Log in:  

Register

The DIY thread

Grab a short black and come join in the non-cycling discussion. Favourite books, movies, holiday destinations, other sports - chat about it all in the cafe.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Valv.Piti, Pricey_sky, Tonton, King Boonen

Re:

11 Jul 2017 19:48

Dazed and Confused wrote:Nice flowers Tricycle.
Thank you, Dazed. Way in the back in the pic are my tomato plants, hopefully I'll get a decent crop this year. Last year was just pitiful.

How are your potatoes coming along?
User avatar Tricycle Rider
Member
 
Posts: 1,747
Joined: 09 Feb 2013 11:12

15 Jul 2017 20:06

They were/are pretty good. One plant left. Hopefully enough for the fish on Sunday. Otherwise staving....
Dazed and Confused
Veteran
 
Posts: 11,382
Joined: 27 Jan 2012 23:14

Re: The DIY thread

21 Jul 2017 05:09

After my last project, I tackled a small half-bath. There was a leak under the sink, with water inside the wall causing the sheetrock to get soft and puff out. I opened the wall to look for it, and eventually focused on the two shut off valves for hot and cold water to the sink.

Image

When those valves were replaced, the water inside the wall dried up. There is still a slight leak at each one of the valves, which I may fix eventually, but it’s slow enough that it doesn’t seem to be a problem.

Some of the tiles on the floor near the sink were loose, so I decided to remove all the tiles and replace them. Just as with my previous project, I soon discovered that much of subfloor underneath the tiles was rotted out, as well as some of the floorboards below that. The wood was black with mold, concentrated under the sink, and even worse around the toilet.

Image

I removed the toilet, then removed the entire subfloor, and scrubbed the floor with a bleach solution, which kills the mold. I then had to remove some of the floor boards and replace them, followed by a new subfloor, and new tiles.

The toilet caused a lot of problems, though. Underneath the toilet is the closet flange, which connects the toilet to the sewer line below the floor. The flange is a hollow tube or cylinder, several inches long and several inches in diameter, which inserts around or into the sewer line. The cylindrical portion is attached to a metal ring, which is supposed to lie flat on the floor, above the sewer line and bolted down. The toilet is then bolted to this ring; though most of the toilet’s weight rests directly on the floor, it’s actually connected to the floor via the flange ring.

My house is pushing a century, and back when it was constructed, flanges were cast iron, welded to the sewer line. The flange ring had broken, so that one of the grooves that holds a bolt to the toilet was missing. That is usually easy to repair with a replacement ring, but for very old flanges like mine, that didn’t work. So I had to remove the entire flange, by cutting into it with a hacksaw, then chipping at it with a screwdriver tapped by a hammer until it cracked and fell apart.

New flanges are quite cheap, around $10-12, and can be quite easy to install. The one I used was of hard plastic, and pushed down into the sewer line. Surrounding the flange is a rubber gasket which compresses between the outside of the flange and the inside of the sewer line, forming a tight seal. So far, so good.

But at this point, I confronted another problem. The position of the ring of the flange, which to repeat, bolts to the toilet, relative to the surface of the floor, is critical. Before the toilet is placed on top of the flange, a wax ring (or something similar) has to be placed over the flange. The wax sits at the bottom of the toilet and sort of oozes out to form a tight seal around the flange, preventing leaking. But if the flange ring is too low, more than a fraction of an inch below the surface of the floor, the seal is not formed, because of the extra space that the wax doesn’t get into. And if the flange ring is too high, just slightly above the surface of the floor, there isn’t enough room under the toilet for all the wax. It oozes out, preventing the toilet from sitting on the floor; it rocks.

There is a simple solution if the flange is too low; add another ring, which raises the top of the flange. But if the flange ring is too high, above the surface of the floor—which was my situation -there is no easy, ideal solution. You generally must either cut the end of the sewer pipe, to lower it and thus the flange, or raise the floor, by adding more subfloor. The first option was out, because at that point I had only a small hole in the floor to the sewer line, not large enough to get a saw in. And the second option would have meant taking off and discarding all the tiles, adding more subfloor, then re-tiling.

