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Re: Chess! Do you play?

14 Nov 2016 23:07

karjakin made the time control but he's in trouble. his problem is being down a (passing) pawn. if the material exchanges were allowed by carlsen earlier, it would be a theoretical draw...but he did not. he left the rooks and his knight vs the bishop intact. which is a theoretical win for whites, provided he moves around carefully allowing his pawn to move into an unopposed final horizontal w/o being traded. the carlsen win is as probable as 9/1 now.
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Chess! Do you play?

15 Nov 2016 01:43

Draw... but what a fight :)
kingjr
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15 Nov 2016 01:45

In the end, why didn't Carlsen move his knight to D2?
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15 Nov 2016 02:02

i dont recall a world championship game lasting 7+h..

i don't recall a world championship game ending in a draw after it was predicted an 80% win for the whites by BOTH the experts and computers.

glad we saw a game played by the humans, not computers, where a stoic defense against a tired offense produced what was the logical thing to produce - a draw.

i do like the rule forcing the players into a faster-paced game in stead of the old custom of adjourning.

karjakin was a moral winner today b/c he absolutely proved the per-match notion i read on more responsible media - he's a an incredibly tenacious defender.
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Re:

15 Nov 2016 14:29

Netserk wrote:In the end, why didn't Carlsen move his knight to D2?


On which move?
kingjr
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15 Nov 2016 14:34

At the very end instead of what began the draw, so move 77. (after that move the draw was inevitable, right?)

With the idea of it to lead to this:
Image

http://www.apronus.com/chess/puzzle/editor.php?editpuzzle=1&playcomputer=0&fen=08X8X8X7KX2N3R1X1P5pX5k2Xr7_w_-_-_0_1&c=&w=&h=%3Ch1%3E(header%20missing)%3C%2Fh1%3E&N=0&m=1
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15 Nov 2016 19:24

a suggestion: when communicating chess via the net, clarity with the moves sequence is a must...

the position after after 76. Knight c4 ... is similar to the one in the link, except the black pawn was still at h4
http://www.agnes-bruckner.com/apronus_images/chess/onepixel.gif

karjakin advanced while taking the pawn to safety: 76. ...h3.

the suggestion was : 77. Knight d2 h2 instead of what was actually played: 77. Rook h4 King g3
then, 78. Knight e4+ King f3, 79. Knight g3.

at that point the black would: 79. ...Rook g1 pinning the knight and the rook...

there were many ways it was a draw as the black king was closer and would outpace the white king in a race for the b pawn.
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15 Nov 2016 19:30

Alternatively, Ra8 and the white Rook has to move otherwise it's gone after Rh8+, and if the rook moves, the knight is gone.
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15 Nov 2016 19:49

Yeah, Ng3 wasn't the best move, but I think Ng5 could be a path to victory. I still don't see any other move at that point in the game that could be victorious.

edit: nevermind, the victory was gone at that point (from what I can see)
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15 Nov 2016 22:36

game 4.

strangely, in stead of having put pressure on carlsen with his whites, serhey had found himself in a positional weakness after barely 20 moves. the experts, reasonably imo, are speculating karjakin is not prepared as well as he was thought to be re. the surprise openings... the game for him is now that of survival. like last night. what i see he should survive given the exceptionally stoic attitude we saw yesterday. but ...they've played now for 3,5 hours and i will not follow the rest of the game.

if i learn tomorrow morning that korjakin survived again, i will question if the luck is going to end soon.
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16 Nov 2016 15:16

...just finished reviewing the game 4 starting where i left off last night...indeed karjakin is a true houdini. another almost 7 hour torture and he's still alive. all commentators are unanimous that against the carlsen murder record and his suffocating, incremental style it was quite incredible. not that carlson played perfectly (45…f4?), but he did not commit a blunder like korjakin earlier (19.Bxc4? allowing an end game with the classic advantage of 2 bishops).

the last games were very technical, where the skill and intuition counted for more than a pure calculation power.
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17 Nov 2016 23:28

game 5...

the 1st control was just passed...

in my judgement, magnus, despite deviating from the italian opening mains with the whites early enough, had not been able to produce a positional or a tempo advantage he's so eager and capable of. in fact, after the 1st control
the position is either even or per the gm svindler assessment slightly towards the black...sussan polgar put it as a 99% draw.

then after the 1st control (40 moves in 100 min) she sees carlsen under pressure in his own positional game with the whites. this is crazy b/c the opposite was said when carlsen outplayed karj with both the whites and the balck...he seems outplaying magnus as i type at his own game but not necessarily accumulating the odds for wining this particular game.,

both queens are still very much in play (which bodes for a showdown). i see the edge for the black but will retire now to attend the none-chess matters
DJPbaltimore:'John Kerry is an honorable person and would not call out the Russians if there was not evidence', 'the 2 of you are russia stooges'
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22 Nov 2016 14:18

