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10 Dec 2014 05:33

the delgados wrote:Thanks, FoxxyBrown.


You are welcome... :)

-------------------------------

More about Ms. Maxwell: It´s good to read comments.
Just one extra shocking;
"Ms. Maxwell also says on her facebook page "I choose to believe Jackie. I lose nothing by doing so, even if I’m later proven wrong – but at least I will still be able to sleep at night .... "

So Ms. Maxwell concerns herself with only what is a gain or loss for her personally, without regard for the accused. If she is wrong in believing someone is a rapist, she's not going to lose sleep over it."

Who stops such evil femi-nazis? Free speech or not. High standards should be applied to lawyers. In her position as lawyer she can ruin lives without losing sleep over it. What a cold hearted self-serving basterd this women is. Another hard slap into the face of true victims and true feminists.

If the WP editor had guts, he´d fire her. Instantly.

Edit: And OFC the American Bar Association should react. I am sure with her understanding of being a attorney she must be removed. I am sure the ABA has standards and laws which are broken by her with her opinions. Certain companies fire people of breaking standards who do way less damage.
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10 Dec 2014 06:37

OK, Foxxy, I looked at a few minutes of the video. It sure seems to me that the girls stripped and went on stage entirely voluntarily. They gave every evidence of enjoying it, up to the time I stopped viewing.

So why was your original post filled with “against their will” descriptions? Why did you say they didn’t want to go onto the stage, that they didn’t want to be touched? That is a completely false description of the events, as you must have been aware of. Speaking of fabrications! Were you trying to use this video as proof that false accusations of rape are made when women are voluntarily stripping?

At this point I have no idea why you referred to this video at all. It doesn’t seem relevant at all the question of rape. Maybe your point was that when the women sobered up the next day, they would regret what they did, and accuse someone of forcing them. But I don’t think you referred to any evidence that they did regret it, or did make such accusations? I think you were trying to paint women in a bad light by suggesting that this is the kind of behavior that would lead some of them to make false accusations. For me, that is preposterous, that is exaggerating for effect, IOW, doing much the same as what you are accusing others of doing.

And if they did, I can’t imagine anyone, including the women you refer to as Nazis, having much sympathy. No one even asked, let alone forced, the women to take off their clothes. The video clearly shows they did it on their own while in the audience, and only after some attention was attracted did the band notice and invite them on stage.

I will grant you that doing it before a large audience makes a big difference. I didn't watch too much of the video, but I assume no one tried to have sex with the women on the stage. If a woman gets drunk at a party, she's much more likely to end up having intercourse with some guy. There the line is more difficult to draw. She might have been taken advantage of, but she might also have gotten drunk specifically to lose her inhibitions because she wanted to get laid. I think situations like that have to be judged case by case.

My only other comment is that if men get off on this they must lead a very dull life. I don’t have any problem with it at all, it just seems incredibly juvenile.
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10 Dec 2014 06:49

FoxxyBrown1111 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHK1gC6_9kQ

Is that one working? From circa 1.03.00 it gets out of hand.

Somehow it´s good you didn´t see the vid, but felt into a trap of pre bias.

After you see the vid, everything becomes clear:
While the women weren´t groupies, they got onto the stage half naked, touched & kissed by strangers, after losing all self-respect because of being drunk. They certainly would not have gone onto stage like that ifn´t drunk. So it was kind of against their will. You see; a little twist here and there, a non-assault/harrasement/you-name-it easily could become one if one of those women would have changed the whole story into shifting blame to others (when being sober again and ashamed of their previous actions), like to the the singer or the fan I mentioned, the next day or later. As I said: imagine there was no witnesses.


let the videos go - I'm on a work computer, so they get blocked..

Fell into a pre-bias?? turn it up - I went by what you said:
Per canadian definition the lead singer and guitarist (+ one fan too, if you look closely) did all that, what qualifies for non violent rape in Canada
1.) The fan was groping one woman against her will on her tits.
2.) The lead singer forced the women on stage. He asked repeatetley until the first lost her self-esteem, and finally said yes (by going onto the stage). Then others followed.
3.) On stage the lead singer grabbed (= groping) serveral womens behind against their will (all at least half-naked against their will, and the tits fully exposed against their will), and forced at least one deep kiss (= penetration against will). Additionally he called them *****es and what else. He didn´t even care about their names...

