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Mixed Martial Arts

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29 Jul 2017 19:04

Great card tonight, but I'm not sure I'm in the mood to sit at a bar for four hours with an MMA crowd.

Cormier vs. Jones-- I'm not sure how to pick this one. Jones is much longer, and has more weapons, but DC can smother him. I'd like one of them to take it out of the judges' hands (I prefer that with every fight).

Woodly vs. Maia-- Woodly will likely win. He's better overall, plus Maia had a really quick turn around and short camp which doesn't usually work unless you are a superior fighter. That said Maia can grapple like no other so...

Justino vs. Evinger-- Justino will likely win. She will be 10ish pound heavier in the ring, and she punches hard. Evinger has to grapple, that's her only chance to push the fight out.

EDIT: I decided not to go watch the fights. I was just able to watch the Cormier vs. Jones fight though, and that was a good fight with good action. I would have liked them to go two more rounds, but finish the same way. Hopefully I'll see the other two fights soon.

EDIT 2: Justino was clearly bigger and stronger, and controlled the fight. It was better than most expected, and Evinger is better than what she showed. I'd like to see a rematch after Evinger has some time to be 145.
jmdirt
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31 Jul 2017 18:35

Jon Jones next bout reportedly will be against Brock Lesnar. Apparently those two really don't like each other. They should bill it as "the Battle of the 'Roiders." It should be entertaining, if for no other reason than Lesnar's walking-around weight is 5 stone (34 kilos) the heavier. Jones historically fares less well against fighters he doesn't tower over, and he's only got half a centimeter on Lesnar. And Lesnar's biceps are bigger around than Jones' thighs. Even Mark Hunt was shocked how powerful Lesnar was.

Cyborg will kill the UFC's women's division. It's ridiculously obvious she's chemically-enhanced. De Randamie won't be the last woman fighter who will refuse to get into the cage with her. Bellator is already getting rich from the UFC's cast-offs and Cyborg will cause a refugee crisis for Scott Corker.
User avatar StyrbjornSterki
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Re:

31 Jul 2017 19:10

StyrbjornSterki wrote:Jon Jones next bout reportedly will be against Brock Lesnar. Apparently those two really don't like each other. They should bill it as "the Battle of the 'Roiders." It should be entertaining, if for no other reason than Lesnar's walking-around weight is 5 stone (34 kilos) the heavier. Jones historically fares less well against fighters he doesn't tower over, and he's only got half a centimeter on Lesnar. And Lesnar's biceps are bigger around than Jones' thighs. Even Mark Hunt was shocked how powerful Lesnar was.

Cyborg will kill the UFC's women's division. It's ridiculously obvious she's chemically-enhanced. De Randamie won't be the last woman fighter who will refuse to get into the cage with her. Bellator is already getting rich from the UFC's cast-offs and Cyborg will cause a refugee crisis for Scott Corker.

Jones kind of deflected questions about BL until after the fight when he called him out. What will BL weigh, 245-260? Can he get back through the USADA protocol by next spring? I wonder how big JJ will go, 225?

Even if CJ is clean now, there just aren't very many athletic woman her size so who is going to give her a real fight? I think that five years ago RR vs. CJ would have been a good fight. Like I said though, I would like to see CE take some time to be 145, and then get another shot.
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01 Aug 2017 22:39

I don't recall Lesnar ever weighing in an ounce under 265. Come Boxing Day, I'll wager he's within a biscuit of 300 lbs. IIRC he was 285 when he went to the try-outs for American professional football and still ran a 4.7 sec. 40-yard dash. He is one very large and very speedy side of boeuf.

Jones could binge on scones with clotted cream and wash it down with Tuborg from now until the fight and still not make 250. But I can't imagine he would bulk up much for fear it slowing him down.
User avatar StyrbjornSterki
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Re:

01 Aug 2017 23:39

StyrbjornSterki wrote:I don't recall Lesnar ever weighing in an ounce under 265. Come Boxing Day, I'll wager he's within a biscuit of 300 lbs. IIRC he was 285 when he went to the try-outs for American professional football and still ran a 4.7 sec. 40-yard dash. He is one very large and very speedy side of boeuf.

Jones could binge on scones with clotted cream and wash it down with Tuborg from now until the fight and still not make 250. But I can't imagine he would bulk up much for fear it slowing him down.

I'll save the Goog-search, but I think that BL was sub 250 in college. :) If he's 280 vs JJ at 230...whsu, JJ is good, but 50 lbs is a lot to give up, and that's assuming that JJ even gets to 230. I guess we'll have to wait and see how the USADA stuff goes...
jmdirt
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02 Aug 2017 14:45

So MMA is going to start to be defined by freak show, novelty fights?
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Re:

02 Aug 2017 18:45

King Boonen wrote:So MMA is going to start to be defined by freak show, novelty fights?

