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26 Feb 2018 11:44

just finished listening to the corbyn brexit speeech (he's taking Qs now...). some immediate impressions:

1. he's a good, well-collected ideas wise speaker. dont know how effective it is.
2. as a european, i cant disagree with his ideas on staying in the customs union. it would imo be least upsetting to rest of europe. just hope he's realized that britain is losing then the right to vote and veto. and rightly so when one is seeking to exit !
3. completely agree with his take on the citizens of brirain being the citizens of the world and the unacceptability of engaging in regime changes. that was a dig at the united states foreign policy and their tory lap dogs.
4. i didn't quite understand his take on the refugees/immigrants....other than the general expected liberal motherhoods. that imo is one of the hardest drivers right that requires a very nuanced approach. and not just in britain.
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User avatar python
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Re:

26 Feb 2018 12:25

python wrote:just finished listening to the corbyn brexit speeech (he's taking Qs now...). some immediate impressions:

1. he's a good, well-collected ideas wise speaker. dont know how effective it is.
2. as a european, i cant disagree with his ideas on staying in the customs union. it would imo be least upsetting to rest of europe. just hope he's realized that britain is losing then the right to vote and veto. and rightly so when one is seeking to exit !
3. completely agree with his take on the citizens of brirain being the citizens of the world and the unacceptability of engaging in regime changes. that was a dig at the united states foreign policy and their tory lap dogs.
4. i didn't quite understand his take on the refugees/immigrants....other than the general expected liberal motherhoods. that imo is one of the hardest drivers right that requires a very nuanced approach. and not just in britain.

Full text for those who missed it:

https://labour.org.uk/press/jeremy-corbyn-full-speech-britain-brexit/
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26 Feb 2018 19:27

The issue right now for the UK is: either you have no tariffs etc and you stay in the single market/customs union, but have no control over immigration (which in all honesty is basically a non-issue in reality) and no ability to have fta with third parties, or you have tariffs and lose much of the city services etc. which are crucial to a uk economy which revolves around them, along with quite a few of the remaining manufacturing jobs. So basically stay in an objectively worse version of the eu, or a break which will probably have negative effects. The second is more palatable to the public.

But I still see no plus-side to this. A dependent (by nature, it's one vs 27) relationship formed over 45 years (and longer, since post-war really) is hard to undo in two. Perhaps in twenty years time we will have been able to make up for the inevitable loss in trade we'll have in regards to the eu with emerging countries and refocus our exports, but even then I doubt if many of the powerful countries are willing to let smaller countries catch up on them and overtake them - so the market in said countries will still be fairly small. And we can't export services to the USA, Japan, China or India (biggest four potential partners) because quite simply there is no demand for them in those areas, especially if they can find it cheaper elsewhere. Perhaps to further compound our issues, I think that with the approaching automation most developing countries will not head towards manufacturing from agriculture but straight to tertiary services, which will decapitate our whole approach to whatever it is liam fox is in charge of. Like I said, I doubt there are many positives to come away from this - I'd appreciate anyone to tell me I'm wrong and instil some optimism.

If I were in charge, I'd accept v. small tariffs in certain areas (the eu chooses, i'm not deluded, i know they hold the cards), for the ability to do free trade agreements elsewhere; whilst simultaneously accepting immigration from eu countries, with the benefit provision that was always there anyway, and abiding by eu regulations (which are mostly positive imo anyway).
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27 Feb 2018 14:25

User avatar Jagartrott
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Re: British politics

28 Feb 2018 13:47

Toys R Us & Maplins go under - 5,000 to lose work.

Meanwhile, Statistics body INSEE has just raised its forecast for French growth last year to 2%, up from 1.9%. That confirms that 2017 was the best year for France’s economy since 2011.

mmm....
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06 Mar 2018 06:02

Former Russian spy critically ill in UK 'after exposure to substance'

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/05/salisbury-incident-critically-ill-man-is-former-russian-spy-sergei-skripal?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Feeding straight into the current anti-Russian narrative
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Re:

06 Mar 2018 08:22

macbindle wrote:Former Russian spy critically ill in UK 'after exposure to substance'

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/05/salisbury-incident-critically-ill-man-is-former-russian-spy-sergei-skripal?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Feeding straight into the current anti-Russian narrative


Déjà vu all over again?
Image

Froome's sample? :D
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06 Mar 2018 08:27

:D :D :D
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Re:

06 Mar 2018 10:36

Brullnux wrote:The issue right now for the UK is: either you have no tariffs etc and you stay in the single market/customs union, but have no control over immigration (which in all honesty is basically a non-issue in reality) and no ability to have fta with third parties, or you have tariffs and lose much of the city services etc. which are crucial to a uk economy which revolves around them, along with quite a few of the remaining manufacturing jobs. So basically stay in an objectively worse version of the eu, or a break which will probably have negative effects. The second is more palatable to the public.

