming him. Or voters. All the elements of the disaster were already in place.

Nice rhetoric...

EDIT: granted we can talk about the broken system all day, but the only way to make any change is to change the people in the system*. I know that you said "voting is not enough", but its a start. Sure some of the elements were in place, but can you honestly say that ANY of the other candidates would be like dt?

*It is difficult to find people, especially at the national level, who really want to change the system because the system works really well for politicians and their friends.
jmdirt
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Re: Re:

16 Feb 2019 17:13

jmdirt wrote:
aphronesis wrote:
Koronin wrote:
aphronesis wrote:I’d say it’s far beyond voting. Hillary in office now wouldn’t change anything in the greater scheme.


I think getting younger people voting might also lead to more of them getting involved in other aspects as well. It does appear that has happened at least in some areas of the country.

Hillary wouldn't have been the disaster this moron is, but then again neither would pretty much anyone one else that ran last time.


People didn’t want to vote for Hillary. Or the others. Voting is not enough. If you and many can’t begin to understand that, nothing will change.

Stop blaming him. Or voters. All the elements of the disaster were already in place.

Nice rhetoric...

EDIT: granted we can talk about the broken system all day, but the only way to make any change is to change the people in the system*. I know that you said "voting is not enough", but its a start. Sure some of the elements were in place, but can you honestly say that ANY of the other candidates would be like dt?

*It is difficult to find people, especially at the national level, who really want to change the system because the system works really well for politicians and their friends.



This.


Anyone else would NOT be close to the current disaster. It's a fact that not nearly as many people vote in the primaries. There were plenty of OTHER candidates in the GOP primary that would not have been the complete disaster we currently have.
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16 Feb 2019 17:26

Aphro.your points are valid to a degree. As a young man I had different priorities and perspectives. When Pepperdine told me to pack my stuff and leave I did. I went to find out if my desire to go to school and my admitted limited pot smoking would disqualify me from military service and obtaining a diploma.
Both the Navy and Army said "hell yes". After consulting with my grandfather(ex Navy) and my uncle(an Army officer serving in the Panama Canal zone) I found myself in the Navy.
Any assertion you think you see about my uber patriotism is misplaced. I took the Navy route because it was the easiest and the cheapest.
I didn't know then that the military industrial complex was real and included all US petroleum interests. That discovery took many years after waking from hangovers all over the world.
I find some of your implied ideology a little bit defeatist. Yes I am against big oil,but I still use combustion engines daily..often on land and sea.
I enjoy flying rather than riding horseback to go skiing or see the Tour DFrance..
I also want to be picked up in an ambulance w a V8 vs a pedicab..I want the same for you and my friends and family. I also want petroleum powered fire trucks to respond until a greener, as effective form of power comes online.
So it looks like I will probably be in bed, in servitude to big oil from birth to death. If Elon Musk can't solve the problem..I sure as hell can't..
My defeatist comments are based on what I assume as a sense of disappointment in people like me that are filling up Yamahas and BMW's w the liquid of an evil empire because I am too lazy to get..or invent or imagine an alternative..
Sorry..
*I have ridden(short test drives) 2 electric motorcycles. Absolutely fantastic!!!
If I can figure out how to ride one from N.Baja to Cape Cod on one for vacation I will. Keep you updated
Unchained
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16 Feb 2019 23:02

I revel in the disaster that he is if it forces people out of their passivity.


@dirt, it’s more than rhetoric: changing the people and the system means changing the discourse of what people take as normative and possible, not just changing the people in the system. I put this stuff out there and kids run with it. You want to just go vote. Go vote. Why discuss at all then. Your part is finished.

The above arguments have been being made by complacent democrats since the 80s. How many decades do you need.
aphronesis
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Re:

16 Feb 2019 23:18

aphronesis wrote:I revel in the disaster that he is if it forces people out of their passivity.


@dirt, it’s more than rhetoric: changing the people and the system means changing the discourse of what people take as normative and possible, not just changing the people in the system. I put this stuff out there and kids run with it. You want to just go vote. Go vote. Why discuss at all then. Your part is finished.

The above arguments have been being made by complacent democrats since the 80s. How many decades do you need.

That's a bit circular isn't it? If you vote for people who (promise) to make the change that you want, they (might) change the system to work more like you want. I would also assert that you can't change the system if you don't change the people...you have to vote to do that. I think that we agree that voting isn't the 'only' action, but it is the end action. Are you implying that it is possible to make real change without voting?
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