In fact, this was probably why there was so much water damage underneath the toilet in the first place. The original subfloor was very thin, quarter-inch plywood, and did not come up to the top of the flange ring. Thicker plywood would have provided a stronger floor and one that was level with the top of the flange. But I didn’t appreciate the problem when I was rebuilding the floor; I used the same dimension plywood, wanting to stick to the original specs as much as possible.

Anyway, to save myself a lot of grief, what I did was to put some tiles under the toilet, in effect raising just it the necessary amount above the flange. They actually sell tiles like this, which are used to cover rust stains surrounding the toilet, but which can be used just to raise the toilet. I made my own, though, from several 2’ x 1’ tiles that I bought. I placed the toilet on one of the tiles and traced the outline of it. I then cut that tile (it was very hard to cut, and I ended up using pruning sheers) to that shape, and also cut a hole inside the pattern, through which the flange ring would go. Each tile was about .10 inch thick; I made four of them, and stacked them on top of each other and placed them under the toilet.

Finally, in place of the original sink, which I removed from the wall, I bought a cheap but decent vanity/sink combination. Though I patched the hole in the wall I had opened, bonding sheet rock with joint compound, the vanity sits in front of the wall, and hides most of the repair job.

Image
Merckx index
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,163
Joined: 27 Jul 2010 19:19

21 Jul 2017 18:33

MI, complex problem involving water......
Nice description of the solution etc.
As a note for further wet room room work, you probably need to investigate putting in a barrier between the subfloor (sometimes wood in old buildings) and the tiles above. Often its a chemical mixture of sorts.

But in any case the new bathroom looks much better than the old.
Dazed and Confused
Veteran
 
Posts: 11,382
Joined: 27 Jan 2012 23:14

Re:

21 Jul 2017 19:25

Dazed and Confused wrote:MI, complex problem involving water......
Nice description of the solution etc.
As a note for further wet room room work, you probably need to investigate putting in a barrier between the subfloor (sometimes wood in old buildings) and the tiles above. Often its a chemical mixture of sorts.

But in any case the new bathroom looks much better than the old.


I noticed while taking off this subfloor as well as the one in the adjacent hallway earlier that there was a layer of paper under the subfloor, between it and the floor boards. I assumed this was a moisture barrier, protecting the floor boards though not of course the subfloor. I suppose one could use plastic sheeting, too. The mold can digest the paper, but not plastic sheeting.

I was preparing a house for sale last year and had some folks come in to remodel the bathroom, and I noticed they used cement board for the subfloor. But that floor used ceramic tiles, and I understand the grout is water permeable. My property manager says he always uses sheet vinyl, as of course no water can get through it, but I find laying individual tiles easier, and I think they look better. Also, because this is a half bath--no shower or tub--there should be less problem with water on the floor, assuming the plumbing doesn't leak.

As I noted in my earlier post, this house is nearly one hundred years old. The floor is presumably original, and maybe the subfloor as well, so if this was the extent of the damage after all that time, the floor held up pretty well.
Merckx index
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,163
Joined: 27 Jul 2010 19:19

Re: Re:

21 Jul 2017 19:36

Merckx index wrote:
Dazed and Confused wrote:MI, complex problem involving water......
Nice description of the solution etc.
As a note for further wet room room work, you probably need to investigate putting in a barrier between the subfloor (sometimes wood in old buildings) and the tiles above. Often its a chemical mixture of sorts.

But in any case the new bathroom looks much better than the old.


I noticed while taking off this subfloor as well as the one in the adjacent hallway earlier that there was a layer of paper under the subfloor, between it and the floor boards. I assumed this was a moisture barrier, protecting the floor boards though not of course the subfloor. I suppose one could use plastic sheeting, too. The mold can digest the paper, but not plastic sheeting.

I was preparing a house for sale last year and had some folks come in to remodel the bathroom, and I noticed they used cement board for the subfloor. But that floor used ceramic tiles, and I understand the grout is water permeable. My property manager says he always uses sheet vinyl, as of course no water can get through it, but I find laying individual tiles easier, and I think they look better. Also, because this is a half bath--no shower or tub--there should be less problem with water on the floor, assuming the plumbing doesn't leak.

As I noted in my earlier post, this house is nearly one hundred years old. The floor is presumably original, and maybe the subfloor as well, so if this was the extent of the damage after all that time, the floor held up pretty well.