But I still see no plus-side to this. A dependent (by nature, it's one vs 27) relationship formed over 45 years (and longer, since post-war really) is hard to undo in two. Perhaps in twenty years time we will have been able to make up for the inevitable loss in trade we'll have in regards to the eu with emerging countries and refocus our exports, but even then I doubt if many of the powerful countries are willing to let smaller countries catch up on them and overtake them - so the market in said countries will still be fairly small. And we can't export services to the USA, Japan, China or India (biggest four potential partners) because quite simply there is no demand for them in those areas, especially if they can find it cheaper elsewhere. Perhaps to further compound our issues, I think that with the approaching automation most developing countries will not head towards manufacturing from agriculture but straight to tertiary services, which will decapitate our whole approach to whatever it is liam fox is in charge of. Like I said, I doubt there are many positives to come away from this - I'd appreciate anyone to tell me I'm wrong and instil some optimism.

If I were in charge, I'd accept v. small tariffs in certain areas (the eu chooses, i'm not deluded, i know they hold the cards), for the ability to do free trade agreements elsewhere; whilst simultaneously accepting immigration from eu countries, with the benefit provision that was always there anyway, and abiding by eu regulations (which are mostly positive imo anyway).


How would you deal with the hard border between Northern Ireland/Republic of Ireland that this necessitate? We can't have FTAs elsewhere and a soft border which would allow free flow of these goods into the EU.
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07 Mar 2018 08:17

My contacts in the government tell me what I think we already knew. Brexit has paralysed government and civil service. Everyone is preoccupied with working on it. Other important issues are being ignored.

What a stupid stupid mess.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
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Re: Re:

07 Mar 2018 20:43

King Boonen wrote:
Brullnux wrote:The issue right now for the UK is: either you have no tariffs etc and you stay in the single market/customs union, but have no control over immigration (which in all honesty is basically a non-issue in reality) and no ability to have fta with third parties, or you have tariffs and lose much of the city services etc. which are crucial to a uk economy which revolves around them, along with quite a few of the remaining manufacturing jobs. So basically stay in an objectively worse version of the eu, or a break which will probably have negative effects. The second is more palatable to the public.

But I still see no plus-side to this. A dependent (by nature, it's one vs 27) relationship formed over 45 years (and longer, since post-war really) is hard to undo in two. Perhaps in twenty years time we will have been able to make up for the inevitable loss in trade we'll have in regards to the eu with emerging countries and refocus our exports, but even then I doubt if many of the powerful countries are willing to let smaller countries catch up on them and overtake them - so the market in said countries will still be fairly small. And we can't export services to the USA, Japan, China or India (biggest four potential partners) because quite simply there is no demand for them in those areas, especially if they can find it cheaper elsewhere. Perhaps to further compound our issues, I think that with the approaching automation most developing countries will not head towards manufacturing from agriculture but straight to tertiary services, which will decapitate our whole approach to whatever it is liam fox is in charge of. Like I said, I doubt there are many positives to come away from this - I'd appreciate anyone to tell me I'm wrong and instil some optimism.

If I were in charge, I'd accept v. small tariffs in certain areas (the eu chooses, i'm not deluded, i know they hold the cards), for the ability to do free trade agreements elsewhere; whilst simultaneously accepting immigration from eu countries, with the benefit provision that was always there anyway, and abiding by eu regulations (which are mostly positive imo anyway).


How would you deal with the hard border between Northern Ireland/Republic of Ireland that this necessitate? We can't have FTAs elsewhere and a soft border which would allow free flow of these goods into the EU.


Tiocfaidh ár lá
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Re: Re:

08 Mar 2018 12:15

Brullnux wrote:
King Boonen wrote:
Brullnux wrote:The issue right now for the UK is: either you have no tariffs etc and you stay in the single market/customs union, but have no control over immigration (which in all honesty is basically a non-issue in reality) and no ability to have fta with third parties, or you have tariffs and lose much of the city services etc. which are crucial to a uk economy which revolves around them, along with quite a few of the remaining manufacturing jobs. So basically stay in an objectively worse version of the eu, or a break which will probably have negative effects. The second is more palatable to the public.

