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Re: Veganism

10 Feb 2016 19:26

Echoes wrote:Today is the Ash Wednesday, celebrated by the great Catholic poet T.S. Eliot and the start of the Lent. So I'll try to get as close to a vegan diet as I can. :) Though for me first and foremost, the Lent would mean quit eating crisps and fries (that has nothing to do with veganism), I'm gonna have to cut consumption of dairy products. That's gonna be hard, I love some Belgian cheese and yoghurt. Quit eating chocolate is very doable though. With regards to meat, I've already reduced to the minimum (only when I visit friends & family, a bit like Safebet, I think) but .I know realise that meat eating is sin and it's part of my confessions. &#128528 Cutting my consumption of soft drinks is easy. 've already reduced it to the minimum for financial reason (I'm very poor). I usually just drink water, and from the tap. And if I have to buy water at the shop, I'd take a glass bottle rather than a plastic one in order not to be dependent on oil and for saving money. I haven't drunk Coca Cola for 20 years (but on one occasion 6 years ago) and almost quit drinking Ice Tea. I realise that Coke is really a drink for Bourgeois. So expensive compared to water! With regards to beer, that's only just on the odd occasion, anyway.

I've long ignored Lent, to my shame. I rediscovered it when discovering the work of Dr André Gernez about fasting and prevention against cancer. Fasting is good, especially in spring. That's why things like Lent or Ramadan are good. The Conciliarist Church at the Vatican have now scrapped the Lent, which is further proof that they are not Catholic anymore, they are in apostasy. Hence they advocate for gluttony. It should be remembered that the Catholic Church has always promoted vegetarianism and that Jesus was probably a vegan (not just a pesco-vegetarian as He's sometimes referred to). Hence the massive lie by atheistic vegans that considered the Christian religion as anthropomorphic and cruel towards animals. The Mystic Lamb symbolism and the Rule of Saint Benedict, they probably have never heard of it. While their (non-existent) spirituality leads to Idon'tcarism and hence meat-eating in a most gluttonous way. So if you are a vegan with consistency and genuine idealism, join me. :)

By the way, even though I still think some aspect of veganism is exaggerated (fur, honey, ...), I can hardly be blamed for destroying nature by other means, as was suggested above. I have no smartphone, no iphone, no Ipod, I have long been impervious to mobile phones until I realised it was impossible to do without and the one I have now I have had it for 5 years and I won't change it until it dies out. Obviously I have no Plasma-screen TV, I only have an old small-screen Phillips from 1996 and when it blows up, I don't intend to replace it because I don't any telly (my laptops are my only guilty pleasures, though they also are a necessity). I also have never played PS in my life, would rather read books. Never even an old type of Nintendo or Sega. I've never even TOUCHED a console. I'm very proud of that fact. :) Only played an old school type of Game Boy in the nineties but it was not mine, it was my best friend's. I'm very careful with all this High Tech, even before I went flexitarian. I know about the exploitation of Coltan in Eastern Congo and the wars that the US have waged there.

One coke every 6 years is OK, 2 cokes every 6 years means you are a bourgeois heathen sinner. Echoes' rule.

Glad that is clear, I had some doubts.
"This comment qualifies as a shining example of the "anyone who disagrees with my perspective is a dolt" leftist, intolerant mish-mash of shallow thinking." - Scott SoCal
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Re:

10 Feb 2016 19:35

Lupi33x wrote:Vegan here. I dont really care about animals any more than the average person so I dont care what logic meat eaters use to morally self license their choices. Health reasons are my motivation. If animals benefit, thats a bonus.
The mainstreaming of veganism means that you neednt be a hippy or subscribe to any of the other negative stereotypes which quite honestly repel a lot of people from considering the option.


I've often wondered what causes the reaction to vegetarianism or veganism which I almost invariably see from a large portion of the population. I think what you mention may be factors, as is lack of education and awareness of the health benefits and the wide range of options available. I think change is difficult for a large segment of any population and that's a big part of it, informing much of the above.

What I can't escape is the fact that some people seem to react to others living their lives in new and improved or experimental ways, is that somehow they take it as a declaration that what they're doing is "wrong". Thus the reaction. More than anything, some people can't stand to be "wrong" and are wildly defensive to the point of seeing differing lifestyles as attacks on their values and culture.

