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17 Jan 2019 20:43

the role of the proletariat in the Brexit debacle, ever ready to doff their caps at their master


That does sound a bit elitist, not in a toff way but in an intellectually superior way

Anyway onto the subject in hand, it is difficult to see a way forward, I expect the disastrous no deal is now the most likely outcome, May is proving too inflexible, the government is the only people that can take no deal of the table, they would have to get an agreement to extend the deadline from the EU and put it to a commons vote, they are showing no appetite for that. I don't see without an extension another deal is possible.
del1962
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17 Jan 2019 22:11

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/17/corbyn-could-face-string-of-resignations-if-he-backs-peoples-vote
Jeremy Corbyn could face up to a dozen resignations from the Labour frontbench if the party backs a second referendum as a way out of the Brexit crisis.

A string of junior shadow ministers have told the Guardian they are strongly opposed to the idea of a second referendum, which they fear would expose Labour to a vicious backlash in leave-voting constituencies.

The development follows another tense day of brinkmanship in Westminster between Theresa May and the Labour leader as they seek a way out of the crisis that has engulfed both major parties.


So Tories & Labour could split in two & a no deal looks likely - :eek:
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User avatar Robert5091
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Re:

18 Jan 2019 10:54

Robert5091 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/17/corbyn-could-face-string-of-resignations-if-he-backs-peoples-vote
Jeremy Corbyn could face up to a dozen resignations from the Labour frontbench if the party backs a second referendum as a way out of the Brexit crisis.

A string of junior shadow ministers have told the Guardian they are strongly opposed to the idea of a second referendum, which they fear would expose Labour to a vicious backlash in leave-voting constituencies.

The development follows another tense day of brinkmanship in Westminster between Theresa May and the Labour leader as they seek a way out of the crisis that has engulfed both major parties.


So Tories & Labour could split in two & a no deal looks likely - :eek:


The problem is too few MPs want a second referendum, and those that do are split between parties. Secondly, Labour is currently unelectable, and the parliamentary party are at odds with the Corbynite faction of the Labour party membership, so a GE is not a viable way out of this Brexit quagmire.

Only about 80 nutjobs (mostly Tory) want a No deal, so that won't happen either, even though it is the only option if a deal can't be reached. Labour's 'red lines' are unrealistic, and impossible...so no solution there.

What'll happen? I don't know, but probably an extention of A50 and a weary acceptance of some sort of other deal, leaving the nation worse off than it is currently.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
User avatar macbindle
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Re:

18 Jan 2019 11:10

del1962 wrote:
the role of the proletariat in the Brexit debacle, ever ready to doff their caps at their master


That does sound a bit elitist, not in a toff way but in an intellectually superior way


You have to read my post in the context of the article upon which I was commenting. Did you read it? It's about aristocracy...hence my use of proletariat. When you have an Imperialist throwback like Rees-mogg partially steering the destiny of the nation with his 19th century Aristo schtick, it suddenly becomes relevant again. It's a sort of trick, and in a heavily class-bound society such as ours, people respond with deeply internalised notions of their 'natural' place in society and fall for Rees-Mogg's dog whistles.
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User avatar macbindle
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18 Jan 2019 12:51

Apparently, it is hard to keep a contextual through line from post to post. Easier just to stretch the jaws. Many seem to struggle with it. One can have compassion for the individuals on the ground without negating the historical reality.

Precariat is the more current term but I think UK regs and the deteriorating social net make the term less applicable to Brit citizens than elsewhere in the world.
aphronesis
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Re: British politics

18 Jan 2019 23:42

It seems that that the UK needs Europe more than the other way round. It wouldn't surprise me if the Euros give them SFA.
sienna
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Re:

19 Jan 2019 00:09

aphronesis wrote:Apparently, it is hard to keep a contextual through line from post to post. Easier just to stretch the jaws. Many seem to struggle with it. One can have compassion for the individuals on the ground without negating the historical reality.

Precariat is the more current term but I think UK regs and the deteriorating social net make the term less applicable to Brit citizens than elsewhere in the world.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precariat
The term is a portmanteau obtained by merging precarious with proletariat.


From what I've read and heard, that sounds about right. "McJob", "Zero-hour contracts" "gig economy" etc.
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19 Jan 2019 01:48

aphronesis
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Re:

19 Jan 2019 06:26



That cheered me up.

Great piece. He omitted the motivation behind one small group of politicians who got on board the Brexit bus...the sheer opportunists who recognised it as a vehicle which might drive them into a leadership position. Remember Johnson's self-indulgent crisis of conscience and "soul-searching" over whether to put his name behind Leave or Remain? :lol:

What guts me the most is that we are now told by the cheerleaders of Brexit and by those that voted for it that Brexit voters knew all along what they were voting for, regardless of the fact that terms like "soft Brexit", "hard Brexit", "No Deal Brexit", "Irish border", were never mentioned prior to the result being announced, and regardless of the fact that the real intentions behind people like Cummings political projects have never been either fully exposed to or understood by the thick f'king twats that voted for it.