Yep, vinyl will stop the water, but a tiled floor won't, which is really important if the subfloor is wood. Next time I would investigate putting in a barrier. Its doesn't cost lots, easy to put on (requires some drying time) and only takes 2-4mm.
Dazed and Confused
Veteran
 
Posts: 11,382
Joined: 27 Jan 2012 23:14

Re: The DIY thread

21 Jul 2017 20:20

Merckx index wrote:Finally, in place of the original sink, which I removed from the wall, I bought a cheap but decent vanity/sink combination. Though I patched the hole in the wall I had opened, bonding sheet rock with joint compound, the vanity sits in front of the wall, and hides most of the repair job.

Image
Looks great, Mi! :cool:

Right, while some of our more distinguished members have been up to no good with their rather complex projects I've been, apparently, trying to grow some corn. (At least that is what I think it is.)

I just planted some of those "multi/variety" seeds, and here's what came out.

Image

So my question is (being I never lived on a farm) - is there a good way to grow corn? Or a bad way?
User avatar Tricycle Rider
Member
 
Posts: 1,747
Joined: 09 Feb 2013 11:12

21 Jul 2017 20:39

No clue, TR. Not a big fan of corn, well only occasionally when the stuff is somehow used to brew booze....
Dazed and Confused
Veteran
 
Posts: 11,382
Joined: 27 Jan 2012 23:14

Re:

21 Jul 2017 21:08

Dazed and Confused wrote:No clue, TR. Not a big fan of corn, well only occasionally when the stuff is somehow used to brew booze....
You sound like one of those 1920s (or was it the 30s?) anti-Prohibition moonshine peoples.

Nothing wrong with that, btw., as far as I'm concerned.
User avatar Tricycle Rider
Member
 
Posts: 1,747
Joined: 09 Feb 2013 11:12

Re: The DIY thread

21 Jul 2017 21:48

Merckx index wrote:After my last project, I tackled a small half-bath. There was a leak under the sink, with water inside the wall causing the sheetrock to get soft and puff out. I opened the wall to look for it, and eventually focused on the two shut off valves for hot and cold water to the sink.

Image

When those valves were replaced, the water inside the wall dried up. There is still a slight leak at each one of the valves, which I may fix eventually, but it’s slow enough that it doesn’t seem to be a problem.

Some of the tiles on the floor near the sink were loose, so I decided to remove all the tiles and replace them. Just as with my previous project, I soon discovered that much of subfloor underneath the tiles was rotted out, as well as some of the floorboards below that. The wood was black with mold, concentrated under the sink, and even worse around the toilet.

Image

I removed the toilet, then removed the entire subfloor, and scrubbed the floor with a bleach solution, which kills the mold. I then had to remove some of the floor boards and replace them, followed by a new subfloor, and new tiles.

The toilet caused a lot of problems, though. Underneath the toilet is the closet flange, which connects the toilet to the sewer line below the floor. The flange is a hollow tube or cylinder, several inches long and several inches in diameter, which inserts around or into the sewer line. The cylindrical portion is attached to a metal ring, which is supposed to lie flat on the floor, above the sewer line and bolted down. The toilet is then bolted to this ring; though most of the toilet’s weight rests directly on the floor, it’s actually connected to the floor via the flange ring.

My house is pushing a century, and back when it was constructed, flanges were cast iron, welded to the sewer line. The flange ring had broken, so that one of the grooves that holds a bolt to the toilet was missing. That is usually easy to repair with a replacement ring, but for very old flanges like mine, that didn’t work. So I had to remove the entire flange, by cutting into it with a hacksaw, then chipping at it with a screwdriver tapped by a hammer until it cracked and fell apart.

New flanges are quite cheap, around $10-12, and can be quite easy to install. The one I used was of hard plastic, and pushed down into the sewer line. Surrounding the flange is a rubber gasket which compresses between the outside of the flange and the inside of the sewer line, forming a tight seal. So far, so good.

But at this point, I confronted another problem. The position of the ring of the flange, which to repeat, bolts to the toilet, relative to the surface of the floor, is critical. Before the toilet is placed on top of the flange, a wax ring (or something similar) has to be placed over the flange. The wax sits at the bottom of the toilet and sort of oozes out to form a tight seal around the flange, preventing leaking. But if the flange ring is too low, more than a fraction of an inch below the surface of the floor, the seal is not formed, because of the extra space that the wax doesn’t get into. And if the flange ring is too high, just slightly above the surface of the floor, there isn’t enough room under the toilet for all the wax. It oozes out, preventing the toilet from sitting on the floor; it rocks.