Humans.
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Re:

10 Feb 2016 20:39

Lupi33x wrote:Vegan here. I dont really care about animals any more than the average person so I dont care what logic meat eaters use to morally self license their choices. Health reasons are my motivation. If animals benefit, thats a bonus.
The mainstreaming of veganism means that you neednt be a hippy or subscribe to any of the other negative stereotypes which quite honestly repel a lot of people from considering the option.


what health reasons?

people have this misconception that vegan/vegetarian diets are healthier, but that's not true. If you want to be healthy just make sure you have a normal weight, eat plenty of whole foods, limit processed foods as much as you can and make sure to eat enought fruit and veggies so you can meet your daily micronutrient needs. It also helps to be fairly active.


You don't need to eat animal products every day, but completely eliminating them makes no sense.
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Re: Re:

11 Feb 2016 02:44

red_flanders wrote:
Lupi33x wrote:Vegan here. I dont really care about animals any more than the average person so I dont care what logic meat eaters use to morally self license their choices. Health reasons are my motivation. If animals benefit, thats a bonus.
The mainstreaming of veganism means that you neednt be a hippy or subscribe to any of the other negative stereotypes which quite honestly repel a lot of people from considering the option.


I've often wondered what causes the reaction to vegetarianism or veganism which I almost invariably see from a large portion of the population. I think what you mention may be factors, as is lack of education and awareness of the health benefits and the wide range of options available. I think change is difficult for a large segment of any population and that's a big part of it, informing much of the above.

What I can't escape is the fact that some people seem to react to others living their lives in new and improved or experimental ways, is that somehow they take it as a declaration that what they're doing is "wrong". Thus the reaction. More than anything, some people can't stand to be "wrong" and are wildly defensive to the point of seeing differing lifestyles as attacks on their values and culture.

Humans.

not helped by the media saturation of meat/dairy consumption that suggests that you should be doing nothing but... education by the media - helping increase idiocracy since...
'where's the beef'
'got milk?'
'get some pork on your fork'
'get up and googie' [eggs]
the lamb roast ad series where the girl refuses the date with Tom Cruise (circa 1990) for her mum's lamb roast
the "tradition" of lamb on the barbie for Australia Day...
the red meat cure for iron deficiency in women ads - stealthily disguised as healthy info-mercials
all the 'our milk is best for your baby/toddler' ads
plenty of others out there

Not many 'eat your veggies' ad campaigns out there...
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Re: Re:

11 Feb 2016 15:19

red_flanders wrote:...I've often wondered what causes the reaction to vegetarianism or veganism which I almost invariably see from a large portion of the population....

It couldn't possibly be the imperious proselytism.

Archibald wrote:...Not many 'eat your veggies' ad campaigns out there....

That's because veggies aren't proper food, they're what proper food eats.
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Re: Re:

12 Feb 2016 02:51

StyrbjornSterki wrote:
red_flanders wrote:...I've often wondered what causes the reaction to vegetarianism or veganism which I almost invariably see from a large portion of the population....

It couldn't possibly be the imperious proselytism.

Archibald wrote:...Not many 'eat your veggies' ad campaigns out there....

That's because veggies aren't proper food, they're what proper food eats.

Really?
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Re: Re:

13 Feb 2016 15:31

StyrbjornSterki wrote:
red_flanders wrote:...I've often wondered what causes the reaction to vegetarianism or veganism which I almost invariably see from a large portion of the population....

It couldn't possibly be the imperious proselytism....


...or the criminal behaviour masquerading as activism ....

Chef Drops Foie Gras From Menu After Vegan Death Threats
Maya Rhodan @m_rhodan
Feb. 12, 2016

Vegan activists threatened a restaurant in the United Kingdom over its Valentine's Day menu....



Can you say ...wackadoodle?

Find me a headline reporting that a cattle rancher has attacked a vegan for serving organic carrots.
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Re:

15 Feb 2016 04:56

BigMac wrote:No one ever presented (nor ever will) a theory or anything scientific to prove plant sentience. It simply doesn't exist.

Not disputing this, I've just always thought plants are a little more sensitive to stimuli than we give them credit for. They have a clear-cut strategy for dealing with me: they've fully committed themselves to suicide before life in captivity. It's been a good long-run strategy for them.

I'm not sure I'm not up to something:
http://news.discovery.com/earth/plants/some-plants-can-count-160121.htm
http://www.treehugger.com/corporate-responsibility/free-music-to-make-your-plants-grow.html
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Re: Re:

27 Feb 2016 23:27

carton wrote:
BigMac wrote:No one ever presented (nor ever will) a theory or anything scientific to prove plant sentience. It simply doesn't exist.