But I still see no plus-side to this. A dependent (by nature, it's one vs 27) relationship formed over 45 years (and longer, since post-war really) is hard to undo in two. Perhaps in twenty years time we will have been able to make up for the inevitable loss in trade we'll have in regards to the eu with emerging countries and refocus our exports, but even then I doubt if many of the powerful countries are willing to let smaller countries catch up on them and overtake them - so the market in said countries will still be fairly small. And we can't export services to the USA, Japan, China or India (biggest four potential partners) because quite simply there is no demand for them in those areas, especially if they can find it cheaper elsewhere. Perhaps to further compound our issues, I think that with the approaching automation most developing countries will not head towards manufacturing from agriculture but straight to tertiary services, which will decapitate our whole approach to whatever it is liam fox is in charge of. Like I said, I doubt there are many positives to come away from this - I'd appreciate anyone to tell me I'm wrong and instil some optimism.

If I were in charge, I'd accept v. small tariffs in certain areas (the eu chooses, i'm not deluded, i know they hold the cards), for the ability to do free trade agreements elsewhere; whilst simultaneously accepting immigration from eu countries, with the benefit provision that was always there anyway, and abiding by eu regulations (which are mostly positive imo anyway).


How would you deal with the hard border between Northern Ireland/Republic of Ireland that this necessitate? We can't have FTAs elsewhere and a soft border which would allow free flow of these goods into the EU.


Tiocfaidh ár lá


Which would work perfectly, if it wasn't for a minority government propped up by the DUP.
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15 Mar 2018 08:15

As the squbaling crew of the SS UK Titanic head towards the Brexit iceberg, some are already grabbing a lifeboat

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/unilever-moves-headquarters-rotterdam-london-brexit-100-years-a8256736.html
Unilever has announced that it will be moving its legal headquarters to Rotterdam, dealing a sharp blow to Britain’s status as a European business hub ahead of Brexit.

The consumer goods giant, which is the UK’s third largest company, on Thursday said that it was shaking up its corporate structure. Under the changes the company will operate three divisions. Its beauty and personal care division and its home care division will be based in London, while its foods and refreshment division will be based in Rotterdam.

It said that it also intends to simplify from its current structure of being two legal entities, transforming into one legal entity that will be incorporated in the Netherlands.
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15 Mar 2018 09:35

As bad as May is I just couldn't see our country being run by communist and lets not beat about the bush, that's what Corbyn and McDonnell are, then you have that clown Abbott backing them up and she is nothing but a racist buffoon, right now Labour are an amazing gift to the Tories.

I will never vote Labour as long as they 2 are running it and I will never ever vote SNP
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15 Mar 2018 09:51

So you think Corbyn would try to convert the UK economy to a communist one, do you?

If the answer is no then why would what you think are Cirbyn's ideals have any bearing on anything?
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Re:

15 Mar 2018 10:18

macbindle wrote:So you think Corbyn would try to convert the UK economy to a communist one, do you?

If the answer is no then why would what you think are Cirbyn's ideals have any bearing on anything?

are you denying that the Labour leaders haven't communist views?

they just end up like every other MP, just saying what they think the public want to hear.

they have went that far left the Labour won't get voted in with these 2 running it
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Re: Re:

15 Mar 2018 15:52

rick james wrote:
macbindle wrote:So you think Corbyn would try to convert the UK economy to a communist one, do you?

If the answer is no then why would what you think are Cirbyn's ideals have any bearing on anything?

are you denying that the Labour leaders haven't communist views?

they just end up like every other MP, just saying what they think the public want to hear.

they have went that far left the Labour won't get voted in with these 2 running it


You haven't answered my question Rick. It's the one with a question mark.

In answer to the bolded quote of you, which communist views? Abolition of private property? Collective ownership of the means of production? Or just plain old dialectical materialism?

Which???

I guess you think this is the first Russian diplomat expelled from the UK:

Image

;) :D
Last edited by macbindle on 15 Mar 2018 16:08, edited 1 time in total.
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15 Mar 2018 15:56

Diamat seems alive and well on the entropic axis.
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15 Mar 2018 16:37

Well I suppose it would have to be. Not an area I know much about, admittedly. I struggle to read a page of a book without falling asleep these days.

Funny though. Thinking about diamat has me reflecting on a visit to the USSR in the mid-eighties and the proliferation of philosophical writings taught to all. (as long as they were of the right sort natch)

Back in the UK, we had to make do with a duality of scripture and Viz. Despite that there was still a greater political consciousness then there is now...
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Re:

17 Mar 2018 04:06

rick james wrote:As bad as May is I just couldn't see our country being run by communist and lets not beat about the bush, that's what Corbyn and McDonnell are, then you have that clown Abbott backing them up and she is nothing but a racist buffoon, right now Labour are an amazing gift to the Tories.

I will never vote Labour as long as they 2 are running it and I will never ever vote SNP

Why will you never SNP, Dick. It's a Socialist party, indeed, the biggest party, in Scotland by a country mile, doing a great job to boot.
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