Now imagine all this happened without 50.000+ witnesess and millions on TV:

I guarantee every single one of these women woke up the next day in shame, not believing what happened to them. A trauma forever since they´d have not allowed such things if sober. They were drunk, didn´t knew what the heck they are doing.


That's a pretty strong description of what occured, no?
I objected to your excusing the women's violation due to their intoxication. There is no excuse for men to take advantage of drunken women.
It's inexcusable behaviour, but you seem to think it's okay, and validate through their being drunk and that everyone else had a good time.
You can't shift blame - the men involved knew what they were doing, and IF they were sober have a greater responsibility. It would seem that they targeted the women in question, because when they originally said 'no', the men didn't choose someone else.
And why should the women feel "ashamed of their previous actions" like you say? Why is it not the men who molested them that should feel ashamed of themselves??

There appears to be holes in your logic that I'm calling out.
My entire point is on attitude.

To illustrate that, go back to the 3 boys - why did none of them say "Man, she's pretty f**ked up, we should make sure she gets home safely". Instead, they thought "Cool man, she's nearly comatose, so lets each f**k her while she can't stop us and probably won't remember".
Nice attitude, don't you think. Where'd they get an idea like that from?

FoxxyBrown1111 wrote:Beyonce?
http://www.clipfish.de/musikvideos/video/1566987/beyonce-green-light/

How you explain that to your 13 year old daughter? You know kids try to emulate their heroes...


I can't view the vid (as mentioned above), but I'm not aware of any Beyonce videos where she gets naked or is molested and/or raped...
I will ask again "Exactly what part of her 'performance' is inciting others to rape/molest women??"

Also, what do I need to explain to my daughter? That Beyonce is a powerful and sexy woman? That she's using her looks/moves to sell records? That she's suggestively titillating the viewer? That's easy to explain, BUT shouldn't the issue be what should be explained to your son??

Lastly; kids emulating their heroes... do you think there might be teenagers/young men now thinking that what they saw your band do is okay?
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10 Dec 2014 06:59

Merckx index wrote:OK, Foxxy, I looked at a few minutes of the video. It sure seems to me that the girls stripped and went on stage entirely voluntarily. They gave every evidence of enjoying it, up to the time I stopped viewing.

So why was your original post filled with “against their will” descriptions? Why did you say they didn’t want to go onto the stage, that they didn’t want to be touched? That is a completely false description of the events, as you must have been aware of. Speaking of fabrications! Were you trying to use this video as proof that false accusations of rape are made when women are voluntarily stripping?


Good, you also didn´t see it before.

I just played the devils advocate (is that the correct spelling?). What if there are no witnesses, what if women change minds when being sober again feeling embarrassed about their own mistakes? What if a clever (sorry to use it again, I simply can´t find a better short form description) femi-nazi lawyer twists words to the advantage of her client, citing she was drunk thus did everything against her will, forced onto the stage after hour-long askings by the band to get the women to show boobs, and minutes long askings to get onto the stage, until the first woman lost her self-esteem?

No, in the stage of disscussions we were back then it was not about stripping, but about the mixed up canadian law, and that un-violent actions fall into the category of candaian rape (a term they don´t use anymore). You can´t deny there was touching, kissing, and else that fall into the canadian definitions...

Sorry for missleading you in the first place.

Merckx index wrote:My only other comment is that if men get off on this they must lead a very dull life. I don’t have any problem with it at all, it just seems incredibly juvenile.


I think not a single man "got off" in/at/or about that concert. It was just different than the other 70 bands playing on that great festival.
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10 Dec 2014 07:13

Archibald wrote:let the videos go - I'm on a work computer, so they get blocked..

Fell into a pre-bias?? turn it up - I went by what you said

...



