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Sugar Tax, Jamie oliver

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Re: Re:

22 Mar 2016 20:29

cellardoor wrote:
carolina wrote:yes, but how do you define sugary foods or fatty foods?

example, I usually buy 1 kg of peanut butter, made using only roasted peanuts. it's mostly fat, like any other nut butter on the market. I also have 1 kg of cashew butter, made using roasted cashews and a very little amount of vegetable oil. the nutritional facts are almost identical.

would it be fair to tax them differently just because one of them has a little bit of vegetable oil added?
there are a lot of food products that can be classified has healthy or non-healthy, it just depends on you ask.


I think you'd have to say saturated fats rather than fats in general. I guess the fat in nuts and vegetable oil is unsaturated.


what you wrote just confirms what I said before, there is still a severe lack of information.

saturated fats are not dangerous. that's just a myth propagated decades ago by an " observational study" that mistreated available information by selecting only what they wanted.
carolina
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Re: Re:

22 Mar 2016 21:05

carolina wrote:
cellardoor wrote:
carolina wrote:yes, but how do you define sugary foods or fatty foods?

example, I usually buy 1 kg of peanut butter, made using only roasted peanuts. it's mostly fat, like any other nut butter on the market. I also have 1 kg of cashew butter, made using roasted cashews and a very little amount of vegetable oil. the nutritional facts are almost identical.

would it be fair to tax them differently just because one of them has a little bit of vegetable oil added?
there are a lot of food products that can be classified has healthy or non-healthy, it just depends on you ask.


I think you'd have to say saturated fats rather than fats in general. I guess the fat in nuts and vegetable oil is unsaturated.


what you wrote just confirms what I said before, there is still a severe lack of information.

saturated fats are not dangerous. that's just a myth propagated decades ago by an " observational study" that mistreated available information by selecting only what they wanted.



I agree with everything you have said so far . Spot on.

Cellardoor I was specifically referring to extra tax/charges added to Junk food or sugar. I don't think its fair or really realistic to start picking what foods should have a "fat tax"
I may come across a bit harsh " a bit" but it really does come down to a individuals ability to control their eating habits. The same temptations are there for all of us. I really do feel though that the goal posts for what people want to look like are set way to high. We have photo shopped models who starve themselves and set a unrealistic standard. We have no end of Steroid taking fitness gurus who are telling us they got their perfect physique by using the supplements they are selling. We now have every other male actor jacked up and every other female actress a advert for surgery and botox . Its bonkers and sets a impossible standard for the majority of "normal" people. The whole way in which the media use " beautiful people" is a f%%%%%g disgrace. Every one is perfect.
ray j willings
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Re: Re:

22 Mar 2016 21:19

carolina wrote:
cellardoor wrote:
carolina wrote:yes, but how do you define sugary foods or fatty foods?

example, I usually buy 1 kg of peanut butter, made using only roasted peanuts. it's mostly fat, like any other nut butter on the market. I also have 1 kg of cashew butter, made using roasted cashews and a very little amount of vegetable oil. the nutritional facts are almost identical.

would it be fair to tax them differently just because one of them has a little bit of vegetable oil added?
there are a lot of food products that can be classified has healthy or non-healthy, it just depends on you ask.


I think you'd have to say saturated fats rather than fats in general. I guess the fat in nuts and vegetable oil is unsaturated.


what you wrote just confirms what I said before, there is still a severe lack of information.

saturated fats are not dangerous. that's just a myth propagated decades ago by an " observational study" that mistreated available information by selecting only what they wanted.


A quick check of wikipedia suggests that this topic is under debate and so I think it's a bit strong to say it's a "myth":

"The effect of saturated fat on cardiovascular disease is controversial.

Many health authorities such as the American Dietetic Association, the British Dietetic Association, American Heart Association, the World Heart Federation, the British National Health Service, among others, advise that saturated fat is a risk factor for cardiovascular disease. The World Health Organization in May 2015 recommends switching from saturated to unsaturated fats.

