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Re:

19 Mar 2018 13:27

macbindle wrote:
Lupi33x wrote:
macbindle wrote:
Lupi33x wrote:Poor Ms May doesn't have the balls to extract her failing nation from the German Empire.


Firstly, you are ignorant of the domestic politics at play, secondly you are ignorant of the nature of the EU.

Is there a topic that you actually know something about? Perhaps we could discuss that? It would certainly be more edifying than watching you parade your ignorance as a virtue.


If you can't see the EU for what it is, that's your problem not mine.
Too bad your prime minister is too weak to execute the will of the people for independence.


It's not the will of the people. It's the will of 52% of those that were eligible to vote that voted.



Lupi33x wrote:So you don't believe in democracy?


macbindle wrote:Democracy depends on the quality of the question fed into it.
...
There is a lot to be said about the nature of democracy, ...


macbindle wrote:Yes, the left hate democracy.

The right love democracy because Hitler.


What's interesting is that you support your country remaining in the 4th Reich.
Lupi33x
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19 Mar 2018 13:37

Your bolded quote is me pointing out that the UK referendum vote is not"the will of the people", it is the will of half of those who voted.....or do the other half not qualify as part of "the people"?

The second quote is pointing out that Hitler rose to power democratically.

So again, quote where I said whatever it is that you are saying that I said. Your misinterpretation doesn't count, I'm afraid.
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Re:

19 Mar 2018 13:51

macbindle wrote:Your bolded quote is me pointing out that the UK referendum vote is not"the will of the people", it is the will of half of those who voted.....or do the other half not qualify as part of "the people"?

The second quote is pointing out that Hitler rose to power democratically.

So again, quote where I said whatever it is that you are saying that I said. Your misinterpretation doesn't count, I'm afraid.


Democracy is majority rule. Majority voted for Brexit. If you can't accept that outcome then you don't support democracy. This should be very simple to understand.

You brought up Hitler as you always do. You seem determined to prove Godwin's Law in one post most of the time. Obsessed?
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19 Mar 2018 14:08

So no quote of mine proving your claim then. Thought not.

You clearly don't understand the paradoxical nature of democracy.
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Re:

19 Mar 2018 14:12

macbindle wrote:So no quote of mine proving your claim then. Thought not.

You clearly don't understand the paradoxical nature of democracy.


I fully understand that you don't accept it when you lose and "its because Nazi's won". You've made that clear.
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19 Mar 2018 14:23

Nope. That is your interpretation, but as we know your literary skills are somewhat undeveloped.

You don't understand that democracy can produce bad decisions e.g.. Hitler.
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Re:

19 Mar 2018 14:42

macbindle wrote:Nope. That is your interpretation, but as we know your literary skills are somewhat undeveloped.

You don't understand that democracy can produce bad decisions e.g.. Hitler.


Meanwhile the majority of the media propaganda and celebrities were telling the general public to remain.
If not for that it would've been an even greater margin for exiting.

I highly doubt the public were going against the tide of the press back in 1933.

You were just wrong. If you want to remain in the German empire that's your business. The majority of your countrymen don't.
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19 Mar 2018 14:48

Wrong again.

There are 65 million people in the UK. Only 17 million voted Leave.
Last edited by macbindle on 19 Mar 2018 15:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Re:

19 Mar 2018 15:08

macbindle wrote:Wrong again.

There are 65 million people in the UK. Only 17 million voted Leave.

Wow, what a way to spin bad news for your lot
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Re: Re:

19 Mar 2018 15:22

rick james wrote:
macbindle wrote:Wrong again.

There are 65 million people in the UK. Only 17 million voted Leave.

Wow, what a way to spin bad news for your lot



Nope. Just dispelling the BS that it was "the will of the people"
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Re: Re:

19 Mar 2018 15:28

macbindle wrote:
rick james wrote:
macbindle wrote:Wrong again.

There are 65 million people in the UK. Only 17 million voted Leave.

Wow, what a way to spin bad news for your lot



Nope. Just dispelling the BS that it was "the will of the people"


I suppose it depends how you want to define "The People". Arguably "The People" are those who were both eligible to vote and those who voted. They are the people who could and did engage with the system.
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User avatar King Boonen
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19 Mar 2018 15:34

In which case it was "the will of barely more than half the people" :D

I think it matters, because the implication of "the people" is that it is everybody.
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Re:

19 Mar 2018 16:05

macbindle wrote:In which case it was "the will of barely more than half the people" :D

I think it matters, because the implication of "the people" is that it is everybody.


Which is a tendency of modern politics often: to convey disparate multitudes as a mass.

Lupi suffers from that tendency.
aphronesis
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Re:

19 Mar 2018 16:06

macbindle wrote:In which case it was "the will of barely more than half the people" :D

I think it matters, because the implication of "the people" is that it is everybody.

Why everybody? Surely it’s only the people who actually have a say? Yo could limit it to those eligible to vote but I’d also say that it’s fair to consider only those who did vote. While the solution is complex, maybe even impossible, the question was binary. Seems if you have any opinion then you would exercise your right.
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19 Mar 2018 16:11

I think there’s a temporal element. Per my post above, once the decision has been voted on the conclusion is often presented as unanimous.
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19 Mar 2018 16:19

I get that, but I'm talking about how it should be discussed, rather than how the media/sides portray it and attempt to project it onto a larger group. I know the counter argument is that is should include everyone if affects, but then where do you draw the line?
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Re: Re:

19 Mar 2018 16:28

Lupi33x wrote:
macbindle wrote:Your bolded quote is me pointing out that the UK referendum vote is not"the will of the people", it is the will of half of those who voted.....or do the other half not qualify as part of "the people"?

The second quote is pointing out that Hitler rose to power democratically.

So again, quote where I said whatever it is that you are saying that I said. Your misinterpretation doesn't count, I'm afraid.


Democracy is majority rule.


So you will be petitioning Trump to stand down, as he did not get the support of the majority.
Or are you happy to concede that the US is not a democracy?
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Re:

19 Mar 2018 16:43

King Boonen wrote:I get that, but I'm talking about how it should be discussed, rather than how the media/sides portray it and attempt to project it onto a larger group. I know the counter argument is that is should include everyone if affects, but then where do you draw the line?


Then it ought to be left at “voters” no? If I’m reading you correctly. And not politicized differently in its discussion.
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Re:

19 Mar 2018 16:55

aphronesis wrote:I think there’s a temporal element. Per my post above, once the decision has been voted on the conclusion is often presented as unanimous.


Exactly.

I wasn't really commenting on the disenfranchised (such as the under 18s, overwhelmingly pro-EU, and likely to be affected by the result of the referendum more than the old). It's this Faragism of "the will of the people" that bugs me.
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Re: Re:

19 Mar 2018 17:32

Armchair cyclist wrote:
Lupi33x wrote:
macbindle wrote:Your bolded quote is me pointing out that the UK referendum vote is not"the will of the people", it is the will of half of those who voted.....or do the other half not qualify as part of "the people"?

The second quote is pointing out that Hitler rose to power democratically.

So again, quote where I said whatever it is that you are saying that I said. Your misinterpretation doesn't count, I'm afraid.


Democracy is majority rule.


So you will be petitioning Trump to stand down, as he did not get the support of the majority.
Or are you happy to concede that the US is not a democracy?


The US is a republic, and a ‘democracy’...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/05/13/is-the-united-states-of-america-a-republic-or-a-democracy/?utm_term=.6f021d458675
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