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Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

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Re: Re:

07 Mar 2017 11:39

python wrote:not only the classic style should thrive, they should also re-introduce it into the biathlon by creating an alternative competition discipline. Just as it was in the original format.
Agree.
the reasons for my position, besides the traditional proclivity, is that the proper and efficient classic style while quite dependent on on power and strength, requires more skill to master and at the end requires (and develops) higher VO2. that's everything an endurance sport is and should be about.

Dunno, but more likely disagree. I'd say for some is more complicated to master skating and for others classic style.
Kokoso
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Re: Re:

07 Mar 2017 11:59

Libertine Seguros wrote:It might also be a way to shake up the Nordic Combined, which has become a very repetitive sport since pretty much every race follows the same format over varying distances. Doing some races in Classic also might break up a bit of the German dominance, since classic has more traction in Scandinavia. An old interval-start ski race followed by the jump to break up the endless list of Gundersens would do wonders as well, given that the penalty race didn't really work, the relays have too few teams to make them worthwhile competitions and the team sprints are execrable.
There's individual race, team sprint and relay. As was said number of times regarding team sprint (but you don't seem to get it even when many told you) is that it's pesonal taste. No race has inherited value. You give the value. I would add that especially for nordic combined it's good format since smaller countries don't have enough athletes or decent enough athletes for relay thus team sprint is another chances for success and improves competition (that's valid for xc skiing to the lesser extent too). In Lahti there were eleven relay teams, that seems sufficient to me. You omit that what changes in Nordic combined is jump - you don't have this variable in xc skiing. I agree that interval ski race followed by jump would be nice.

But anyway, is having the same format necessarily bad thing? I mean, almost everybody here including you liked xc skiing most when there were only interval races and Gundersen here and there (and relay) and wants interval races and Gunderesen and nothing else in xc skiing - no sprints, no team sprints, no mass starts. So it surprises me to hear such words from you.
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Re: Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

07 Mar 2017 17:15

I wouldn't mind more 15k 2 jump races in NC.

2 per year is not enough.
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08 Mar 2017 06:08

Why isn't there a nordic combined biathlon? i'd love to see that.
Singer01
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08 Mar 2017 10:19

They should drop skiathlon in favour of far superior and more flexible two-legged pursuit format which was used before. It can be held either over two days or one, lenght and difficulty of both legs can vary depending on snow and track conditions. Also they can alternate which style is used on which leg over the season and between World Championships/Olympics. First leg individual race should be longer than the pursuit leg, to establish caps that require full on racing in second leg and minimize group rides and waiting games.Skiathlon have been the biggest failure of those new formats, it adds nothing new to the calender, just another mass start under a different name. When executed properly, a two-legged pursuit format is a much more attractive, intresting and TV-friendly than the skiathlon has been during its existance.

They should rotate 50k races in Worlds between mass and individual start and classic and skate style from championship to championship. Olympics 50k races and Holmenkollen 50k should always be individual start, with only style these are being skied in being alternated. Worlds should include one additional distance race (20k to women, 30 to men) which would be rotated between mass and individual start from championship to championship.
Nowhere has been said that an athlete must be able to participate and be competitive in every race there is. So an additional race days wouldn't make the championships drag on longer, instead it would force athletes and teams to make choices and pick their targets more carefully.

Agree with the notion that the use of skating skiiis should he prohibited in classic races.Obviously tougher courses for classic legs that make it unpractical to rely solely on double poling is another obvious solution. The latter though is dependent on weather conditions, which have been increasingly unreliable during last years.

Bringing back classic style into Nordic Combined and Biathlon would offer good variety and significantly different challenges for athletes. The downside is that it would drive up the costs of waxing, and skew the competition even more in favour of larger, richer teams (countries). It could be specially troublesome in a small and relatively poor sport like NC which is already being completely dominated by one country. Though the latter might be a good reason to try and mix it up anyway
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08 Mar 2017 13:26

just finished watching the drammen sprint qulas (thnk you, nrk)

the results are not dull. in the ladies, parma won. stina was in solid 4th just behind oestberg that seems to find her season-end form. interestingly the norge girls did not dominate at all with falla -surprisingly - just outside top 30.

in men, klaebo literally clobbered everyone. pun intended. gaining almost 4 sec on a runner up...and this was a 2.5 +/- min effort...ustiuogov was 'only' 10th. northug made it but just. pelle was the best non-norge in 5th. kriukov - out, hamilton- out, poltoranin -out...a couple of russian young-bloods - in. the best swede - peterson to comprise a total 3 swedes in the finals..

i did not see anyone using the double poling, though the conditions were posted as hard packed. not cold though.

klaebo is the likeliest winner...perhaps all 3 podiums to the norge boys. not likely the same in the ladies...
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08 Mar 2017 16:20

a little surprising to see klaebo bested by brandsdal after the huge gaps he inflicted on everyone in each of his heats..
the only non-norge in the final, ustiougov used a smart tactic and it gave him another podium. objectively, i don't think he could expect anything better today. not the right course, not his fave skating style, too many super motivated norwegians. i was relieved seeing petter outside the podium.

the ladies final could not have ended better - well, nothing against parma, but ingermarsdotter would have completed a nice 100% swedish podium. stina ruled and still rules. it was almost too easy after seeing her struggles in lahti.

once again, ustiougov continued his reputation of the norwegian upsetter.
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in foreign policy there are no eternal friendships or eternal enemies, only eternal interests
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08 Mar 2017 21:38

Python: There where zones where double poling wasn´t allowed... That´s why everybody had grip vaxing.
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Re:

08 Mar 2017 21:39

python wrote:a little surprising to see klaebo bested by brandsdal after the huge gaps he inflicted on everyone in each of his heats..
the only non-norge in the final, ustiougov used a smart tactic and it gave him another podium. objectively, i don't think he could expect anything better today. not the right course, not his fave skating style, too many super motivated norwegians. i was relieved seeing petter outside the podium.

the ladies final could not have ended better - well, nothing against parma, but ingermarsdotter would have completed a nice 100% swedish podium. stina ruled and still rules. it was almost too easy after seeing her struggles in lahti.

once again, ustiougov continued his reputation of the norwegian upsetter.