A number of systematic reviews have examined the relationship between saturated fat and cardiovascular disease and have come to different conclusions"
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22 Mar 2016 21:23

Ray J maybe it's worth exploring some anecdotal evidence that Python included in his post. 4 people around a kitchen table all consuming the same food(3F and 1 male) all with different outcomes w weight maintenance and gains.Now expand that kitchen table by a few million and have some of those seated come from different biological backgrounds,different sexes,ages,races,and on and on.A measurable number will have poor health outcomes no matter how much self control they exercise while at the table.
We got all up in arms when fast food places didn't offer milk or a non soda option for kids meals. Now you can get fruit or salad at places that previously only offered fried on the plate and sugar for a drink. We need to understand that if a million whites eat a plate of food daily and blacks,Asians and Hispanics all eat the same thing the health outcomes are different.
fatandfast
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Re:

22 Mar 2016 22:25

Maxiton wrote:Five Reasons Why High Fructose Corn Syrup Will Kill You

The current media debate about the benefits (or lack of harm) of high fructose corn syrup (HFCS) in our diet misses the obvious. The average American increased their consumption of HFCS (mostly from sugar sweetened drinks and processed food) from zero to over 60 pounds per person per year.

During that time period, obesity rates have more than tripled and diabetes incidence has increased more than seven fold.
Not perhaps the only cause, but a fact that cannot be ignored.


Doubt and confusion are the currency of deception, and they sow the seeds of complacency. These are used skillfully through massive print and television advertising campaigns by the Corn Refiners Association’s attempt to dispel the “myth” that HFCS is harmful and assert through the opinion of “medical and nutrition experts” that it is no different than cane sugar. It is a “natural” product that is a healthy part of our diet when used in moderation.

Except for one problem. When used in moderation it is a major cause of heart disease, obesity, cancer, dementia, liver failure, tooth decay, and more.


More here.

Reason #2...this is what people need to understand.

EDIT: Tax HFCS.
Last edited by jmdirt on 22 Mar 2016 22:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Re:

22 Mar 2016 22:32

cellardoor wrote:
carolina wrote:
cellardoor wrote:
carolina wrote:yes, but how do you define sugary foods or fatty foods?

example, I usually buy 1 kg of peanut butter, made using only roasted peanuts. it's mostly fat, like any other nut butter on the market. I also have 1 kg of cashew butter, made using roasted cashews and a very little amount of vegetable oil. the nutritional facts are almost identical.

would it be fair to tax them differently just because one of them has a little bit of vegetable oil added?
there are a lot of food products that can be classified has healthy or non-healthy, it just depends on you ask.


I think you'd have to say saturated fats rather than fats in general. I guess the fat in nuts and vegetable oil is unsaturated.


what you wrote just confirms what I said before, there is still a severe lack of information.

saturated fats are not dangerous. that's just a myth propagated decades ago by an " observational study" that mistreated available information by selecting only what they wanted.


A quick check of wikipedia suggests that this topic is under debate and so I think it's a bit strong to say it's a "myth":

"The effect of saturated fat on cardiovascular disease is controversial.

Many health authorities such as the American Dietetic Association, the British Dietetic Association, American Heart Association, the World Heart Federation, the British National Health Service, among others, advise that saturated fat is a risk factor for cardiovascular disease. The World Health Organization in May 2015 recommends switching from saturated to unsaturated fats.

A number of systematic reviews have examined the relationship between saturated fat and cardiovascular disease and have come to different conclusions"


and that will take us to what I wrote in bold.

how can we tax something if there is no definitive proof that it is bad?!
carolina
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Re:

22 Mar 2016 22:48

fatandfast wrote:Ray J maybe it's worth exploring some anecdotal evidence that Python included in his post. 4 people around a kitchen table all consuming the same food(3F and 1 male) all with different outcomes w weight maintenance and gains.Now expand that kitchen table by a few million and have some of those seated come from different biological backgrounds,different sexes,ages,races,and on and on.A measurable number will have poor health outcomes no matter how much self control they exercise while at the table.
We got all up in arms when fast food places didn't offer milk or a non soda option for kids meals. Now you can get fruit or salad at places that previously only offered fried on the plate and sugar for a drink. We need to understand that if a million whites eat a plate of food daily and blacks,Asians and Hispanics all eat the same thing the health outcomes are different.


I agree individual health comes into consideration but not race. I posted a link that shows what health issues can cause you to gain weight. If you are gaining weight and you are keeping within your calorie margin then you have a health issue.
ray j willings
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Re: Re:

23 Mar 2016 04:49

carolina wrote:
cellardoor wrote:
carolina wrote:
cellardoor wrote:
carolina wrote:yes, but how do you define sugary foods or fatty foods?

example, I usually buy 1 kg of peanut butter, made using only roasted peanuts. it's mostly fat, like any other nut butter on the market. I also have 1 kg of cashew butter, made using roasted cashews and a very little amount of vegetable oil. the nutritional facts are almost identical.

would it be fair to tax them differently just because one of them has a little bit of vegetable oil added?
there are a lot of food products that can be classified has healthy or non-healthy, it just depends on you ask.