No no, there are some scientific studies proving plant sentience I think :) The world is changing...
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LOL

06 Mar 2016 09:53

asked my friend 'how is your veg soup best ..ever?'....veg/stock boiled up with ham bone...LOL..Mark L
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Re: Veganism

07 Mar 2016 17:13

Is it just me or do ramen noodles look like canine heartworm?

Otherwise, I'd love to be a veggie - I'd prefer sheep, pigs and cows as pets. I only eat chicken these days- and I've painfully learnt they are smarter than they seem!
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Re:

14 Mar 2016 10:00

LaFlorecita wrote:We keep pigs etc in a relatively safe environment as a food supply.

A relatively safe environment? Perhaps. A healthy, stimulating environment that makes life worth living? Not so much.

The problem with rearing animals for food is not so much the killing as everything that comes before it.
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30 Mar 2016 16:30

Long term vegetarian diet changes human DNA raising risk of cancer and heart disease

Populations who have had a primarily vegetarian diet for generations carried a genetic mutation which raised risk of cancer and heart disease
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30 Mar 2016 17:48

For every study one finds in one direction, you can find an equal and opposite study in another.

http://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-13477/how-the-food-you-eat-changes-your-genes.html
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30 Mar 2016 21:27

I'm becoming more and more convinced that vegan is the way to go. Its just a bacon sandwich with ketchup, I cant stop myself .
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Re:

31 Mar 2016 02:48

ray j willings wrote:I'm becoming more and more convinced that vegan is the way to go. Its just a bacon sandwich with ketchup, I cant stop myself .


Yes, imo you have to be a hard core vegan/vegetarian to fight off the temptation of bacon. I have a friend who raises pigs...freshly cured bacon is simply heavenly. :p :D

Sorry...back to the normal conversation here.
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Re: Re:

31 Mar 2016 03:18

Jspear wrote:
ray j willings wrote:I'm becoming more and more convinced that vegan is the way to go. Its just a bacon sandwich with ketchup, I cant stop myself .


Yes, imo you have to be a hard core vegan/vegetarian to fight off the temptation of bacon. I have a friend who raises pigs...freshly cured bacon is simply heavenly. :p :D

Sorry...back to the normal conversation here.


Is this lust and gluttony I'm seeing? ;)
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Re: Re:

31 Mar 2016 04:06

BigMac wrote:
Jspear wrote:
ray j willings wrote:I'm becoming more and more convinced that vegan is the way to go. Its just a bacon sandwich with ketchup, I cant stop myself .


Yes, imo you have to be a hard core vegan/vegetarian to fight off the temptation of bacon. I have a friend who raises pigs...freshly cured bacon is simply heavenly. :p :D

Sorry...back to the normal conversation here.


Is this lust and gluttony I'm seeing? ;)


I must be one of the few people in the world who has never liked bacon, so becoming vegan was fairly easy!
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Re: Re:

31 Mar 2016 12:23

BigMac wrote:
Jspear wrote:
ray j willings wrote:I'm becoming more and more convinced that vegan is the way to go. Its just a bacon sandwich with ketchup, I cant stop myself .


Yes, imo you have to be a hard core vegan/vegetarian to fight off the temptation of bacon. I have a friend who raises pigs...freshly cured bacon is simply heavenly. :p :D

Sorry...back to the normal conversation here.


Is this lust and gluttony I'm seeing? ;)


It definitely is. :) For genuine Christians, fighting off the temptation of bacon is very easy (okay I speak for myself, lol). And I've done it for a long time even though it tasted good and I was no flexitarian then. Only I was afraid of fat. Ketchup, however, I never could. Disgusting !

By the way, end of the Lent and I've lost 3kg (83.5 to 80.5 for 200cm). Going crazy, lol, never knew how it could be so hard for people to lose weight. I can loseweight without deliberately wishing it. :o
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31 Mar 2016 15:05

Congratulation on having a decent vegan discussion. I'd like to see it a little heavier on the "how to" side, like a recipe a bachelor would use, but you guys have made a fun time with the moral and health arguments.

I, for one, am vegan a few days a week, mostly salmon otherwise but I eat most any meat occasionally. I know enough about the vegan diet that you can live on french fries and coca cola and still be a vegan, not that I recommend it. But the vegan diet is really easy to follow and almost impossible to adhere to!
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