Well, the card last weekend was great, but if you mean JJ vs BL, JJ will fight twice before he sees BL, if it might happen maybe. IF it does happen, would one fight 'define' UFC?
jmdirt
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Re:

02 Aug 2017 20:36

King Boonen wrote:So MMA is going to start to be defined by freak show, novelty fights?

Japanese MMA and Kickboxing always got the highest ratings with freakshow fights and the James Toney vs Randy Couture fight already happened in 2010, so it's nothing new.
The fake trash talking, scriped drama and press conference brawls and the other pro wrestling bs is much worse, I can't stand that kind oof stuff.
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03 Aug 2017 17:35

In the early days MMA was often a freak show. Look at some of the first UFC's, then know many of the early rival organizations were less legit.

As to Lesnar, I can't see why he would want to leave WWE, unless he knew the + test would somehow vanish, UFC would pay him a heap to take on Jones, and he knew he could get fit enough to negate any speed Jones may have. I don't really watch the WWE, but what I have seen of Lesnar he looks kind of happy and fat of late. Maybe not really fat, but he's carrying extra weight, and seemed to enjoy himself at Wrestlemania "beating" Goldberg in a match that contained maybe the closest thing to actual physical wrestling going back to the days of Lou Thesz. Why would he want to leave that? Though there's also the chance WWE may want to write him out of his title, or down the cards though. Who knows what that contract is like.
User avatar Alpe d'Huez
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06 Aug 2017 17:48

....going for the gold...

Cheers
User avatar blutto
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23 Aug 2017 00:46

Well I guess the Jones/Lesnar fight is on the back-burner...
snccdcno
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25 Aug 2017 03:18

Jones tested positive again!
jmdirt
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Re: Mixed Martial Arts

14 Sep 2017 21:04

Jone's 'B' sample was positive as well (surprise!). The result of the Cormier fight was changed to NC and Cormier was restored to UFC LHW champion. Scuttlebutt is Jones will contest the result on the basis that the blood taken at the same time as the urine that was positive, plus an additional urine sample taken later, all were negative. This was an old school AAS (think: Jan Ullrich and GDR cycling) with a detectable period of 60 days. I can't envision this defence getting any traction since it puts USADA in the position of having to defend the validity of negative results, and as we saw with the FLandis case, the testing process is fair unassailable. Plus, the apparent discrepancies might be the result of Jones' failure to strictly adhere to the adulterant/masking protocols.

On the one hand I find this a terrible sports tragedy (think: Mike Tyson meets Don King) because Jones obviously is a phenom and a very rare talent. He's a heavyweight above the waist, a budgie below the waist, has the wingspan of an Andean condor, has cardio for days, and he invents positively mental but crazy-effective techniques on the fly.

But on the other hand, it's pretty clear from the drama that swirls around his private life that he has a tendency to self-destruction.

I don't doubt that UFC is awash in PEDs but there's no one else in the sport right now who can match Jones' cornucopia of suspicious circumstances. His T/E ratio consistently is inhumanly low, <1:1, which Victor Conte remarked two years ago merited investigating to discover the cause of. There was the incident when multiple witnesses confirmed that Jones hid under the cage at his gym when the USADA men showed up unannounced. And when they pulled up a chair and waited all day for Jones' "return," Jones stayed in hiding, even peeing himself rather than give himself up. So he dodged charges of evading a test, which carries the same penalty as failing it.

Then there was the cocaine positive he skated on because WADA later claimed the control was irregular because they had no charter to test for recreational drugs (after which Jones self-admitted to a residential rehab program ...for one night). And there was marijuana residue on a pipe he left in the car he abandoned after the hit-and-run automobile accident when he ran a stoplight (an incident which saw him stripped of title and temporarily suspended by UFC).

Last year he tested positive for clomiphene and letrozole, both "post-cycle therapy" drugs, PEDs used to jump-start production of natural testosterone at the end of a steroid "cycle." He claimed the positive must have come from contaminated male virility pills, and USADA testing confirmed that the brand of pills he was taking, which were generic forms of the pharmaceutical Cialis, were in fact contaminated with clomiphene and letrozole. USADA reduced his punishment from two years to one on the basis that he was only cheating accidentally, but he still was responsible for everything he put into his body.

An incident which begs the question, how could he have been so certain those pills were the source, unless either, A. He already knew those pills were contaminated with the same drugs he was taking on PCT, or, B. He had hired a lab to test and confirm. And if B., why did he never offer that evidence to USADA, the UFC or the press? And at the risk of sounding the conspiracy anorak, can you not see the increased market potential from adding just enough of these "contaminants" to your product to trigger a positive test, yet in amounts still too minuscule to risk them being labeled "tainted" by the pharma authorities? It would be a veritable get-out-of-jail-free card for any doped athlete needing to cycle off the 'roids before a competition. You don't buy them to take them, you buy them to claim you took them if/when you get popped. I don't think anyone ever endeavoured to prove he had taken the pills, the punishment was mitigated based entirely on his claim that he had taken them.