I think you'd have to say saturated fats rather than fats in general. I guess the fat in nuts and vegetable oil is unsaturated.


what you wrote just confirms what I said before, there is still a severe lack of information.

saturated fats are not dangerous. that's just a myth propagated decades ago by an " observational study" that mistreated available information by selecting only what they wanted.


A quick check of wikipedia suggests that this topic is under debate and so I think it's a bit strong to say it's a "myth":

"The effect of saturated fat on cardiovascular disease is controversial.

Many health authorities such as the American Dietetic Association, the British Dietetic Association, American Heart Association, the World Heart Federation, the British National Health Service, among others, advise that saturated fat is a risk factor for cardiovascular disease. The World Health Organization in May 2015 recommends switching from saturated to unsaturated fats.

A number of systematic reviews have examined the relationship between saturated fat and cardiovascular disease and have come to different conclusions"


and that will take us to what I wrote in bold.

how can we tax something if there is no definitive proof that it is bad?!


I agree it is an issue. I think anyway what would happen is that the government would be constantly playing catch up as food producers find new and innovative ways of making their products taste just as nice while reducing the ingredients that are taxed. Generally things that taste nice (according to the way most people's palates have been trained) include something unhealthy in it, so they would just be switching one vice for another, potentially worse one.

However, there are foods where we have a good idea that they are healthy even in relatively large quantities and foods that are unhealthy at relatively low quantities. I agree with your earlier suggestion that tax breaks could be given to whole foods and I would personally fund that by removing the subsidies from things like HFCS.

In the UK we apply VAT to most goods and services, but not things that are considered essential to live like groceries. I think another way of looking at it is that certain processed food is not "essential" and is in fact a luxury item that would attract VAT. So, that's a slightly different way of looking at it that takes the argument away from whether specific nutrients are good or bad. It is still problematic as something like a kiwi fruit could be considered as exotic and therefore a luxury item.
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Re: Re:

23 Mar 2016 04:56

ray j willings wrote:
fatandfast wrote:Ray J maybe it's worth exploring some anecdotal evidence that Python included in his post. 4 people around a kitchen table all consuming the same food(3F and 1 male) all with different outcomes w weight maintenance and gains.Now expand that kitchen table by a few million and have some of those seated come from different biological backgrounds,different sexes,ages,races,and on and on.A measurable number will have poor health outcomes no matter how much self control they exercise while at the table.
We got all up in arms when fast food places didn't offer milk or a non soda option for kids meals. Now you can get fruit or salad at places that previously only offered fried on the plate and sugar for a drink. We need to understand that if a million whites eat a plate of food daily and blacks,Asians and Hispanics all eat the same thing the health outcomes are different.


I agree individual health comes into consideration but not race. I posted a link that shows what health issues can cause you to gain weight. If you are gaining weight and you are keeping within your calorie margin then you have a health issue.


For anyone who is having weight issues, I've heard good things about this site for tracking the exercise that you do and the nutrients that you consume. https://cronometer.com/
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23 Mar 2016 11:12

I normaly use myfitnesspal, because it has a larger database, but I used cronometer for a while and it is an excelent tool to see if you're reaching all your dietary needs. myfitnesspal only allows to track 3 or 4 vitamins and minerals, but with cronometer you can track everything.

I would advise, however, to weight your food with a scale, because it is very dificult to eyeball the amount you eat. unless you have several months of experience weighing food, your not going to estimate the food you ate correctly.

I would also advise not to track your exercise, because it always overestimates by a big amount the calories you actualy spent.
carolina
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Re:

23 Mar 2016 14:20

carolina wrote:I normaly use myfitnesspal, because it has a larger database, but I used cronometer for a while and it is an excelent tool to see if you're reaching all your dietary needs. myfitnesspal only allows to track 3 or 4 vitamins and minerals, but with cronometer you can track everything.

I would advise, however, to weight your food with a scale, because it is very dificult to eyeball the amount you eat. unless you have several months of experience weighing food, your not going to estimate the food you ate correctly.

I would also advise not to track your exercise, because it always overestimates by a big amount the calories you actualy spent.



And don't forget to keep a diary of what you have eaten and how you feel and how well you sleep.
Over time you will see what works for you.
ray j willings
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Re: Re:

23 Mar 2016 15:46

ray j willings wrote:
carolina wrote:I normaly use myfitnesspal, because it has a larger database, but I used cronometer for a while and it is an excelent tool to see if you're reaching all your dietary needs. myfitnesspal only allows to track 3 or 4 vitamins and minerals, but with cronometer you can track everything.