There is a simple solution if the flange is too low; add another ring, which raises the top of the flange. But if the flange ring is too high, above the surface of the floor—which was my situation -there is no easy, ideal solution. You generally must either cut the end of the sewer pipe, to lower it and thus the flange, or raise the floor, by adding more subfloor. The first option was out, because at that point I had only a small hole in the floor to the sewer line, not large enough to get a saw in. And the second option would have meant taking off and discarding all the tiles, adding more subfloor, then re-tiling.

In fact, this was probably why there was so much water damage underneath the toilet in the first place. The original subfloor was very thin, quarter-inch plywood, and did not come up to the top of the flange ring. Thicker plywood would have provided a stronger floor and one that was level with the top of the flange. But I didn’t appreciate the problem when I was rebuilding the floor; I used the same dimension plywood, wanting to stick to the original specs as much as possible.

Anyway, to save myself a lot of grief, what I did was to put some tiles under the toilet, in effect raising just it the necessary amount above the flange. They actually sell tiles like this, which are used to cover rust stains surrounding the toilet, but which can be used just to raise the toilet. I made my own, though, from several 2’ x 1’ tiles that I bought. I placed the toilet on one of the tiles and traced the outline of it. I then cut that tile (it was very hard to cut, and I ended up using pruning sheers) to that shape, and also cut a hole inside the pattern, through which the flange ring would go. Each tile was about .10 inch thick; I made four of them, and stacked them on top of each other and placed them under the toilet.

Finally, in place of the original sink, which I removed from the wall, I bought a cheap but decent vanity/sink combination. Though I patched the hole in the wall I had opened, bonding sheet rock with joint compound, the vanity sits in front of the wall, and hides most of the repair job.

Image

Merckx, I've had all of the above issues in my various old houses (I laughed and cried reading your post!). In one situation with a toilet pipe/floor issue, I was able to use 1.5 wax rings to deal with the space, and I also eliminated the flange and made a "bracket" to hold it steady (I had access below). It worked for 10 years that I know of.
jmdirt
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,406
Joined: 06 Dec 2013 17:33

Re: The DIY thread

21 Jul 2017 21:51

Tricycle Rider wrote:
Merckx index wrote:Finally, in place of the original sink, which I removed from the wall, I bought a cheap but decent vanity/sink combination. Though I patched the hole in the wall I had opened, bonding sheet rock with joint compound, the vanity sits in front of the wall, and hides most of the repair job.

Image
Looks great, Mi! :cool:

Right, while some of our more distinguished members have been up to no good with their rather complex projects I've been, apparently, trying to grow some corn. (At least that is what I think it is.)

I just planted some of those "multi/variety" seeds, and here's what came out.

Image

So my question is (being I never lived on a farm) - is there a good way to grow corn? Or a bad way?

Someone once told me that if it produces food, you grew it the right way.
jmdirt
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,406
Joined: 06 Dec 2013 17:33

Re: The DIY thread

22 Jul 2017 04:03

D and C, thanks for the tip. If I retile that floor at some point down the road, I’ll not only put in more subfloor to avoid the flange problem, but look at ways to protect it from water.

Tricycle Rider wrote:
So my question is (being I never lived on a farm) - is there a good way to grow corn? Or a bad way?


Corn needs more fertilizer, and in particular nitrogen, than any other garden vegetable I’m familiar with. It’s a real soil hog. I lived in Minneapolis back in the 90s, and after I bought a house, I dug up the back yard and planted corn and many other things. The first year it grew really well, very tall with a good yield of ears. The next year it was OK but not great, and after three or four years, the plants that came up were stunted.

I think the previous owners of the house probably put a lot of nitrogen into the soil for their lawn, which the corn soon depleted. I tried adding some fertilizer of my own, but I don’t think I worked it into the soil enough. As I recall, I didn’t have this problem with any other vegetables, and I grew a great variety of them.

jmdirt wrote:Merckx, I've had all of the above issues in my various old houses (I laughed and cried reading your post!). In one situation with a toilet pipe/floor issue, I was able to use 1.5 wax rings to deal with the space, and I also eliminated the flange and made a "bracket" to hold it steady (I had access below). It worked for 10 years that I know of.