It´s all about perspective. Judge yourself once you saw the vid.
If even "Merckxindex" sees no problem, than there is none I guess. Because his posts are almost always well thought and written. And he is very fair, never engaged in fights and what else... Something I admit I havn´t done myself always.
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10 Dec 2014 07:26

Archibald wrote:I can't view the vid (as mentioned above), but I'm not aware of any Beyonce videos where she gets naked or is molested and/or raped...
I will ask again "Exactly what part of her 'performance' is inciting others to rape/molest women??"


And I never said that. I said: "half-naked videos of Beyonce looking and behaving like a hooker (with the sole intention to add more millions to her über-millions she already screwed out of her fans), disgusting rap songs, commercial models with anorexia, win-at-all-cost behaviour and greed advertised as a good thing." Basically I was already a step further, criticizing the whole society of how they spoil our kids in general.

The vid you can´t see about Beyonce? Dressed in full latex... well, I can´t really describe it. You have got to see it. But one thing is for sure: I don´t want my daughter to behave like that.
And the newly advertised vid of her, she is indeed half-naked. TBH, I didn´t saw the vid yet, but I heard of, and can imagine it being true after she always tried "to top" her previous vids.

Archibald wrote:do you think there might be teenagers/young men now thinking that what they saw your band do is okay?


It´s not "my" band. I said I don´t like them in the first related post. I said it was a concert to remember because it was different to the others...
Still, I like Accept, Manowar, and who else much much more. I am more into true metal.
That Steel Panther needed to make a special show just indicates they are not that good as a band alone. Further, AFAIR the WAO is age restriced 16+ ...
OTOH, if Beyonce is that great of a singer, why does she need to spoil my daughter? If she is that great, the singing alone should be enough, right?
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10 Dec 2014 20:26

Quotes:

"I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor

"I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig." Andrea Dworkin

"The more famous and powerful I get the more power I have to hurt men." Sharon Stone

"The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race." Sally Miller Gearhart, in The Future – If There Is One – Is Female

"If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males." Mary Daly

"And if the professional rapist is to be separated from the average dominant heterosexual (male), it may be mainly a quantitative difference." Susan Griffin, Rape: The All-American Crime

"Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience." Catherine Comins

"I believe that women have a capacity for understanding and compassion which man structurally does not have, does not have it because he cannot have it. He’s just incapable of it." Barbara Jordan, former Congresswoman Jackie Speier

"Probably the only place where a man can feel really secure is in a maximum security prison, except for the imminent threat of release." Germaine Greer

"Women have their faults / men have only two: / everything they say / everything they do." Popular Feminist Graffiti6

Judge yourself.
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11 Dec 2014 03:01

FoxxyBrown1111 wrote:And the newly advertised vid of her, she is indeed half-naked. TBH, I didn´t saw the vid yet, but I heard of, and can imagine it being true after she always tried "to top" her previous vids.


careful with that one, you may not have been told/heard the actuallity ;)


FoxxyBrown1111 wrote:OTOH, if Beyonce is that great of a singer, why does she need to spoil my daughter? If she is that great, the singing alone should be enough, right?


Do you think that she'd sell many records by standing by herself in front of a microphone doing nothing? Do you think the whole "show" isn't dreamed up by the record execs? You know, the folks who make the real money from it. They (and we) know that sex sells. It's total tittilation for the target demographic.

There's a brilliant line in The Adventures of Ford Fairlane, where the record exec says; "And now we have to shift this wet-pr1ck, Kyle Troy, platinum just so the girls can have a CD cover to get wet to". Sums up the record industry pretty well - it's all show for the money, and the kids will buy into the likes of Beyonce long before they buy into Nana Mouskouri

How does she spoil your daughter, if your daughter knows what's actually going on?