I would advise, however, to weight your food with a scale, because it is very dificult to eyeball the amount you eat. unless you have several months of experience weighing food, your not going to estimate the food you ate correctly.

I would also advise not to track your exercise, because it always overestimates by a big amount the calories you actualy spent.



And don't forget to keep a diary of what you have eaten and how you feel and how well you sleep.
Over time you will see what works for you.

I am asking to click your lense out a couple of times not too wide but wider
.Most are calling diabetes in India an epidemic. With some saying that there are already @65 million w type2 and growing fast. People w no toilets that can't read or write, let alone keep a diary. Things need to be done on a systematic level anywhere they can because a title wave of bad health is sweeping the planet, not just in the West. Strategy and solutions need to be looked at on a grand scale w those who have lots of money \credit and science taking the leadership roles.
W the US still arguing that building structures, paving everything in sight, putting millions more cars on the road,industrializing more of the planet and cutting down forrests everywhere as not a possible cause of climate change I am not real optimistic that they will take action and try and help. Instead they blame the black inner city mom who has x to spend and can't buy a head of lettuce in her neighbor. But man there are bags of chips, plastic sleeves of donuts and soda coming out the azz.
I need to step away from my tablet so I can generate more tax dollars to finance health care when some poor soul goes to the ER w bad eyesight or a swollen limb that I will pay to have lopped off rather
than pay attention to today,now and what people do and don't have and what they are doing.
When Jamie Oliver came to the US and suggested that tatter tots and French fries were not good food he was plainly and angerily asked "what is wrong w potatoes"!!!!
The guy was lucky to get out of here alive
fatandfast
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Re: Re:

23 Mar 2016 16:23

ray j willings wrote:
And don't forget to keep a diary of what you have eaten and how you feel and how well you sleep.
Over time you will see what works for you.


I already track (almost) everything I eat. It's what works best for me. Since I changed my diet to mostly whole foods and started eating lots of vegetables, I started to sleep like a baby :D
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23 Mar 2016 17:24

http://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2458-13-1072

Evidence that a tax on sugar sweetened beverages reduces the obesity rate: a meta-analysis

Full article can be downloaded as a pdf.

Key points:
A tax on sugary drinks, tend to lead to a reduction in consumption of them
There is however only weak evidence of a slight reduction in the weight of the populations studied.
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Re: Re:

23 Mar 2016 19:02

carolina wrote:
ray j willings wrote:
And don't forget to keep a diary of what you have eaten and how you feel and how well you sleep.
Over time you will see what works for you.


I already track (almost) everything I eat. It's what works best for me. Since I changed my diet to mostly whole foods and started eating lots of vegetables, I started to sleep like a baby :D


The best thing I did last year was to stop drinking caffine coke.
That's made a big difference to my energy. I would love to eat more vegetables and salads but to many green leaf foods slow my thyroid down. I could eat broccoli till its coming out of my ears.
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22 Jan 2019 02:31

Meanwhile 5 billion lean asians, africans and indians are carbing up every day and not having excess weight issues like their cousins who can afford more meat and dairy.

Look how lean I stay regardless of my fitness levels. All I do is carb up and keep fat intake very low. Look at all my gf's over the years and how skinny they stay and get when they follow the same template.

It aint rocket science - the fat you eat is the fat you wear. Why eat eggs, meat, whey etc like a bodybuilder if you are trying to look like a GC cyclist or ballerina?
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Re:

22 Jan 2019 12:39

durianrider wrote:Meanwhile 5 billion lean asians, africans and indians are carbing up every day and not having excess weight issues like their cousins who can afford more meat and dairy.

Look how lean I stay regardless of my fitness levels. All I do is carb up and keep fat intake very low. Look at all my gf's over the years and how skinny they stay and get when they follow the same template.

It aint rocket science - the fat you eat is the fat you wear. Why eat eggs, meat, whey etc like a bodybuilder if you are trying to look like a GC cyclist or ballerina?

And how about a gentle martial artist alike?
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Re: Sugar Tax, Jamie oliver

23 Jan 2019 11:47

So is MacDonalds good for you or not?
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23 Jan 2019 12:36

Can't harm occasionally, I guess.
As long the line's quick.
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25 Jan 2019 12:53

sienna wrote:So is MacDonalds good for you or not?


.............ask a hungry man.......................no food is bad for one (unless it's rancid)

diets could often be better however................

shopping bought a big jar of jam...........slap it on good 'n thick..............sod jamie

and his fat chubby cherub cheeks.....................
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