Log in:  

Register

British politics

Grab a short black and come join in the non-cycling discussion. Favourite books, movies, holiday destinations, other sports - chat about it all in the cafe.

Moderators: Eshnar, Irondan, King Boonen, Red Rick, Pricey_sky

19 Feb 2019 00:35

Right around the section that gets you “randomly” selected for additional security in queues.
Vincenzo Nibali:
"I know how to ride a bike"

Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
Administrator
 
Posts: 7,674
Joined: 25 Jul 2012 14:38

20 Feb 2019 09:56

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-20/three-conservative-mps-are-said-to-plan-to-quit-party-wednesday?srnd=premium-europe
British Prime Minister Theresa May is facing the first defections of Conservative members of Parliament as early as Wednesday, with three Tories poised to walk away from her party, according to a person familiar with the matter.

The person, who has knowledge of the new “Independent Group” of MPs, didn’t name the three Tories who are on the brink of quitting, but said there would be a formal announcement just after the weekly Prime Minister’s Questions slot at midday.


Break out the popcorn! :D
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"

Don't mention Khashoggi! It’s a collusion witch hoax!
User avatar Robert5091
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,961
Joined: 29 Mar 2016 08:56
Location: stockholm, sweden

20 Feb 2019 10:12

Shemima Begum has had her British citizenship stripped. This is possibly illegal, as she is not currently a citizen of another country as far as I can tell. While I have little sympathy for her this feels reminiscent of shipping criminals off to Australia. She's our problem, she was radicalised here and as such I feel we have a responsibility to deal with this. She could also become a very useful source of information and, if she can be de-radicalised, an example to many others. This also seems to be a win for IS to be honest, by doing this we are playing into their hands. There is also the issue of her child being eligible for/having British citizenship. Have they stripped this from the child.

This also opens up an interesting discussion. If a 15 year old can be judged as being capable of making an informed decision that can literally impact the rest of her life, does that mean we should be allowing them to vote?
Vincenzo Nibali:
"I know how to ride a bike"

Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
Administrator
 
Posts: 7,674
Joined: 25 Jul 2012 14:38

20 Feb 2019 12:04

Who care about this ISIS loving scum, let her rot where ever she ends up, it’s not our problem anymore.....sadly the snowflakes will fight tooth and nail to try and get her back into this country.....
rick james
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4,560
Joined: 02 Sep 2014 13:21
Location: Ecosse

20 Feb 2019 12:50

I don't think many people particularly care about her. That doesn't mean she isn't our problem.
Vincenzo Nibali:
"I know how to ride a bike"

Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
Administrator
 
Posts: 7,674
Joined: 25 Jul 2012 14:38

Re:

20 Feb 2019 13:34

King Boonen wrote:I don't think many people particularly care about her. That doesn't mean she isn't our problem.


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47301623
The lawyer for Ms Begum's family, Tasnime Akunjee, said they were considering "all legal avenues" to contest the Home Office decision.

Mr Akunjee told the Independent that the Bangladesh government "does not know who she is". He said: "Our position is that to all practical purposes she has been made stateless."
...
Former Conservative Home Secretary Ken Clarke said turning people away would be a "great boost for jihadism" as the "hundreds of foreign jihadis stuck in camps in northern Syria" would be further radicalised, he said.

And MP Joanna Cherry, the SNP's spokeswoman for justice and home affairs, said the home secretary's actions "are more about his leadership ambitions than security issues or due process".


The father of her child is Dutch so the UK must be hoping she seeks Dutch citizenship.
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"

Don't mention Khashoggi! It’s a collusion witch hoax!
User avatar Robert5091
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,961
Joined: 29 Mar 2016 08:56
Location: stockholm, sweden

20 Feb 2019 14:05

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47306022
Three Tory MPs have resigned from the party to join an independent group, set up by former Labour MPs.

Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen wrote a joint letter to Theresa May to confirm their departure.
...
The departure of the three MPs has reduced the government's working majority to nine MPs, and Ms Allen claimed there were "absolutely" other colleagues "keen" to join the group.


