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Re:

26 Jun 2017 19:06

Merckx index wrote:Alpe, yes, some disgust did come across in your earlier post, which is why your position on Tebow is puzzling to me. Because you also said that you “have no problem with...teams giving him a shot”.

Oh my! I meant the shot he was already given at the lowest level he has been playing. I did not mean with the MLB Mets! He thus was given a shot already, and pretty much failed from what I can tell. I would not give him a promotion for that like he got. Sorry for that confusion!

You bring up one other excellent point. If Tebow were really of the same fiber as the lord he prays to, would he not then state that he does not deserve to be promoted over the many players at his level playing better than he is? Can he be so over confident to think that he'll actually play well at a higher level of competition? Or is it, like the Mets, he doesn't really care, and it's all about exposure, and thus, money? That really is a good question.
User avatar Alpe d'Huez
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Re: Re:

26 Jun 2017 20:21

Alpe d'Huez wrote:Oh my! I meant the shot he was already given at the lowest level he has been playing. I did not mean with the MLB Mets! He thus was given a shot already, and pretty much failed from what I can tell. I would not give him a promotion for that like he got. Sorry for that confusion!


Fair enough. But it’s questionable whether he even deserved the shot at low A ball. JM apparently thinks that Matt Leinart, Heisman winner and member of a national championship team, would have been given the same opportunity. I don't think so. What would happen if Leinart, around age 30, decided he wanted to play pro baseball, on the basis of two years of HS play?

For starters, he couldn’t have his agent invite scouts from every MLB team to attend a work-out, the way Tebow did. Why not? Because they would have laughed. Millions of guys play baseball in HS, some of them very well, what makes Leinart so special? That he was a great football player in college? Come on. There’s very little overlap in the skill set. There have been a few athletes at an elite or near-elite level in both sports, but they’re not that common. And of course the few that made it big in both sports, like Bo Jackson and Deion Sanders, played in college, and weren’t away from the game for a prolonged period of time. They received a lot of attention precisely because it is so rare for someone to be highly skilled in both sports.

Maybe Leinart could have finagled a try-out with some minor league team. But if he had displayed the same level of skills that Tebow did, I doubt he would have gotten a roster spot. Scouts were almost universal in dissing Tebow at his public try-out. Some gave him credit for being better than one would expect after not playing for more than ten years, but none I’m aware of thought he had a serious chance of making it to the majors. Maybe they thought he could play decently at a low level in the minors, but you don’t recruit players on that basis. I believe a majority of players drafted now have played in college, and the ones that haven’t at least have played more than two years in HS, not to mention are currently active.

You bring up one other excellent point. If Tebow were really of the same fiber as the lord he prays to, would he not then state that he does not deserve to be promoted over the many players at his level playing better than he is? Can he be so over confident to think that he'll actually play well at a higher level of competition? Or is it, like the Mets, he doesn't really care, and it's all about exposure, and thus, money? That really is a good question.


Many people have suggested Tebow could have made it in the NFL as a RB or TE. I think we can all agree his chances at that would be better than playing MLB. So why didn’t he try?

I think it’s because he doesn’t want to be second banana. QB is the most important position in football, usually (though not always) the team leader, and Tebow had his sights set on that. When that didn’t work out, he turned to baseball where, if he somehow turned out to be a great hitter, he could be the leader, the star, for that team.

Why this obsession with being the main man? Let me give Tebow the benefit of the doubt here. Let’s assume he really doesn’t care at all about money and fame as it applies to himself. He wants to be famous solely because it will increase his platform from which to spread the gospel. The more successful and famous he is, the further his message will spread. I don’t think this is the entire story, but I’m willing to concede it is a major aspect that motivates him.

This is a very conventional approach, that people have used in all walks of life to spread some message they’re passionate about, but as applied to religion, I think it’s dead wrong. Most of us are influenced not so much by words as by example. Tim Tebow, the hypothetical second coming of Tom Brady, might tell people that he’s motivated by God and the Bible, but the primary message people take home—whether they’re conscious of it or not—is that fame and success matter; people who are famous and successful are better, more important, in some very profound way than people who are not. After all, why are people paying so much more attention to a famous QB than someone with the same message who has accomplished nothing out of the ordinary?