Anyway, back to Hurricane Heathcliffe
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11 Dec 2014 03:46

Out of every 1,000 sexual assaults that occur in Canada, 12 are reported. Three of those result in convictions.
I have read a lot of stories from women since the Cosby and Ghomeshi stories broke, and I am absolutely convinced that they a) fear going to the police; and b) fear being re-victimized by a court system that makes it almost impossible to convict abusers.
That seems troubling to me. I have also learned that false accusations of rape are extremely rare.
Honestly, Foxxybrown, I have no idea what you're trying to do here other than diminishing the point of victims of Bill Cosby (whom you have already said you think is guilty.)
This may sound stupid, but if you're really concerned about the plight of downtrodden men in today's society, start another thread. I was really hoping this thread would focus on a show of solidarity for the plight of women and the barriers they face when it comes to things like being drugged and raped without their consent.
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11 Dec 2014 05:48

the major problems are in the military. and the biggest military besides china, are america. the numbers are astounding. wouldnt enter the military if i was a chick.
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11 Dec 2014 05:50

strauss kahn did it well tho, and hightailed it back to france. this was the cat who was gonna be the head of the IMF.
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11 Dec 2014 07:12

the delgados wrote:I have also learned that false accusations of rape are extremely rare.


Can you back this up with some evidence? Because what I've seen--e.g., a study I discussed upthread--suggests that false accusations are not at all rare.

I'm with you completely on the barriers to women reporting rape, but I'm troubled by the attitude of seemingly many women that this justifies a guilty-till-proven innocent attitude. Here's another example:

“‘Asking whether or not a victim is telling the truth is irrelevant,’ Ms. Hess proclaimed. ‘It’s just not important if they are telling the truth.’” Hess’s point is that as the college was only interested in “helping the victim” rather than reaching “justice,” it did not matter — indeed, it did not even occur to her — that the true victim could be the falsely accused.


I understand that the trauma caused by rape may result in so much confusion that the woman doesn't remember the events clearly. That if she gets some of the details wrong, that doesn't establish that the rape didn't happen. But the proper response to that is not to accept every accusation at face value.

I also can't agree with you that Foxxy's points are irrelevant. If you want to argue that he's wrong or exaggerating, fine, but the issue of false accusations is very much linked with the problem of reporting and investigating rape. For example here a woman argues that the UVA case ("Jackie") is evidence of a "victim culture gone mad", and makes the important point that false accusations hurt women as much as men, because when the falsity is exposed, it triggers a backlash that inhibits women who really were raped from reporting.

Erdely’s story did damage to the University of Virginia’s reputation, but more importantly, the story has done a tragic disservice to other victims of sexual violence who might be prevented from coming forward out of fear that their stories will have to withstand the scrutiny and default skepticism of police, university officials, and reporters.


Ever heard of the fable called The Little Boy who Cried Wolf?
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11 Dec 2014 11:13

The "1 of 5" lie Ms Maxwell used as "prove" in her rant, linked by me, against basic law principles, which led to the deletion of due process to 50% of US college students (the male ones), since now they are stolen their right to be heared their side of the story, and worse took the cases from law enforcement (police, state attorneys) in the hands of colleges (who shall not prosecute crimes). It would be commical ifn´t it would be so tragic true:

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2014/12/college_rape_campus_sexual_assault_is_a_serious_problem_but_the_efforts.html

"For the years 1995 to 2011, as the University of Colorado Denver’s Rennison explained to me, it found that an estimated 0.8 percent of noncollege females age 18-24 revealed that they were victims of threatened, attempted, or completed rape/sexual assault. Of the college females that age during that same time period, approximately 0.6 percent reported they experienced such attempted or completed crime.

That finding diverges wildly from the notion that one in five college women will be sexually assaulted by the time they graduate. That’s the number most often used to suggest there is overwhelming sexual violence on America’s college campuses. It comes from a 2007 study funded by the National Institute of Justice, called the Campus Sexual Assault Study, or CSA. (I cited it last year in a story on campus drinking and sexual assault.) The study asked 5,466 female college students at two public universities, one in the Midwest and one in the South, to answer an online survey about their experiences with sexual assault. The survey defined sexual assault as everything from nonconsensual sexual intercourse to such unwanted activities as “forced kissing,” “fondling,” and “rubbing up against you in a sexual way, even if it is over your clothes.”"