Brandsdal had a point to prove after being left out of the sprint team in Lahti. Though to be fair, the other 5 guys that races at World's deserved it more, as Brandsdal didn't ski well enough nor did he win at the nationals, where that was essentially his last chance to qualify. This Drammen course really suits him well with the gradual climb to the finish, where he can do damage with either diagonal striding or double poling, but he blasted past Klaebo fairly impressively.

These podium finishes are just bonuses for Ustiugov. This is the 7th straight race (world championships + world cups) in which he has taken part in and has gotten on the podium. Impressive stuff. The only bummer is that he may not be going to Canada for the world cup finals in a couple weeks. He moved up in the sprint rankings, is now in third and within striking distance of the lead. It would be a major downer if he didn't travel to Quebec and go for the overall sprint win. There is a skate sprint on the first day of the mini tour. He is three hundred points behind Sundbyi in the overall, so that's tough. He skied tactically well today and like you said, maximized his result.

Nilsson apparently was almost disqualified for double poling in a double pole free zone. The jury met with her and decided not to DQ her.
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08 Mar 2017 23:07

at sworks
all my posts were placed just minutes after the races or during. i watch while any commentary is muted. what i commented on is what i saw. it is reflected based on my - usually up-to-date - knowledge of the sport. thus, the special zones in drammen, if their markings were not visible on the screen, which they weren't, remained unknown to me. frankly, the special zones are not the way i would protect the classic style.

at bullsfan
ustiuogov had a long and very successful season. his performance at lahti was historic. if i was the coach of the 24 yo prodigy, having in mind his achievements this season vs the remaining goals to be husbanded carefully, i'd say your season is over. go home play and relax. all the minor worldcup goal s you mentioned imo would be excessively strenuous given the stress of traveling to canada.

the world cup victories can be scheduled for the seasons not containing the world championships or the lympics. at 24 it would be more than a reasonable long shot. no ? btw, it is almost a certainty serhey wont go to canada. per him. per vialbe too.
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11 Mar 2017 06:34

I really really am sick of Fourcade now. I get that in a pursuit or mass start he should be able to win with 1 miss, but not a sprint, everyone else needs to seriously up their game. Pleased for Eckhoff, she was looking good last week as well, hopefully she can carry this over to next season.

Holmenkollen 50, both biathlon pursuits and the queen stages of Tirreno and Paris Nice on the same day. My wife isn't going to be impressed.
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11 Mar 2017 12:04

That mens pursuit was a bit more interesting, Svendsen really needs a win soon for his confidence. Though finishing the season well should give him good motivation for the summer training.
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11 Mar 2017 12:42

Already dozens of times more interesting than last week's 50.
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Re:

11 Mar 2017 12:54

Libertine Seguros wrote:Already dozens of times more interesting than last week's 50.

You wouldn't bet against the beard right now though would you. Ustiogov looks like he is about to die, that is a face in pain.
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Re: Re:

11 Mar 2017 13:02

Singer01 wrote:
Libertine Seguros wrote:Already dozens of times more interesting than last week's 50.

You wouldn't bet against the beard right now though would you. Ustiogov looks like he is about to die, that is a face in pain.

Northug might yet catch him ;)
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11 Mar 2017 13:05

niskanen looks struggling but i did see the grimace on the sundby face too...interesting if niskanen will go for a ski change. he has too given he missed the previous one. will sundby pass the change ?

interesting the tractic behind. bess and harvey tried to activate the group of chasers full of norges but the gap is not shrinking. ustiougov was never gonna be a factor today. not his style, not his fave distance.
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11 Mar 2017 13:17

The winner is Sundby unless Niskanen is pockering.
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11 Mar 2017 13:22

Yea, I think Sundby has this, think Iivo had to go pretty deep to stay with the beard on his old skis to the end of lap 4. I doubt he'll gamble on a second pair of new skis for the last lap because these ones look to be gliding well downhill at least.
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Re:

11 Mar 2017 13:26

Libertine Seguros wrote:Yea, I think Sundby has this, think Iivo had to go pretty deep to stay with the beard on his old skis to the end of lap 4. I doubt he'll gamble on a second pair of new skis for the last lap because these ones look to be gliding well downhill at least.

Sundby had to go pretty deep to catch Niskanen after ski change though ;) I think you are just excusing Niskanen for eventual loss.

Sundby looks alwas bit faster downhill somehow. Niskanen should finish from first position.
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11 Mar 2017 13:31

the way i read the race, sundby was trying to drop livo, but could not. either he is getting tired, or trying to leave some strength for one final burst... i do not see a downside for either of the 2 leaders to change the skis last time - they have plenty of time - over 1 min over the chasers. the one open question is who is going 3d. harvey right now is preferred, but there is still 8km to go and anyone of the chasers can still die...
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