You can still see the mentality upthread. Show 'em a Spitfire flying over the cliffs of Dover and they'll believe anything you tell them, too dim to question whose interests they are actually furthering when they are 'patriotic' and 'stand up for 'Britain'. Its like the First World War never happened.
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Re: British politics

19 Jan 2019 18:28

Michael Gove might be a slippery pr!ck of a man but he nails Corybn here, great speech


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjrEpFi3QOE
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19 Jan 2019 20:49

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-backbench-mps-control-government-theresa-may-amendments-tory-labour-leaders-a8734346.html
We have a government that can’t govern and an opposition that can barely oppose. In 38 years as a Westminster journalist, I can’t recall a time when both main party leaderships performed so badly at the same time. Normally, there’s a see-saw effect; one side benefits from the misfortunes of the other. Now it’s stuck in the middle.

This week showed how Brexit has turned politics upside down. May suffered the biggest Commons defeat in history on her signature policy but the question of her resigning was hardly mentioned. Her party can’t remove her because her MPs tried and failed last month; they can’t have another go for 12 months.

Normal cabinet discipline has collapsed. May doesn’t dare talk about her Plan B with ministers for fear it would immediately leak. Both May and Corbyn put off the crunch decisions and are not honest with voters about Brexit, putting their own survival first as they dodge the bullets from their own deeply divided parties.


Not a optimistic view of where Brexit is heading.
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User avatar Robert5091
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Re: British politics

19 Jan 2019 22:14

rick james wrote:Michael Gove might be a slippery pr!ck of a man but he nails Corybn here, great speech


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjrEpFi3QOE


Does he? Really? Or is it just the same old tired tropes.
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User avatar macbindle
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19 Jan 2019 23:03

I'm pretty much all in with MacB's take on Brexit. I'l just add, thank goodness the Scots had enough sense to vote remain, and I'm sure the Scots will have enough sense to vote leave GB and get back in to the EU very soon. Leave little England behind to chase its own wee tail....
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Re: British politics

20 Jan 2019 13:14

rick james wrote:Michael Gove might be a slippery pr!ck of a man but he nails Corybn here, great speech


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjrEpFi3QOE

It was delivered eloquently and with some good rhetorical devices (although, I remember being taught in year 10 english language lessons before mr. gove changed the syllabus...), but was lacking in substance. Just the same old attacks on Corbyn that have been used in tabloids ad nauseam: russian spy, anti-war, out-of-context quote on how having no armies is desirable (something which I cannot believe people disagree with), a mention of nuclear disarmament (not even a labour policy), friends with hamas/hezbollah, anti-semite. Only new attack was the misogyny on twitter from some labour supporters. It was just said with some passion and verve, which is different from normal I guess, and with RADA-esque elocution (very blair-y).

Interestingly, the whole speech was based off Gove attacking Watson for not mentioning Corbyn in his speech supporting a vote of no confidence on the incumbent government, and yet in his speech he mentions May, what, twice? And focuses solely on Corbyn, after some generic quotes on the success of this govt, which can be easily countered. Shows plenty that Gove's best defence of an administration he is part of is: 'look at him! look how terrible he is!'
Brullnux
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20 Jan 2019 14:47

A pretty fair summary. A distraction effort, and a future leadership punt. As politicians go Gove is particularly oleaginous.
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Re:

21 Jan 2019 05:42

aphronesis wrote:https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/j5zw98/london-rental-opportunity-of-the-week-a-kitchen-with-a-bunkbed-in-cricklewood

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/59xmpz/london-rental-opportunity-week-ladder-bet-kensington


Have a quick read of this:

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/economy/2019/01/why-falling-house-prices-aren-t-cure-uk-s-broken-economic-model
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User avatar macbindle
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21 Jan 2019 08:13

this author opines on ....

How Theresa May’s Brexit Deal Can Still Happen

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/how-theresa-may%E2%80%99s-brexit-deal-can-still-happen-41967
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Re: Re:

21 Jan 2019 10:19

macbindle wrote:
aphronesis wrote:https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/j5zw98/london-rental-opportunity-of-the-week-a-kitchen-with-a-bunkbed-in-cricklewood

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/59xmpz/london-rental-opportunity-week-ladder-bet-kensington


Have a quick read of this:

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/economy/2019/01/why-falling-house-prices-aren-t-cure-uk-s-broken-economic-model


Yeah, I’ve seen iterations of this.
aphronesis
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Re:

21 Jan 2019 13:25

python wrote:this author opines on ....

How Theresa May’s Brexit Deal Can Still Happen

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/how-theresa-may%E2%80%99s-brexit-deal-can-still-happen-41967


It can. And so can a 'No deal'.

This is worth a read:


We can’t leave a no-deal decision in the hands of wiped-out Theresa May

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/21/no-deal-brexit-wiped-out-theresa-may?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

...written by the person responsible for bringing about the parliamentary vote on the deal.
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