Further:

"Carol Tavris is a social psychologist and author of the feminist classic, The Mismeasure of Woman, and, with Elliot Aronson, Mistakes Were Made (but Not by Me). She says she is troubled by the blurring of distinctions between rape (notably by predatory males), unwanted sex (where one party agrees to sex not out of desire but to please or placate the partner), and the kind of consensual sex where both parties are so drunk they can barely remember what happened—and one of them later regrets it. She says, “Calling all of these kinds of sexual encounters ‘rape’ or ‘sexual assault’ doesn’t teach young women how to learn what they want sexually, let alone how to communicate what they want, or don’t want. It doesn’t teach them to take responsibility for their decisions, for their reluctance to speak up. Sexual communication is really hard—you don’t learn how to do it in a few weekends.”

Tavris also believes holding only men responsible for their sexual behavior has pernicious effects on women because it supports a victim identity that is already too prevalent in our society. “It’s so much easier to be a victim than to admit culpability, admit your own involvement, admit that you made a mistake,” she says. “It’s much easier to say it’s all his fault. Look, sometimes it is all his fault. That’s called rape. But ambiguities and unexpected decisions are part of many encounters, especially sexual ones.”"

And more:

"And it’s not just about conveying to young women the dangers of drinking. It’s equally important to tell young men about the jeopardy they face when having an alcohol-fueled sexual encounter at college. While women’s consumption is often considered a mitigating factor at campus tribunals, men’s consumption generally is not. This disparity is sex discrimination*." (* against males, for those who still didn´t got it yet)


I am thankful to have a daughter. And I am even more thankful that, if I had a son studiying in the once free and democratic USA, he is now open to the despotism that took place in basically all US colleges (by government force from the highest level, the gangster Obama regime & his cohorts). Young lives are destroyed forever for things that never happend.

My example of the concert which to many may have looked absurd, is sad truth (see above). It wasn´t far-fetched. Young male students are in the hands of mercy of their (wrong) accusers. I deeply hope that some rich guys sue the hell out of colleges until this injustice and plain insanity stops.
I further hope for everybody living in the USA (especially parents of boys) something I thought I´d never say: Kick the evil femi-nazis, that criminal joke of a president out of government and start at zero, even if it means the other (it now seems less evils) take control.

If "1 of 5" was really true, US colleges are more dangerous to women than to those living in war zones like Congo. Again it would be commical if not sad truth.

I pray for you all US parents, mothers, and fathers, that your son is speared the experiences as those of the wrongly accused Lacrosse players, Drew, and all the other young men whose lives were destroyed forever by a dangerous and sick applied agenda that started with Femi-Nazism.

Edit: Further, there is hope. I went trou the 1.850 comments of Maxwells dangerous propagandistic article. 99% were shocked and disgusted like me (women, parents, wrongly accused, rape victims themselves, forensic workers, lefties, righties, everybody). Where the femi-nazis were? Hidden in their holes, because they have zilch arguments. They prefered to go to her (Maxwells) Facebook site, sure to be proteced from fine Americans with common sense. Again: Expel this woman from the ABA, the WP, and basically all society events. But don´t worry, you blinded sick femi nazis. You are still winning, until the brave silent majority fnally stands up and say "enough is enough".

If that insanity all goes on further (most likely), I give a 100% guarantee: The end of society... right back to middle age and "Hexen-Verbrennung"... Only that the sex of the victims will have changed. You small but powerful number of personally disordered femi nazis want that, but the majority of fine Americans and people all over the world don´t want that!
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11 Dec 2014 11:29

blackcat wrote:strauss kahn did it well tho, and hightailed it back to france. this was the cat who was gonna be the head of the IMF.


He already was head of IMF. He was going to be the head of France ;)
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11 Dec 2014 14:56

Cliff Huxtable made an appearance on South Park last night... check it out brahs #ihatecartmanbrah #babyitscoldoutside

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12 Dec 2014 02:23

FoxxyBrown1111 wrote:If that insanity all goes on further (most likely), I give a 100% guarantee: The end of society... right back to middle age


you should take a look at present day India


not that that has anything to do with Billy C
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12 Dec 2014 03:46

FoxxyBrown1111 wrote:and “rubbing up against you in a sexual way, even if it is over your clothes.”


That´s what under Title IX written, become offical crimes under Obama as sexual violence.