This is, or used to be, profoundly antithetical to religion. Religion is not only not supposed to be about seeking success, in the materialistic, worldly sense, but on the contrary, about becoming indifferent to it. If you really want to spread your religious belief, you do it by example, and the best example you can possibly provide is one in which you don’t pursue fame or excessive (beyond satisfaction of your essential needs) materialism. Part of the reason for this is to avoid becoming a cult figure, or what used to be called a false idol (which Tebow obviously is), and part is because the original goal of religion—which seems to have been forgotten today—is to break attachments. You spurn wealth and fame not from some ascetic ideal, but because it’s the way to freedom, at least the most we mortal creatures can aspire to.

Edit: When Tebow was asked if he thought he deserved the promotion, he took the easy way out:

For me, it's not something I have to answer. There's a lot smarter, wiser people than me that make those decisions. I just try and show up and play hard every day.


And what did the Mets say?

"It's not like he's tearing up the league, but at the same time, all of the indications are positive in terms of various things we look at: chase rates and exit velocity," [GM Sandy] Alderson said. "The bottom line is the average isn't there, but he's improving."


Chase rates? His K-rate is almost 30%. If he's not swinging at pitches out of the zone, he either can't see or can't hit pitches in the zone.

Exit velocity? He has three HR. If his exit velocity is high, he must be hitting either way over or way under most pitches. (Some of the numbers back that up; > 60% of his balls in play are grounders, which is exceedingly high. His HR/FB rate is 12.5%, which is somewhat low. Assuming his exit velocity is good, he's getting under too many of those FB)

Improving? After one 16 game stretch when he was hitting really well, his numbers have gone way down again more recently.

It's certainly possible Tebow is a better hitter than his stats indicate, 60 games isn't a very large sample size, but not that much better. And after such a long layoff, he probably needs a lot more time to reach his potential. But the usual procedure is to master one level before taking on the next.

http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/news/tim-tebow-baseball-mets-promoted-video/niunclsm4gy41ka2v757qyqd8
Last edited by Merckx index on 26 Jun 2017 21:34, edited 1 time in total.
Merckx index
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Re: Re:

26 Jun 2017 21:29

Merckx index wrote:
Alpe d'Huez wrote:Oh my! I meant the shot he was already given at the lowest level he has been playing. I did not mean with the MLB Mets! He thus was given a shot already, and pretty much failed from what I can tell. I would not give him a promotion for that like he got. Sorry for that confusion!


Fair enough. But it’s questionable whether he even deserved the shot at low A ball. JM apparently thinks that Matt Leinart, Heisman winner and member of a national championship team, would have been given the same opportunity. I don't think so. What would happen if Leinart, around age 30, decided he wanted to play pro baseball, on the basis of two years of HS play?

For starters, he couldn’t have his agent invite scouts from every MLB team to attend a work-out, the way Tebow did. Why not? Because they would have laughed. Millions of guys play baseball in HS, some of them very well, what makes Leinart so special? That he was a great football player in college? Come on. There’s very little overlap in the skill set. There have been a few athletes at an elite or near-elite level in both sports, but they’re not that common. And of course the few that made it big in both sports, like Bo Jackson and Deion Sanders, played in college, and weren’t away from the game for a prolonged period of time. They received a lot of attention precisely because it is so rare for someone to be highly skilled in both sports.

Maybe Leinart could have finagled a try-out with some minor league team. But if he had displayed the same level of skills that Tebow did, I doubt he would have gotten a roster spot. Scouts were almost universal in dissing Tebow at his public try-out. Some gave him credit for being better than one would expect after not playing for more than ten years, but none I’m aware of thought he had a serious chance of making it to the majors. Maybe they thought he could play decently at a low level in the minors, but you don’t recruit players on that basis. I believe a majority of players drafted now have played in college, and the ones that haven’t at least have played more than two years in HS, not to mention are currently active.

You bring up one other excellent point. If Tebow were really of the same fiber as the lord he prays to, would he not then state that he does not deserve to be promoted over the many players at his level playing better than he is? Can he be so over confident to think that he'll actually play well at a higher level of competition? Or is it, like the Mets, he doesn't really care, and it's all about exposure, and thus, money? That really is a good question.