...not sure what happened to my post i place right after the game 8...

anyways, it was a dramatic game. never before carlsen was behind in a match. he was visibly shaken refusing to stay at a mandatory press conference and even refusing his domestic channel the nrk any comments. he stormed out like a hurt baby. i think it is understandable, but he had signed a contract with the fide and now stands to be fined for btwn 40-60K euros. that's a lot of money for most grandmasters, but perhaps not for magnus. i personally don't think a player that lost should be compelled to stay. its a personal micro tragedy and forcing salt in a would seems to me cruel, disrespectful. neither magnus deserves to be treated harshly as for all i know - very much unlike his compatriots in a sport i consider my 1st, the xc skiing - magnus is a friendly person. but rule are rules...

btw, the norwegian media which i read daily is not whining nor is arrogant... something i constantly come across in the xc ski coverage. the nrk and VG commentators give credit to karjakin and criticize magnus for playing too aggressively.

all in all, both players made several mistakes not appropriate for their level. but both played in a severe time deficit which may explain some. curiously, and i dont recall any commentator noting this, karjaking is regularly upsetting magnus playing ...black. he got his 1st initiative here in the game 5 where he was black and he also won his only previous classic game with carlsen playing black. also, if i am not mistaken he won 2 games playing black in rapid chess (i dont know how many blitz games they played). i'd be interested to find out if there is any player on this planet who could boast a similar score against the best ever positional geniuos calsen.

4 games to go with the psychological and math advantage to karjakin.
DJPbaltimore:'John Kerry is an honorable person and would not call out the Russians if there was not evidence', 'the 2 of you are russia stooges'
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22 Nov 2016 14:25

It was posted in the politics thread.

viewtopic.php?p=2044533#p2044533
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23 Nov 2016 23:56

the game 9 is still on. the position is drawish.

many predicted that after a defeat in the game 8 magnus will tonight come back mad and swinging ...

it was never to be seen. the opening was breathtakingly fast...means neither carlsen nor his opponent had a mine to detonate. then, the game descended into a positional trickery where magnus was never in control or ahead. he is still a pawn down defending for his life. i guess the only reason karjakin is till playing a drawn position is to convey a psycho message of his superiority. something magnus never failed to assert.... which is real enough but i doubt will make a difference tonight.

there are 3 games left and magnus has not yet showed the brilliance that made him the world's no 1. or was it that he was not allowed to be brilliant ?
DJPbaltimore:'John Kerry is an honorable person and would not call out the Russians if there was not evidence', 'the 2 of you are russia stooges'
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24 Nov 2016 03:01

I think that after game 9, the momentum might have swung back to Carlsen a bit, odd as it may sound. Best strategy for him is not to force the issue, play normal until game 12, if he hasn't won 1 by then he will have to go all in of course. But he should show Karjakin that he's perfectly fine winning only one game and playing rapid/blitz to decide the match. Karjakin would have liked to win this one I'm sure, but he didn't and he might actually feel the nerves a bit in the upcoming games.

That being said, I'd be happy for Karjakin if he were to win this.
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24 Nov 2016 14:18

...3 games to go . carlsen will have the white in 2 of those, including tonight. i have a strong hunch it will NOT be a draw. i seriously doubt that playing 'quietly' having the white fits the world champion's temperament. his entire record points towards an incremental, active style.

then, a lot will depend on the opening he will have chosen tonight. in that regard it is instructive to look at the last 2 games opening options. leaving aside the terminology, it could be simplified as follows. in the game 8 which he lost with the white, he strove to open with a rarely played at the elite level system aiming to divert the game AWAY from the well studied modern theory. if you are a magnus, with his phenomenal ability to just play the board better than almost any human, it is a smart tactic. that's how he prevailed so far - outperforming his opponents 1st in the middle and then in the end game. why did it misfire against karjakin ? was he outplayed in his own game ?

the full answer is still not clear, but what we can see looking at the actual game, there was more to that loss than magnus just being overambitious. karjakin too committed several errors, both were under the severe time pressure, both took long time to think...there was something else as astutely noted by Fabiano Caruana (the world's #2 atm) magnus had a hard time finding a plan, switching plans, running in place. he was playing so b/c karjakin did not let him carlsen playing differently. karjakin kept him off-balance both the way he played at the board and off the board. the 'off-the board', according several grandmasters observations, refers to karjakin driving magnus crazy by his deliberate avoidance of ANY risk in ALL games. iow, he got on magnus' nerves. and we saw it clearly. thus, it would not be unreasonable to state that in game 8 karjakin outplayed carlsen both in terms of 'just playing' and psycologically...

