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British politics

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Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Valv.Piti, Pricey_sky, Tonton, King Boonen

09 Jun 2017 05:40

Theresa May's picture now included in every dictionary to explain 'to backfire'.
Brexit negotations due to start in 10 days. Erm...
User avatar Jagartrott
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09 Jun 2017 06:44

Shocking night for May, a month ago it looked like the Tories would steamroller this election and the British public have given her a big vote of no-confidence. Her position as PM is untenable.

Good result for Corbyn and Labour, imagine if his cabinet had backed him from the start...
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09 Jun 2017 08:02

It's the youth vote (and turnout), stupid.
I'm especially happy for Piers Morgan, who predicted a 100+ seat majority for the Tories. Up yours.
User avatar Jagartrott
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Re:

09 Jun 2017 09:08

SeriousSam wrote:Though the Conservatives retain a plurality, weak and wobbly Theresa May cannot continue to lead. These testing times call for a new PM. Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson

Make it happen :D
kingjr
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09 Jun 2017 10:16

Cameron's misjudged Brexit gamble and May's election own-goal show how out of touch politicians are.
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User avatar Robert5091
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09 Jun 2017 10:29

Not sure if the british politicians are poor gamblers or the brits are good at exposing gamblers...
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09 Jun 2017 10:51

Imagine what Labour might have achieved if they hadn't been actively trying to sabotage their own leader for the past 2 years...
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User avatar King Boonen
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Re:

09 Jun 2017 10:54

King Boonen wrote:Imagine what Labour might have achieved if they hadn't been actively trying to sabotage their own leader for the past 2 years...

It truly is a shame that the rest of the party is about as loyal as Corbyn was himself...
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09 Jun 2017 15:31

Very different circumstances though.

At any rate, this result effectively cleanses the Labour party of any lingering Blairism
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09 Jun 2017 15:38

So Sam, what did the market have as odds for a conservative majority? :p
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Re:

09 Jun 2017 16:06

Netserk wrote:So Sam, what did the market have as odds for a conservative majority? :p

I checked just before the polling stations closed (so before the exit poll was announced) with my bookie and it was 1/6 for a majority...
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Re:

09 Jun 2017 16:56

SeriousSam wrote:Very different circumstances though.

At any rate, this result effectively cleanses the Labour party of any lingering Blairism

Yes, even Chukka Umunna has said he'll accept a shadow cabinet position, a clear break from his previous position. I wonder how Hilary Benn, John Mann and Ben Bradshaw feel about this. The fact of the matter is that Momentum, although they are in times of non-election pretty annoying and sometimes far too aggressive and offensive, are really good for the party during elections and its campaigning so have to be kept motivated.

python wrote:Not sure if the british politicians are poor gamblers or the brits are good at exposing gamblers...

Both, I think. The EU referendum was never a risk worth taking for Cameron, and he was way too arrogant and assumed victory, despite the polls showing a Leave lead until the last week. This one was a much more calculate gamble, but the British people found her, and the tabloids out. For 10 months she was put under no scrutiny whatsoever, partly because Corbyn isn't good at PMQs, partly because Labour were tearing themselves apart and partly because the most influential newspapers collectively decided she was the second coming. She was put under pressure for a month and a half, and she managed to blow a 25 point lead, and reduced it down to two. Helped by Labour's excellent campaign.

Jagartrott wrote:It's the youth vote (and turnout), stupid.
I'm especially happy for Piers Morgan, who predicted a 100+ seat majority for the Tories. Up yours.

Absolutely. Not only Piers Morgan, but Iain Dale, Dan Hodges, Matthew d'Ancona, Nick Cohen, Tim Shipman, Paul Dacre and Rupert Murdoch (who reportedly left the Sun's election night after seeing the exit poll). Worth noting that overall turnout was only 68%, only 2.5% up on last time, and if an increased turnout truly helps Labour, then there is still a long way to go. This election gave proof (if any was needed) that when young people vote, they can make a difference. Take Canterbury: it has been Conservative or Unionist since 1879. Not even Blair won it; yet Labour took it with a 20% vote increase, because young people turned out in droves.


Anyway, May doesn't resign, and strikes a deal with the DUP (well, not a deal, an alliance with some of the proper nasties of British politics) before telling her cabinet. Maybot is back. I imagine she did this because BoJo and Hammond would have kicked her out before she could do anything. But MPs are turning against her, and could ther be a vote of no confidence soon...? We will see. She has been forced, though, to confirm that the main five offices will remain unchanged: she had reportedly planned to move Rudd to Chancellor, Ben Gummer to Brexit, Davis to Foreign Office (maybe), BoJo to party chairman and Hammond far, far away. But Gummer lost his seat (closest thing we got to a Portillo moment), and she lost her majority so fat chance she'll get away with doing anything now.


