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F1 2014

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01 Dec 2014 07:16

FoxxyBrown1111 wrote:Corrected for you. ;)
I guess you agree with it since only 2 teams collected wins in a 19-race-season. Even worse; 16 of those 19 races were won by one team.
Conclusion: It basically was a 2-men-championship. That means there was a 50% chance for either Hamilton or Rosberg to be crowned in the end. The mere act of stepping into the F-1-Mercedes assured that.
I am sure a Boeing-747-Pilot would also have made it to either being the champ or runner-up (if he would have been put into one of the two F-1-Mercedes-cars)... Nothing special.


Lewis was still the best man over Rosberg. Plus after years of Vettel dominance it's nice to have the guy I root for winning lots of races. Plus let's not forget it's a huge team sport. The guys who work tirelessly behind the scenes will be more than happy to have something they've produced win so many races. Let's face it, every team in the paddock would give anything to have swapped cars with the Merc's this last year.
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09 Dec 2014 17:36

Little Bernie's noted that it was a good job that Mercedes let their drivers race each other, otherwise it would have been a lousy season!
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117081

I've not watched many of the races, even putting aside those I can't watch because they're on Sky. The ones I have watched have been boring in general.
It'll get worse, as tallented drivers without a big sponsor, just aren't going to get a seat, even in the crappest Caterham or Marussia.
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09 Dec 2014 20:28

FoxxyBrown1111 wrote:For comparison, had a quick look at the other major open wheel auto racing competition:

IndyCarSeries 2014:

Indeed the best driver won there: Will Power (with 3 GP wins).
Some stats; 11 (!!) different drivers won in the 18-Race-Season.
7 different teams won a race...

Actually it was a full blown competition (like it should be) where talent actually mattered...


you do not seem to follow Indy Car too closely. The opposite is the case, it's down to luck for a large part of it, especially on the street circuits, not to talent. Many of those races are ridiculous and they are won by those who are lucky with the yellow and don't get crashed out.

It makes the races entertaining in a way, and it's true that there is less difference between the cars, and therefor there's also a bigger variety of possible winners - but the racing itself is far far worse than in F1
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15 Dec 2014 23:55

Hamilton take's BBC SPOTY. What a year for him he really is my fav sportsman. Hope he get's number 3 next year. And to the poster above i agree, one man i think could hack F1 is Will Power. He may have took along time to get his title but he as the raw speed on non ovals by a big way. Can you imagine Dixon and Helio on F1 tracks.
Froome is the man get prepared for this in the next few years he is the best GT rider for long time.
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16 Dec 2014 06:46

search wrote:you do not seem to follow Indy Car too closely.


True. Because it´s no more on german (free) TV...

search wrote:The opposite is the case, it's down to luck for a large part of it, especially on the street circuits, not to talent. Many of those races are ridiculous and they are won by those who are lucky with the yellow and don't get crashed out.


As long the rules havn´t changed too much since my last full season... yes, yes, it´s long time ago (15 years)... talent matters and luck evens out in the long run. There is no lucky champion. Otherwise Mansell, Villeneuve and Montoya (all of them also performed pretty well in the F-1) wouldn´t have been champions, but more the likes of Danica Patrick... OTOH imagine her doing the mere act of sitting in a Mercedes F-1 2014. At least 2nd in the championship. There is no doubt about that... And any good taxi driver from NYC could be at least championship-runner-up in that car as well.

search wrote:It makes the races entertaining in a way, and it's true that there is less difference between the cars, and therefor there's also a bigger variety of possible winners - but the racing itself is far far worse than in F1


That myth was wide spread even back in the day. Yet I remember seeing 3-wide and even 4-wide runs, inches apart from the wall and opponents going 300 km/h...
So how do we quantify "better" racing in the F-1? Because they are helped with all those technique gadgets? One day it will be like a 747 in the air: Full auto pilot...
But I would agree the better drivers overall are in the F-1. But does it help them? Heck no. If you are not in the best car, all the talent is useless. So do we know who the best driver is? Hell no. It can be anybody from Bottas to Vettel. We will never know...