fast forward to game 9. this time the opening was the opposite of the game 8 in terms of its very, very well studied routes. both blitzed almost 20 moves in 10 minutes along the well known mains. again a splendid game in which magnus, this time with the black, barely saved his ards. surprisingly to most it was a different karjakin - active, holding the initiative from the get-go and even sacrificing pieces. that's how magnus typically plays. but he was defending in game 9, in fact brilliantly so, just like karjaking was earlier.

why am saying all this ? to point that the 2 are well matched, that both are deep, persistent, ambiguous, universal and healthy. both are prodigies. if there is a slight difference, it is that karjakin seems to posses the nerves of steel.
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29 Nov 2016 00:19

the last game of the classic chess format ended in a fast draw today. i feel both stupid and vindicated.

stupid b/c i, and just about every commentator, wrongly predicted that carlson playing the white in his last chance classic game will go into a blazing attack so much characteristic of his style. i fully expected him winning the match tonight looking at the magnus superb play after his win in the game 10.

in stead. the world champion surprised the chess world tonight by choosing a deliberately passive variant where a pretender forced a fast draw. why did he do it ?

clearly, the one obvious answer is to avoid the risk of losing since he was already punished once by karjakin playing the black for being overly aggressive in game 8. thats a sign of respect for the opponent. for the record, this is the 3d world chapionship match for carlsen and the first where he is unable to defeat the pretender ahead of the 12 game format.

the 2nd reason could be that carlsen strongly believes he has an advantage this wednesday when they must decide the world title in 4 rapid or, if still undecided, several more blitz games.

but does magnuss - looking objectively - have an advantage in quick chess ?

yes he does. but not with the margin he was supposed to win - but really couldn't - when looking at the classic time control. more specifically, before the match 95% of experts predicted, and in chess it really works, that magnus will win ahead of schedule based on his classic elo rating (the worlds #1 vs #9). it never happened.

looking at their rapid chess rating the advantage is still with carlson (the worlds current # 1vs # 3). clearly they are closer. in the blitz magnus is considered much better again (#1 vs # 9).

but...but...these are the evaluations of their PAST performances having nothing to do with the CURRENT level demonstrated in this match under the time pressure. in that regard, both appear on par having navigated the time controls with about equal number of mistakes.

it is still wide open. i don't feel the pundits have it right.
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Re:

29 Nov 2016 00:41

python wrote:the last game of the classic chess format ended in a fast draw today. i feel both stupid and vindicated.

stupid b/c i, and just about every commentator, wrongly predicted that carlson playing the white in his last chance classic game will go into a blazing attack so much characteristic of his style.


But why did they expect this? It would have been foolish. It hasn't worked for him at all throughout this match. The one time it did he was fortunate Karjakin missed the forced draw.
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29 Nov 2016 14:45

while everyone is still wondering why carlsen chose a passive game, i thought it would be interesting to hear the explanation from his own mouth...he didn't really clarify much in the press conference. here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5qfrvR7bgg

most grand masters who opined believe either magnus was not 100% healthy or he believes in his rapid chess. interestingly, karjakin himself did not think the 12 th game was destined to be drawn even after the opening. he showed why carlsen went for a mass exchange after his relatively unusual move in the spanish opener proved ineffective.

if maghus was unhealthy, it is absolutely not obvious from his looks or demeanor at the press conference. neither he looked overly nervous or impetuous like when he stormed out after his loss.

it is interesting to compare their personalities. karjakin while coeval with magnus looks and behaves as an older and wiser man. it turns out karjakin at 26 is on his 2nd marriage already and just fathered a son. reportedly both are in nyc NOW. magnus is single and has a wonderful support from his parents and 3 sisters. he's more boyish looking and sounding. it may or may not matter in the rapid chess but i find there personal details an interesting supplement to their style.

to complete the style impression, i youtubed a couple of their rapid and blitz games. they differ a lot. while magnus plays like a machine, quickly and crisp, karjakin is slower and deliberate. in no game i saw him panic even when there was 10-12 seconds left. for ex he beautifully forced svidler to resign in a world cup final blitz with 10 second left when svidler had almost a minute. strong nerves. or he masked it well.

the nerves could be a decider. karpov thinks the one who sleeps better on wed will win. he also said something i did not read from anyone - this was the 1st ever word ch. match when neither player produced an opening novelties. that is, he thinks they contributed zero to the chess theory.
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