Whoever was behind the Brexit campaign, could not have imagined the effects it would have (even if it was the Chinese or Putin!).
Last edited by Robert5091 on 20 Feb 2019 22:23, edited 1 time in total.
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"

Don't mention Khashoggi! It’s a collusion witch hoax!
User avatar Robert5091
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,961
Joined: 29 Mar 2016 08:56
Location: stockholm, sweden

20 Feb 2019 14:58

The Chinese or Putin? Next you’ll howling at the moon
rick james
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4,560
Joined: 02 Sep 2014 13:21
Location: Ecosse

20 Feb 2019 15:30

Definite evidence of Russian interference. He is nowhere as frightening as the real ghouls behind Brexit.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
User avatar macbindle
Member
 
Posts: 1,360
Joined: 22 Dec 2017 16:46

22 Feb 2019 07:28

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/21/theresa-may-faces-ministerial-revolt-over-no-deal-brexit
Theresa May is facing the most serious cabinet revolt of her premiership next week, with as many as 25 members of the government ready to vote for a Brexit delay unless she rules out “no deal” – in a move that will challenge her to sack them.

Rebel Conservatives believe there are now enough MPs across the House of Commons to pass an amendment that would require May to extend article 50 rather than allow the UK to leave without a deal.

At least four cabinet ministers, almost a dozen junior ministers and many others on the government payroll are understood to be prepared to back the motion proposed by the Tory MP Sir Oliver Letwin and Labour’s Yvette Cooper, due to be debated on Wednesday. A senior source close to those plotting the rebellion said there was no way the members of the government would resign voluntarily and May would have to sack them.


Time for the "Death Stare" ! :D
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"

Don't mention Khashoggi! It’s a collusion witch hoax!
User avatar Robert5091
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,961
Joined: 29 Mar 2016 08:56
Location: stockholm, sweden

Re:

22 Feb 2019 09:44

rick james wrote:Who care about this ISIS loving scum, let her rot where ever she ends up, it’s not our problem anymore.....sadly the snowflakes will fight tooth and nail to try and get her back into this country.....

It is our problem because the rules about how to deal with this situation are very clear. whether the rules are correct can be discussed, but not that the rules are in place already to deal with this sort of situation.
Singer01
Member
 
Posts: 1,254
Joined: 18 Nov 2013 19:04

22 Feb 2019 09:56

ISIS wouldn't have been possible without the conditions on the ground allowing it.

People need to consider this, both in terms of the destruction of Iraq, socially, politically and culturally but also, and crucially, the effect of trying to undermine the Assad regime in Syria. It isn't a coincidence that ISIS has died out when the Syrian civil war is almost over (in part due to Russian involvement).

There is no such thing as acting in a vacuum in the Middke-East. Every action has a reaction.

This is why Begum is our problem. Syrian and Libyan refugees floating about in the Med are our problem.

If we involve ourselves militarily in other countries we can't wash our hands of the consequences we don't like.

As an aside, it is no surprise that Begum is a lightning rod for all the racists and misogynists out there. This is why people like Tommy Robinson are straight on to it, stirring up hatred.

It pains me that some people are too thick to see this and allow themselves to be manipulated into a purely emotional response rather than blocking the hate impulse and thinking it through.
Last edited by macbindle on 22 Feb 2019 10:18, edited 3 times in total.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
User avatar macbindle
Member
 
Posts: 1,360
Joined: 22 Dec 2017 16:46

22 Feb 2019 09:58

Labour MP Ian Austin quits the party

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/22/labour-mp-ian-austin-quits-the-party?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

What is it, 35 days to go, and the established parties are crumbling.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
User avatar macbindle
Member
 
Posts: 1,360
Joined: 22 Dec 2017 16:46

22 Feb 2019 11:11

Another one who won't call a by-election.

I'm unsure if they think this will have an effect on Brexit or if they are just positioning themselves so once it all goes to pot they can say "we told you so". Looking at their views I'm not sure why they haven't just joined the Lib Dems to be honest, and then shift to the Tories after Brexit.
Vincenzo Nibali:
"I know how to ride a bike"

Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
Administrator
 
Posts: 7,674
Joined: 25 Jul 2012 14:38

22 Feb 2019 11:34

It's a confluence of factors with Brexit as the catalyst. I think Corbyn is the issue for these people, with Corbyn's stance on Brexit being unbearable. I wonder if the anti-semitism thing is being exploited as an added reason. They are citing Corbyn as an anti-semite, in sharp contradiction to the feelings of many Jewish members of the party

"Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour is a crucial ally in the fight against antisemitism"

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/20/jeremy-corbyn-labour-party-crucial-ally-in-fight-against-antisemitism?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
User avatar macbindle
Member
 
Posts: 1,360
Joined: 22 Dec 2017 16:46

22 Feb 2019 12:09

Honestly, I think they're mainly Blairites who don't like the way the party has changed. Their economic views seem to show this. If that's the case they it would make sense for them to leave the party. It's clearly moved more to the left, particularly in this area, and so probably doesn't fall in line with their views. It's pretty cynical to run on the Labour ticket in 2017 if this is the case though. Labour's policies haven't changed, they knew what they were doing and I think they should all be calling by-elections. Chuka Umunna probably has a good chance of winning, the rest might struggle. Obviously what they want to do is keep their seats, attempt to build a base and then they'll identify and run in marginal seats.