TANK91 wrote:Hamilton take's BBC SPOTY. What a year for him he really is my fav sportsman. Hope he get's number 3 next year. And to the poster above i agree, one man i think could hack F1 is Will Power. He may have took along time to get his title but he as the raw speed on non ovals by a big way. Can you imagine Dixon and Helio on F1 tracks.


Hélio Castroneves? Why not. He showed his reliability in 15 years at the top of open wheel racing... Would he be too old? Not for a Mercedes F-1. He could beat Rosberg. About Hamilton, am not so sure. Would be nice to find out (if given them the same cars. Not like in the Schumacher years were he got the best material and his team-mate was used as the door scraper).

Reduce the field to two Mercedes cars (or whatever car company turns out to be ahead of the others in the pre season testing), and let them do the qualiy. Whoever wins the pole is awarded the following race win. With one exception: A computer model will be run if one or both cars had a mechanical. Then the non-pole driver may be awarded the win...
That is, in principle, the way F-1 seasons are run.

The rest is pure hoax to sell tickets. And the other 20 drivers with no chance of winning are pretty well aware of that...
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16 Dec 2014 10:07

FoxxyBrown1111 wrote:That myth was wide spread even back in the day. Yet I remember seeing 3-wide and even 4-wide runs, inches apart from the wall and opponents going 300 km/h...


well, I was talking about road and street races up there - the ones on the oval are still great of course, but there are only 5 or 6 all season (6 out of 18 races on Ovals this year) - contrary to 15 years ago when there were mainly oval races.

the ones (2 or 3 a season) on road circuits (permanent race tracks - no Laguna Seca anymore btw) are usually plain boring as overtakes only can happen due to different fuel loads and tyre wear, and as mentioned above, on the street circuits you often have the pace car leading for field for half of the race (or even more, sometimes), because the good old "Yellow brings Yellow" still applies

I like IndyCar a lot, don't understand me wrong, I am following it for more than 15 years now (some years more than others), but the tendency to move to street circuits mainly is a very bad development.

and I never said there was a lucky champion by the way. I was talking about the amount of different race winners, and the reasons for it
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16 Dec 2014 10:17

search wrote:well, I was talking about road and street races up there - the ones on the oval are still great of course, but there are only 5 or 6 all season (6 out of 18 races on Ovals this year) - contrary to 15 years ago when there were mainly oval races.

the ones (2 or 3 a season) on road circuits (permanent race tracks - no Laguna Seca anymore btw) are usually plain boring as overtakes only can happen due to different fuel loads and tyre wear, and as mentioned above, on the street circuits you often have the pace car leading for field for half of the race (or even more, sometimes), because the good old "Yellow brings Yellow" still applies

I like IndyCar a lot, don't understand me wrong, I am following it for more than 15 years now (some years more than others), but the tendency to move to street circuits mainly is a very bad development.

and I never said there was a lucky champion by the way. I was talking about the amount of different race winners, and the reasons for it


No prob. :)
As usual I was intentionally exaggerating things a little to hammer the message home. ;)
While you started to follow the US circuit, that was the time I pretty much stopped to follow because they split into IRL and Cart.
Thus I didn´t know they reduced the number of all the great oval races.

search wrote: the ones (2 or 3 a season) on road circuits (permanent race tracks - no Laguna Seca anymore btw) are usually plain boring as overtakes only can happen due to different fuel loads and tyre wear


Holy shit! Sounds like F-1 version 2.0... :o
Who needs that?

Could it be they reduced them (the oval races) because of the Wheldon death? Tragic. Sure. But auto racing can´t be 100% safe. Look at Earnhardts death. The crash looked so ... how to say? ... harmless. And yet it was fatal.