Incidentally, while we are on the subject of Amber Rudd, she had an interesting moment last night. They counted the votes in Hastings and Rye, and she had lost. She she ordered a recount, but she still lost. So she asked for another one, but still lost. And another one, and this time they found 400 votes from the magic vote tree and she won. Similar stories happened throughout the country with Tories calling for recounts in close seats (like Kensington). But the Rudd story was impressive. Make of it what you will.
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09 Jun 2017 17:21

The first meeting of the 1922 committee could be an nteresting one. Also, I was aware about Amber Rudd recounts, but not that she lost four times. Similar with Zac Goldsmith in Richmond - upset for Sarah Olney who barely had time to find her way around the PoW
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09 Jun 2017 22:10

@ferryman, how do you feel about the result? I imagine mixed: happy with UK result as a whole with the Tories creating chaos for themselves, but sad that most the Tory gains came in Scotland rather than England/Wales. Personally I was most upset by the loss of Angus Robertson - I've never warmed to Salmond at all but Robertson has been excellent, sometimes the main opposition in the past two years. The nats and the left will miss him. But I'm glad Mhairi Black held off the Labour surge and held her seat, she's also good and it's nice to see someone so young representing her constituents.
Brullnux
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Re: British politics

09 Jun 2017 23:48

.....hmmm....that was an interesting result, correct ?.....so the Cons kinda euchred themselves didn't they ?....and they end up having to play with this crew to form a government.....

Remember when the DUP tried to sue the Ulster Museum for having an exhibition on evolution and not creationism. Great bunch of lads


....have I kinda got it sorta straight ?.....

Cheers
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Re:

10 Jun 2017 01:53

[quote="Brullnux"]@ferryman, how do you feel about the result? I imagine mixed: happy with UK result as a whole with the Tories creating chaos for themselves, but sad that most the Tory gains came in Scotland rather than England/Wales. Personally I was most upset by the loss of Angus Robertson - I've never warmed to Salmond at all but Robertson has been excellent, sometimes the main opposition in the past two years. The nats and the left will miss him. But I'm glad Mhairi Black held off the Labour surge and held her seat, she's also good and it's nice to see someone so young representing her constituents.[/Abquote]
In Scotland, a wee bit surprised at the Tory vote, but not overly disappointed or despondent with the SNP vote. The 56 out of 59 at the last GE was a once in a century turn out. 35 out of 69 is still a healthy endorsement, given that all 3 pro union parties up here made it all about Indyref2. Losing Robertson is a blow. Not so much Salmond. Edinburgh/Glasgow/Dundee, are still SNP. Delighted to see a Labour resurgence overall and Plaid Cymru getting another seat:)

ps if anyone reading this thinks your vote doesn't count, it does!! SNP won Fife North East by two votes!!!
User avatar ferryman
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Re: British politics

10 Jun 2017 06:35

blutto wrote:.....hmmm....that was an interesting result, correct ?.....so the Cons kinda euchred themselves didn't they ?....and they end up having to play with this crew to form a government.....

Remember when the DUP tried to sue the Ulster Museum for having an exhibition on evolution and not creationism. Great bunch of lads


....have I kinda got it sorta straight ?.....

DUP have several creationists in their ranks, climate deniers, are opposed to gay marriage, abortion, and have some other ideas that do not match with any other party. Several within the conservative party aren't very happy with May's decision to link up with DUP. She did it to save her position, but she's not safe yet (and the deal with DUP still has to be negotiated).
User avatar Jagartrott
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10 Jun 2017 07:24

Expect another election in the autumn, meanwhile the 2 year clock will just keep ticking
del1962
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Re: Re:

10 Jun 2017 08:47

ferryman wrote:ps if anyone reading this thinks your vote doesn't count, it does!! SNP won Fife North East by two votes!!!


But 2 isn't 1, and therefore every single vote in that constituency had absolutely no effect on the outcome

Another general election where every voter might as well have thrown their vote into the rubbish bin. The probability that this will be the case in the next generation election as well is high.

However, due to the unfair disproportionality of FPTP compared to PR, canvassing efforts by individuals in marginal seats do have a chance to have an impact, and though it is unlikely your vote will have any effect, the chance is in the 1 in 1000s range, as opposed to the 1 in millions range you get with fairer systems like PR.
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Re: British politics

10 Jun 2017 09:03

Jagartrott wrote:
blutto wrote:.....hmmm....that was an interesting result, correct ?.....so the Cons kinda euchred themselves didn't they ?....and they end up having to play with this crew to form a government.....

Remember when the DUP tried to sue the Ulster Museum for having an exhibition on evolution and not creationism. Great bunch of lads


....have I kinda got it sorta straight ?.....

DUP have several creationists in their ranks, climate deniers, are opposed to gay marriage, abortion, and have some other ideas that do not match with any other party. Several within the conservative party aren't very happy with May's decision to link up with DUP. She did it to save her position, but she's not safe yet (and the deal with DUP still has to be negotiated).

Davidson, who is gay, doesn't like it very much. And crucially, there are more Scottish Tory MPs than DUP MPs, and their allegiance lies with Davidson, not May.

This is the beauty of British Politics and the FPTP system:
Image
Lord Buckethead, The Monster Raving Loony Party, Elmo, and the Prime Minister Theresa May all standing for the same election
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