But that (most cruel rapes & tortures)...
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/bild-1007646-787457.html

"‘lunch tray’ consisting of hummus, pasta, with sauce, nuts and raisins was ‘pureed’ and rectally infused."

"was later diagnosed with chronic hemorrhoids, an anal fissure, and symptomatic rectal prolapse."

"Regarding the rectal tube, if you place it and open up the IV tubing, the flow will self regulate, sloshing up the large intestines… What I infer is that you get a tube up as far as you can, then open the IV wide. No need to squeeze the bag – let gravity do the work."

And that´s only some of the true rapes. The other tortures belong in the politics threads I guess...



... is not against the US law & no crimes, "only" against morals (per definition of Obama & his speaker), and thus GWB & Co will not be indicted.


Understand who will. I do not, and 99.99 % of humans with at least 1% moral will not.

GWB, Cheney & cohorts are evil psychos.

Obamas "change"? Being a coward evil psycho who "prefers" drone wars. A super hypocrite. The worst sort of them all.

Digusting is a too soft word to describe...
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12 Dec 2014 04:21

Archibald wrote:careful with that one, you may not have been told/heard the actuallity ;)


Fair point. :)

Archibald wrote:Do you think that she'd sell many records by standing by herself in front of a microphone doing nothing?


No. It just underlines the fact I wrote in the music-thread that "singers" like Beyonce, Rihanna, Aguielera, LadyGaga & else sound like crybabies seemingly dying when putting their words out of their mouths.

Their live shows are extremely sexual. Just short of disgusting... I just wonder what that has to do with true music. :confused:

I think the mentioned "singers" would make great strippers if not at the right place at the right time with the right bribes for radio stations to play their "music".

Archibald wrote:Do you think the whole "show" isn't dreamed up by the record execs? You know, the folks who make the real money from it. They (and we) know that sex sells. It's total tittilation for the target demographic.


And yet (if great talented, which they are not) the mentioned "musicans" could just say no. They are already rich enough to take baths in dollar notes (as Beyonce & JayZ use to do). Greedy beyond self-esteem.

Archibald wrote:it's all show for the money, and the kids will buy into the likes of Beyonce


... yep I mentioned that some weeks ago in the NFL thread. USA is all show to srew the last Dollar out of the working class (being it business, politics, sports, music industry, you name it)... Cycling at least tries to look real even if they were 100% drug riddled (of which I doubt).


Archibald wrote:How does she spoil your daughter, if your daughter knows what's actually going on?


But she doesn´t know... too young... all I can see is 13 year old girls dressed and maked up like 20 year olds. I think that´s worse than a "sexual crime" like rubbing against each other fully clothed on a beer filled college party.

Merckx index wrote: makes the important point that false accusations hurt women as much as men, because when the falsity is exposed, it triggers a backlash that inhibits women who really were raped from reporting.


Can´t be repeated enough. Because that´s the cold hard truth. Femi nazis hurt women more than they help... skip that... they don´t help them at all.
It´s all highly political and about self-interest. These women with dangerous agendas and propaganda give a **** about true rape victims (as we already officially know, they don´t give a **** about men in general).

Archibald wrote:you should take a look at present day India


Ok... done...

53% of rape reports false:
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-53-rape-cases-filed-between-april-2013-and-july-2013-false-delhi-commission-of-women-2023334
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12 Dec 2014 06:51

Netserk wrote:He already was head of IMF. He was going to be the head of France ;)

yeah yeah yeah, damn. I know, and LAgard back in the 80s was a minister under Chirac was not she, before or after she the chief managing partner of Baker McKenzie, then she became the deputy under Kahn at IMF.

I knew Kahn was positioning himself for a tilte at Sarkozy from the socialist party taking over where the current President's ex with the sublime cheekbones was the chief.
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26 Dec 2014 10:32

Hey Merckx Index.
Sorry for the delay; I just saw your question regarding false accusations now.
A quick search yielded the following stats here in Canada: Acquaintance sexual assault is the most under-reported crime in Canada (6%).
Also, false accusations of sexual assault do not happen any more often than false reports of other crimes (2-4%)
Source--University of Alberta "Sexual Assault and the Law in Canada"
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