BTW, I am honest here. That LV race was great to watch, too bad someone died, otherwise this one would go into history as the craziest race ever...
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16 Dec 2014 10:36

FoxxyBrown1111 wrote:While you started to follow the US circuit, that was the time I pretty much stopped to follow because they split into IRL and Cart.


I don't know exactly when it was, back then when it was live on Eurosport, must have been late 90's or something like that. I remember Castroneves always suffering from mechanical problems in his first year, and also the Greg Moore incident for example, so it must have been around ~1998 or so.

In my comparison to F1 I basically left out the oval races, as I think it's too different to really compare it with usual road racing. And I think regarding the quality of wheel to wheel races on regular tracks, the F1 just has the upper hand over IndyCar, and there are also less stupid mistakes to be seen.

As I said, those races can still be entertaining in a way, in Mid-Ohio (if I remember correctly) for example, Dixon won from last because he made his last stop early, and immediately afterwards a yellow came out. In IndyCar you can't go to the pits immediately but have to wait until everyone is lined up behind the safety car, which means Dixon was 1st afterwards. I would call that "luck" for example, if that yellow had come out 5 laps earlier (before his stop) or later (after the others stopped) he still would have finished ~20th. But then, it became interesting because of the fact that no one knew if he'd be able to make it to the end or not with the fuel load he had.

I don't know exactly why they have moved away from the Ovals, it already happened before Wheldon's accident - I think it has more to do with trying to be different to Nascar, which usually attracts way more spectators and viewer figures on tv than IndyCar.
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16 Dec 2014 10:59

search wrote:I don't know exactly when it was, back then when it was live on Eurosport, must have been late 90's or something like that. I remember Castroneves always suffering from mechanical problems in his first year, and also the Greg Moore incident for example, so it must have been around ~1998 or so.


Correct, about that time... Moore had a bright future. Too bad he died.

search wrote:And I think regarding the quality of wheel to wheel races on regular tracks, the F1 just has the upper hand over IndyCar, and there are also less stupid mistakes to be seen.


Yes. As I earlier said, the talent level might be deeper at the F-1. But it doesn´t matter when only the car and people sitting in front of the computers decide the outcome of races.

And top level Indy drivers can make it in the F-1. The talent at the top is as good there as in the F-1. Only that we don´t know who are the best F-1 drivers.

search wrote:As I said, those races can still be entertaining in a way, in Mid-Ohio (if I remember correctly) for example, Dixon won from last because he made his last stop early, and immediately afterwards a yellow came out. In IndyCar you can't go to the pits immediately but have to wait until everyone is lined up behind the safety car, which means Dixon was 1st afterwards. I would call that "luck" for example, if that yellow had come out 5 laps earlier (before his stop) or later (after the others stopped) he still would have finished ~20th. But then, it became interesting because of the fact that no one knew if he'd be able to make it to the end or not with the fuel load he had.


Yes, the yellows are lottery (OTOH, that makes things interesting too). Always were. But over the length of a season luck evens out, thus best driver wins. As it´s not the case in F-1.

search wrote:I don't know exactly why they have moved away from the Ovals, it already happened before Wheldon's accident - I think it has more to do with trying to be different to Nascar, which usually attracts way more spectators and viewer figures on tv than IndyCar.


Then they must be idiots. ChampCar had it all (popularity), then this greedy a-hole bringing the IRL up spoiled everything....
I guess they should stick their heads together, and go back in time. Do it as it was: Oval races and the occasional road race(s) in Watkins Glen or Toronto...
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16 Dec 2014 11:12

FoxxyBrown1111 wrote:Yes. As I earlier said, the talent level might be deeper at the F-1. But it doesn´t matter when only the car and people sitting in front of the computers decide the outcome of races.


it's true, yes. Although I think F1 has improved again over recent years. Things like DRS are not optimized yet, and sometimes it even is too easy to overtake now, but generally at the moment there are less boring races than like ~10 years ago.