Many people have suggested Tebow could have made it in the NFL as a RB or TE. I think we can all agree his chances at that would be better than playing MLB. So why didn’t he try?

I think it’s because he doesn’t want to be second banana. QB is the most important position in football, usually (though not always) the team leader, and Tebow had his sights set on that. When that didn’t work out, he turned to baseball where, if he somehow turned out to be a great hitter, he could be the leader, the star, for that team.

Why this obsession with being the main man? Let me give Tebow the benefit of the doubt here. Let’s assume he really doesn’t care at all about money and fame as it applies to himself. He wants to be famous solely because it will increase his platform from which to spread the gospel. The more successful and famous he is, the further his message will spread. I don’t think this is the entire story, but I’m willing to concede it is a major aspect that motivates him.

This is a very conventional approach, that people have used in all walks of life to spread some message they’re passionate about, but as applied to religion, I think it’s dead wrong. Most of us are influenced not so much by words as by example. Tim Tebow, the hypothetical second coming of Tom Brady, might tell people that he’s motivated by God and the Bible, but the primary message people take home—whether they’re conscious of it or not—is that fame and success matter; people who are famous and successful are better, more important, in some very profound way than people who are not. After all, why are people paying so much more attention to a famous QB than someone with the same message who has accomplished nothing out of the ordinary?

This is, or used to be, profoundly antithetical to religion. Religion is not only not supposed to be about seeking success, in the materialistic, worldly sense, but on the contrary, about becoming indifferent to it. If you really want to spread your religious belief, you do it by example, and the best example you can possibly provide is one in which you don’t pursue fame or excessive (beyond satisfaction of your essential needs) materialism. Part of the reason for this is to avoid becoming a cult figure, or what used to be called a false idol (which Tebow obviously is), and part is because the original goal of religion—which seems to have been forgotten today—is to break attachments. You spurn wealth and fame not from some ascetic ideal, but because it’s the way to freedom, at least the most we mortal creatures can aspire to.

Edit: When Tebow was asked if he thought he deserved the promotion, he took the easy way out:

For me, it's not something I have to answer. There's a lot smarter, wiser people than me that make those decisions. I just try and show up and play hard every day.


And what did the Mets say?

"It's not like he's tearing up the league, but at the same time, all of the indications are positive in terms of various things we look at: chase rates and exit velocity," [GM Sandy] Alderson said. "The bottom line is the average isn't there, but he's improving."


Chase rates? His K-rate is almost 30%. If he's not swinging at pitches out of the zone, he either can't see or can't hit pitches in the zone.

Exit velocity? He has three HR. If his exit velocity is high, he must be hitting either way over or way under most pitches.

Improving? After one 16 game stretch when he was hitting really well, his numbers have gone way down again more recently.

What BS. It's certainly possible Tebow is a better hitter than his stats indicate, 60 games isn't a very large sample size, but not that much better.

http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/news/tim-tebow-baseball-mets-promoted-video/niunclsm4gy41ka2v757qyqd8

If that is why he's doing it, I just puked! :eek:
jmdirt
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28 Jun 2017 19:19

This popped into my head today while I was mindlessly sitting in traffic due to the lights being out in a major intersection.

My take is that you guys are "blaming" Tebow and/or the Mets. Its not their fault that the sheeple keep paying higher and higher ticket prices, buying merch, and paying higher and higher prices for sports cable packages. If TT's jersey wasn't the best selling one in the history of the minors, and if ticket sales hadn't skyrocketed, he wouldn't have gotten this latest promo. Even his shot with the Fireflies was driven in part by the fact that his tryout generated so much fan and media attention. With that being said, if people are entertained (for whatever reason) its good, and the only harm is that a guy who might have gotten a promotion didn't (TT might not have been promoted over another player, they might have moved him simply to generate interest and revenue).
jmdirt
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30 Oct 2017 12:53

The LA vs HOU (MLB) score almost matched the PIT vs DET (NFL) score. I was watching the NFL game, and at commercial breaks switching to the MLB game. I got to see a homer almost every time that I flipped over!
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