And now this. How could he not take every possible precaution to assure coming up clean on this, his return fight coming off a one-year PEDs suspension? I think you have to conclude that Jones believes himself teflon-coated, that the rules are for other people, both outside the ring and in, e.g., the eye-poking, the questionable knee kicks, and not to forget he once was DQed for illegal elbows. He is known not to play well with others, and he runs with scissors. I hope they come down hard on him for this because I think from this point forward, the sport is better off without him.
User avatar StyrbjornSterki
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Re: Mixed Martial Arts

15 Sep 2017 03:08

StyrbjornSterki wrote:Jone's 'B' sample was positive as well (surprise!). The result of the Cormier fight was changed to NC and Cormier was restored to UFC LHW champion. Scuttlebutt is Jones will contest the result on the basis that the blood taken at the same time as the urine that was positive, plus an additional urine sample taken later, all were negative. This was an old school AAS (think: Jan Ullrich and GDR cycling) with a detectable period of 60 days. I can't envision this defence getting any traction since it puts USADA in the position of having to defend the validity of negative results, and as we saw with the FLandis case, the testing process is fair unassailable. Plus, the apparent discrepancies might be the result of Jones' failure to strictly adhere to the adulterant/masking protocols.

On the one hand I find this a terrible sports tragedy (think: Mike Tyson meets Don King) because Jones obviously is a phenom and a very rare talent. He's a heavyweight above the waist, a budgie below the waist, has the wingspan of an Andean condor, has cardio for days, and he invents positively mental but crazy-effective techniques on the fly.

But on the other hand, it's pretty clear from the drama that swirls around his private life that he has a tendency to self-destruction.

I don't doubt that UFC is awash in PEDs but there's no one else in the sport right now who can match Jones' cornucopia of suspicious circumstances. His T/E ratio consistently is inhumanly low, <1:1, which Victor Conte remarked two years ago merited investigating to discover the cause of. There was the incident when multiple witnesses confirmed that Jones hid under the cage at his gym when the USADA men showed up unannounced. And when they pulled up a chair and waited all day for Jones' "return," Jones stayed in hiding, even peeing himself rather than give himself up. So he dodged charges of evading a test, which carries the same penalty as failing it.

Then there was the cocaine positive he skated on because WADA later claimed the control was irregular because they had no charter to test for recreational drugs (after which Jones self-admitted to a residential rehab program ...for one night). And there was marijuana residue on a pipe he left in the car he abandoned after the hit-and-run automobile accident when he ran a stoplight (an incident which saw him stripped of title and temporarily suspended by UFC).

Last year he tested positive for clomiphene and letrozole, both "post-cycle therapy" drugs, PEDs used to jump-start production of natural testosterone at the end of a steroid "cycle." He claimed the positive must have come from contaminated male virility pills, and USADA testing confirmed that the brand of pills he was taking, which were generic forms of the pharmaceutical Cialis, were in fact contaminated with clomiphene and letrozole. USADA reduced his punishment from two years to one on the basis that he was only cheating accidentally, but he still was responsible for everything he put into his body.

An incident which begs the question, how could he have been so certain those pills were the source, unless either, A. He already knew those pills were contaminated with the same drugs he was taking on PCT, or, B. He had hired a lab to test and confirm. And if B., why did he never offer that evidence to USADA, the UFC or the press? And at the risk of sounding the conspiracy anorak, can you not see the increased market potential from adding just enough of these "contaminants" to your product to trigger a positive test, yet in amounts still too minuscule to risk them being labeled "tainted" by the pharma authorities? It would be a veritable get-out-of-jail-free card for any doped athlete needing to cycle off the 'roids before a competition. You don't buy them to take them, you buy them to claim you took them if/when you get popped. I don't think anyone ever endeavoured to prove he had taken the pills, the punishment was mitigated based entirely on his claim that he had taken them.

And now this. How could he not take every possible precaution to assure coming up clean on this, his return fight coming off a one-year PEDs suspension? I think you have to conclude that Jones believes himself teflon-coated, that the rules are for other people, both outside the ring and in, e.g., the eye-poking, the questionable knee kicks, and not to forget he once was DQed for illegal elbows. He is known not to play well with others, and he runs with scissors. I hope they come down hard on him for this because I think from this point forward, the sport is better off without him.

I compare your praise of JJ to how people praised Vino's racing style. You can't praise either because they were the result of doping. JJ isn't a phenom without juice. But as you also stated, MMA is probably loaded with dope.
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