Well, when I was doing all this, I was crying a lot more than laughing, and mostly just cussing. Your point about the wax ring is interesting; I assume using more than one would be for a flange that was too low, and conversely, a flange that is too high might work with less than a full wax ring.

As I’m sure you know, there are alternatives to wax, and I used one of these. The big problem with wax rings, from what I’ve read, is that you have to set the toilet down perfectly the first time, or you ruin the ring and have to buy another. In my attempts to fit the toilet to the flange, I put it down and moved it off nearly a dozen times—something I could do with the alternative seal I was using--so at least I saved a lot of money on wax rings.

Just want to add that one thing that really helps us DIYers now is the internet. No matter what your project is, there is just a ton of information on it, both written and videos. Every time I ran into a problem that I didn't know how to solve--and it seemed to happen daily--I would go online, and find lots of discussion about it. Years ago when I did some home projects, there was no such resource, and I was much more limited in what I attempted to do. Of course you can usually get some help at the places where you buy tools and materials, but nothing beats a detailed description of some process, and/or a video of someone actually doing it. And most important, even when you have a rare problem that isn't supposed to arise, you just know that someone else has confronted the exact same issue, and has lived to tell about it.
Last edited by Merckx index on 22 Jul 2017 04:20, edited 1 time in total.
Merckx index
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,163
Joined: 27 Jul 2010 19:19

Re: The DIY thread

22 Jul 2017 04:15

Merckx index wrote:D and C, thanks for the tip. If I retile that floor at some point down the road, I’ll not only put in more subfloor to avoid the flange problem, but look at ways to protect it from water.

Tricycle Rider wrote:
So my question is (being I never lived on a farm) - is there a good way to grow corn? Or a bad way?


Corn needs more fertilizer, and in particular nitrogen, than any other garden vegetable I’m familiar with. It’s a real soil hog. I lived in Minneapolis back in the 90s, and after I bought a house, I dug up the back yard and planted corn and many other things. The first year it grew really well, very tall with a good yield of ears. The next year it was OK but not great, and after three or four years, the plants that came up were stunted.

I think the previous owners of the house probably put a lot of nitrogen into the soil for their lawn, which the corn soon depleted. I tried adding some fertilizer of my own, but I don’t think I worked it into the soil enough. As I recall, I didn’t have this problem with any other vegetables, and I grew a great variety of them.

jmdirt wrote:Merckx, I've had all of the above issues in my various old houses (I laughed and cried reading your post!). In one situation with a toilet pipe/floor issue, I was able to use 1.5 wax rings to deal with the space, and I also eliminated the flange and made a "bracket" to hold it steady (I had access below). It worked for 10 years that I know of.


Well, when I was doing all this, I was crying a lot more than laughing, and mostly just cussing. Your point about the wax ring is interesting; I assume using more than one would be for a flange that was too low, and conversely, a flange that is too high might work with less than a full wax ring.

As I’m sure you know, there are alternatives to wax, and I used one of these. The big problem with wax rings, from what I’ve read, is that you have to set the toilet down perfectly the first time, or you ruin the ring and have to buy another. In my attempts to fit the toilet to the flange, I put it down and moved it off nearly a dozen times—something I could do with the alternative seal I was using--so at least I saved a lot of money on wax rings.

Remodeling old houses I have made up new profanity, and new strings of profanity! :mad: :D

Mostly true, but you might luck out and get a second try, but a third is definitely out of the question. Cutting them is a nightmare!

I keep threatening to move into a condo that someone else takes care of. My wife says that I'm on my own if I do that...that makes it even more appealing. :surprised:
jmdirt
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,406
Joined: 06 Dec 2013 17:33

Re: The DIY thread

25 Jul 2017 00:25

jmdirt wrote: My wife says that I'm on my own if I do that...that makes it even more appealing. :surprised:
lol... I'll pretend I never read that! :lol:

Okay, back to the corn growing issue, and thank you Mi for the nitrogen info...

Is this even corn?

Image

I tell ya, I am mesmerized by this plant, it's trying to grow some kind of a "blossom" now.