FoxxyBrown1111 wrote:And top level Indy drivers can make it in the F-1. The talent at the top is as good there as in the F-1. Only that we don´t know who are the best F-1 drivers.


yes, maybe. I hoped to see Simona in the Sauber next year for example, she was a great addition to IndyCar, and also would be for F1 I think. But with the current situation it's almost impossible to make it if you don't have Red Bull, Mercedes or a big oil company behind you - and yes, that's definitely a big problem of Formula 1 - and unfortunately unlikely to change as long as Bernie is in charge.
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16 Dec 2014 11:29

search wrote:it's true, yes. Although I think F1 has improved again over recent years. Things like DRS are not optimized yet, and sometimes it even is too easy to overtake now, but generally at the moment there are less boring races than like ~10 years ago.


F-1, I am off even longer. Was a big Mansell fan. But even that show became absurd when he won like 13 of 16 races. 5 races into the season I stopped. Next year I went "with him" to Indy car for good.

But I trust you 100% that F-1 races must have been even more boring 10 years ago, since they now use "Turbo boost" for show-effect over-taking. It´s so absurd.

search wrote:impossible to make it if you don't have Red Bull, Mercedes or a big oil company behind you - and yes, that's definitely a big problem of Formula 1 - and unfortunately unlikely to change as long as Bernie is in charge.


Even after Bernie, nothing will change, since F-1 declared themselves as science and testing for future street car gadgets. Biggest budget /best tech wins, no matter who sits behind the steering wheel...
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18 Jul 2015 09:15

RIP Jules Bianchi, really terrible news.
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18 Jul 2015 11:04

Yes RIP
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18 Jul 2015 19:21

Indeed tragic news regarding Jules. Very talented driver with such a bright future ahead, if not in Formula One. Certainly in Motorsport, just highlights the fragility of life within Formula One. It's no wonder his family gave very few updates on his condition.
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28 Aug 2016 12:59

Bump for the enigma that is verstappen.
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Re:

02 Sep 2016 17:37

Brullnux wrote:Bump for the enigma that is verstappen.

They seem to have forgotten to tell some of these young guns than you can't win the race in the first corner, but you can lose it.
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Re: Re:

02 Sep 2016 17:47

StyrbjornSterki wrote:
Brullnux wrote:Bump for the enigma that is verstappen.

They seem to have forgotten to tell some of these young guns than you can't win the race in the first corner, but you can lose it.

Or just how to drive non-GTA style. He will cause an accident if he doesn't change how he defends. It could be Sunday, Monza's long straights seem perfect to do so. He strikes me as a bit too arrogant for his own good too. After Spa he said 'when they [Ferraris] screw up my race, I'm not gonna make it easy for them', which annoys me especially considering he kind of screwed up Kimi's race, not the other way round. Vettel helped with the Kimi screw up as well. I think his move up to Red Bull came slightly too early, now he seems to thinks he's the greatest thing to happen to F1 since Senna. Reminds me of Schumi. As in would cheat to win a title.
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Re: Re:

03 Sep 2016 17:16

Brullnux wrote:...I think his move up to Red Bull came slightly too early, now he seems to thinks he's the greatest thing to happen to F1 since Senna. Reminds me of Schumi. As in would cheat to win a title.

But that's Red Bull's game plan, innit? Snatch up the young talent before anyone else has the chance. Which is an ace plan, provided the young driver steps up to the challenge, a like Sebastian Vettel. But sometimes you roll the dice and it comes up Kyvat (or Verstappen).

A few years back I think it was Sir Jackie Stewart who queried why F1 teams don't employ "driving mentors" to school the young turks on the finer points of racecraft. Which made sense to me but the teams (or at least RBR) obviously think it better to leave those teenaged egos running WFO.


As for Schumi, I think he sometimes cheated purely out of habit. Remember the attempt to block Barrichello at the 2010 GP of Hungary? Twelve races into the season, Schumi without a single podium finish to his name, and neither driver running in the top 10, so whatever was motivating Schumi, it wasn't a chance to tot up #8.
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