I find it really hard to believe Corbyn is an antisemite. His whole career pretty much flies in the face of such an accusation.

I think Labour haven't addressed it as strongly as they should, probably because it's not as big an issue as it is made out in the press (all the stats back this up) and they haven't realised that it's a problem of perception. From what I've read Luciana Berger has suffered some horrible abuse. A lot of it hasn't been from party members but from people who are no doubt associated to Labour's current politics. I don't know and wouldn't like to say if these specific MPs are exploiting anti-semitism for their own gain, because that would be abhorrent. Clearly some people do, but the opposite is also true. It's not helped by conflation with anti-Zionism and the changeable definition of Zionism. You end up in a similar loop to Red_Flanders and my discussion about Islamophobia. I have absolutely no problem with people's right to peaceful self-determination and demographic change, as long as this does not impinge on another people's human rights. I would guess that is the stance of the vast majority of people. As far as I understand, Zionism can fall under this, but it can also fall out-with it (similar to certain people's views on whether Islam is inherently more violent than other religions). This is a very nuanced discussion and, like with Trans rights, not a topic then can be well discussed on forums or Twitter, it just leads to aggression from both sides of the discussion.
Vincenzo Nibali:
"I know how to ride a bike"

Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
Administrator
 
Posts: 7,674
Joined: 25 Jul 2012 14:38

22 Feb 2019 18:22

There are a few groups who benefit from the anti-semitism issue...The Tories and the Israelis. The Israelis have no hesitation in exploiting the concept of anti-Semitism to quell criticism of their violence. Similarly the Tories are not beneath exploiting it, although they have to be careful because if the rug is lifted up on them there are some beasties hidden away too.

I have no difficulty believing that there are some racist anti-semites in the Labour party given that it is well embedded in society as a whole.

I think the problem with the Labour party is the gulf between the membership and the parliamentary party when it comes to Corbyn. I suspect that the base membership do not reflect a fair cross-section of the electorate's views whereas the MPs have to reflect it. They have to be pragmatic otherwise they will be out of a job.

I also know that there was a great deal of entryism from conservatives to get Corbyn elected. Their plan worked, the guy will never get elected despite the better than expected showing at the last GE.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
User avatar macbindle
Member
 
Posts: 1,360
Joined: 22 Dec 2017 16:46

23 Feb 2019 00:53

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/02/22/theresa-may-warned-ministers-has-five-days-agree-brexit-delay/
Theresa May warned by ministers she has five days to agree to Brexit delay or face mass revolt


5 days ... the clock is ticking.
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"

Don't mention Khashoggi! It’s a collusion witch hoax!
User avatar Robert5091
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,961
Joined: 29 Mar 2016 08:56
Location: stockholm, sweden

23 Feb 2019 06:34

So we've now got a white British ISIS member in prison in Syria asking to come home. It'll be interesting to compare the media coverage and public discourse with that of the case of Shamina Begum, the Muslim British girl.

So far? The headline "I miss my mum".

Awww bless him. Got to feel sorry for the poor little white boy.
(Warning: Posts may contain traces of irony)
User avatar macbindle
Member
 
Posts: 1,360
Joined: 22 Dec 2017 16:46

23 Feb 2019 16:43

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-47335414
About 3,000 people have joined former English Defence League leader Tommy Robinson in a protest against the BBC.

The corporation confirmed an upcoming Panorama episode was investigating Mr Robinson, whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon.

Mr Yaxley-Lennon said the aim of the protest was to make a stand "against the corrupt media" and called for the BBC licence fee to scrapped.

In a statement, a BBC spokeswoman said: "BBC Panorama is investigating Tommy Robinson, whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon. Any programme we broadcast will adhere to the BBC's strict editorial guidelines."

UKIP leader Gerard Batten told demonstrators: "He speaks up for things that are right, he tells the truth and he can mobilise lots of people like you, and that's what they fear."

The National Union of Journalists (NUJ) said they "roundly condemn Tommy Robinson... and his fellow, far-right thugs who intend to intimidate staff at the corporation, particularly those working on Panorama".
"Are you going to believe me or what you see with your own eyes?"

Don't mention Khashoggi! It’s a collusion witch hoax!
User avatar Robert5091
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,961
Joined: 29 Mar 2016 08:56
Location: stockholm, sweden

PreviousNext

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

Back to top