Well, whatever it is it is contained in a pot, I have no intention of mass producing corn, or anything like that. (Unless it's absolutely delicious, that it.)
User avatar Tricycle Rider
Member
 
Posts: 1,747
Joined: 09 Feb 2013 11:12

26 Jul 2017 21:02

Right, me again, wanting some more gardening tips. This time I'm trying to grow some figs.

So far I've got this going on (it is in a ceramic pot), will it ever produce any fruit?

Image

I know, I should be googling this, but I think it's much more fun to be consulting with you guys so we can all share our gardening successes, as well as our gardening failures. :( :)
User avatar Tricycle Rider
Member
 
Posts: 1,747
Joined: 09 Feb 2013 11:12

28 Jul 2017 12:32

With a tile floor, it's important to have minimal flex in the floor to avoid having the tiles break, and important to have good coverage of the thin set on the back of the tiles so there aren't any unsupported spots where breaks could happen.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA
JayKosta
Member
 
Posts: 741
Joined: 25 Nov 2010 13:55

28 Jul 2017 14:44

here facing my fears through laced fingers................

i don't wish to work.....................and DIY seems too much like that

that's why fortunately there are tradesmen...........

Mark L
User avatar ebandit
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,918
Joined: 02 Aug 2012 18:24

Re:

28 Jul 2017 22:20

ebandit wrote:
that's why fortunately there are tradesmen...........

Mark L
Understood.

But some of us don't have the money to hire tradesmen, plus, some of us actually enjoy being able to accomplish the work ourselves.

To each their own.:)
User avatar Tricycle Rider
Member
 
Posts: 1,747
Joined: 09 Feb 2013 11:12

Re: Re:

28 Jul 2017 22:55

Tricycle Rider wrote:
ebandit wrote:
that's why fortunately there are tradesmen...........

Mark L
Understood.

But some of us don't have the money to hire tradesmen, plus, some of us actually enjoy being able to accomplish the work ourselves.

To each their own.:)

you're right there... cept my personal drive for DIY is fun. nothing else nor less as we're relatively fine materially.

for instance, we are flying out for a new Mexico-arizonA VACATION TOMORROW...in the plan is to camp for 2 nights out of 9. we bought a special, light weight 2 person tent for the occasion. turns out, it had the stakes i did not consider light. that is, the 12 steel stakes ended up weighing 400+ grams. unsatisfied, i made my own stakes at half the weight and 4 times the gripping power. sorry for lacking pictures, (perhaps after the trip...) but i came up with the 3 types of stakes (all alum) - tubular, the square c- section and the linear flat bar.

tested it in the local parks (including an overnight-er). the repeatable conclusion was that my stakes were MUCH suPerior WHILE WEIGHING ABOUT 1/2....

tell me it was about anything other than fun and i will laugh you out
DJPbaltimore:'John Kerry is an honorable person and would not call out the Russians if there was not evidence', 'the 2 of you are russia stooges'
in foreign policy there are no eternal friendships or eternal enemies, only eternal interests
User avatar python
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,493
Joined: 25 Sep 2009 01:01

Re: Re:

28 Jul 2017 23:18

python wrote:you're right there... cept my personal drive for DIY is fun. nothing else nor less as we're relatively fine materially.

for instance, we are flying out for a new Mexico-arizonA VACATION TOMORROW...in the plan is to camp for 2 nights out of 9. we bought a special, light weight 2 person tent for the occasion. turns out, it had the stakes i did not consider light. that is, the 12 steel stakes ended up weighing 400+ grams. unsatisfied, i made my own stakes at half the weight and 4 times the gripping power. sorry for lacking pictures, (perhaps after the trip...) but i came up with the 3 types of stakes (all alum) - tubular, the square c- section and the linear flat bar.

tested it in the local parks (including an overnight-er). the repeatable conclusion was that my stakes were MUCH suPerior WHILE WEIGHING ABOUT 1/2....

tell me it was about anything other than fun and i will laugh you out
It's been a long time since I've gone camping and had to pitch a tent, but I do understand what you are saying in terms of the stakes. (Somewhat? :confused: )

Best of luck out there, hope your stake calculations are correct. :)
User avatar Tricycle Rider
Member
 
Posts: 1,747
Joined: 09 Feb 2013 11:12

PreviousNext

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Unchained and 8 guests

Back to top