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consciouseness of plants?

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consciouseness of plants?

30 Jun 2017 13:12

on my ramble i'm daydreaming as always..........................

plants react to their surroundings is it possible that they are aware on a deeper
level/

after all they have been around for longer and possibly further along an evolutionary
path?

for sure plants operate more slowly that us humans.........but also us humans operate
slower than flies...................

just that we are mobile and posess tools to chop and judge other things within the
parameters of our own experience

..........i know!! if true where would veggies turn.........

Mark L
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30 Jun 2017 14:16

Plants react chemichaly, but they have no means to process stimuli in a conscious way. That's simply not a thing, and it's got nothing to do with ''judging other things within the parameters of our own experience''. There's no physical way they could, unless you'd bring up some very far fetched mysticism.

As far as where vegggies would turn... well, if you honestly can't see the difference between mowing a grass field and slaughtering a pig, let me know, I'll explain even though I've been away from this kind of ''debate'' for ages.
''The battle between Démare and Bouhanni for being France's best sprinter is decided: it's Coquard.'' - BBB
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30 Jun 2017 15:19

BigMac wrote:
As far as where vegggies would turn... well, if you honestly can't see the difference between mowing a grass field and slaughtering a pig, let me know, I'll explain even though I've been away from this kind of ''debate'' for ages.


perhaps you should read my post and consider the difference between asking a question....

and stating fact

Mark L
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30 Jun 2017 15:36

There was a guy in Oregon in the '80s who could hear trees cry when loggers fell them.
jmdirt
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Re: consciouseness of plants?

30 Jun 2017 17:42

Image
User avatar Semper Fidelis
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30 Jun 2017 17:55

It's true. Therfore I've taken to living naked in and eating a clearing of dirt. Too bad about the microbes, but they survive and my ethics can take it.
aphronesis
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Re:

30 Jun 2017 18:19

aphronesis wrote:It's true. Therfore I've taken to living naked in and eating a clearing of dirt. Too bad about the microbes, but they survive and my ethics can take it.

Sounds like a plan. Dirt will not give you the runnnsss as I'm to understand it is fibrous material.
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Re:

30 Jun 2017 20:03

ebandit wrote:
BigMac wrote:
As far as where vegggies would turn... well, if you honestly can't see the difference between mowing a grass field and slaughtering a pig, let me know, I'll explain even though I've been away from this kind of ''debate'' for ages.


perhaps you should read my post and consider the difference between asking a question....

and stating fact

Mark L


I don't understand. It is a fact.
''The battle between Démare and Bouhanni for being France's best sprinter is decided: it's Coquard.'' - BBB
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Re:

30 Jun 2017 23:01

jmdirt wrote:There was a guy in Oregon in the '80s who could hear trees cry when loggers fell them.

You mean like these people?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFUDEmMjC-c

As someone who considers myself environmentally conscious, these types of idiots did way more harm than good. It used to drive me up the wall when the Nature Conservancy (who I have donated to, and volunteered for) would go to rural areas to purchase land, or do land swaps working with locals, then these kind of lunatics would come along crying over trees, and then the conservative right would react, and clump all environmentalists together, as if the Nature Conservancy and ELF were one and the same. How many wrongs does it take to make a right? :mad:

Sorry, I digress. Plants have no consciousness. They have no cerebral cortex, no brain, no central nervous system.
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Re: Re:

30 Jun 2017 23:09

Alpe d'Huez wrote:
jmdirt wrote:There was a guy in Oregon in the '80s who could hear trees cry when loggers fell them.

You mean like these people?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFUDEmMjC-c

As someone who considers myself environmentally conscious, these types of idiots did way more harm than good. It used to drive me up the wall when the Nature Conservancy (who I have donated to, and volunteered for) would go to rural areas to purchase land, or do land swaps working with locals, then these kind of lunatics would come along crying over trees, and then the conservative right would react, and clump all environmentalists together, as if the Nature Conservancy and ELF were one and the same. How many wrongs does it take to make a right? :mad:

Sorry, I digress. Plants have no consciousness. They have no cerebral cortex, no brain, no central nervous system.

Yah, he must have started that cult.

I consider myself an environmentalist, we should all be concerned about our environment, but the extremest really mess it up for everyone else.
jmdirt
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Re: Re:

01 Jul 2017 03:28

Alpe d'Huez wrote:
jmdirt wrote:There was a guy in Oregon in the '80s who could hear trees cry when loggers fell them.

You mean like these people?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFUDEmMjC-c

As someone who considers myself environmentally conscious, these types of idiots did way more harm than good. It used to drive me up the wall when the Nature Conservancy (who I have donated to, and volunteered for) would go to rural areas to purchase land, or do land swaps working with locals, then these kind of lunatics would come along crying over trees, and then the conservative right would react, and clump all environmentalists together, as if the Nature Conservancy and ELF were one and the same. How many wrongs does it take to make a right? :mad:

Sorry, I digress. Plants have no consciousness. They have no cerebral cortex, no brain, no central nervous system.


sentience is not the same as consciousness. and vive versa. given the primitive and barbaric stages of much western medical practice and bio science, (and recent advances of cellular understanding) I'd think such blanket statements might be checked.

Guess not. Go humans.
aphronesis
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01 Jul 2017 04:22

These are very interesting reads:

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141111-plants-have-a-hidden-internet

http://e360.yale.edu/features/exploring_how_and_why_trees_talk_to_each_other

There's also a Ted Talk linked in the BBC article, though I haven't watched it.
dusty red roads
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02 Jul 2017 19:22

...........dismissing plankton ..grass etc what about trees that may live many thousands of years

hard for humans to grasp something living a millennium let alone many.............

just as hard to grasp evolution................easier if it's a conscious being that understands the advantages
of certain traits

plants too have developed sophisticated systems that are unlikely to have been chanced upon?

Mark L
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02 Jul 2017 20:48

aphronesis
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Re: consciouseness of plants?

02 Jul 2017 22:15

ebandit wrote:on my ramble i'm daydreaming as always..........................

plants react to their surroundings is it possible that they are aware on a deeper
level/

after all they have been around for longer and possibly further along an evolutionary
path?

for sure plants operate more slowly that us humans.........but also us humans operate
slower than flies...................

just that we are mobile and posess tools to chop and judge other things within the
parameters of our own experience

..........i know!! if true where would veggies turn.........

Mark L

Just to kid around a bit, with what assistance do you ramble and daydream?
Sorry. Not a just question I know. Just couldn't resist. :)
After all, Einstein dreamed and questioned how things in the universe worked.

Just for grins, as for plants being slower than humans, a valid comparison requires finding a task that each specie performs. Plants are great at photosynthesis, but humans can't perform that task. In fact, we cannot compare specifics. We can only compare generalities, like:
- One large tree can lift up to 100 gallons of water out of the ground and discharge it into the air in a day. How much water can a human drink and pee in a day?
- One large tree can provide a day's supply of oxygen for up to four people.
- Trees trap more of the sun's energy than any other group of organisms on earth. Only 0.1% of the sun's energy is trapped by organisms. Trees account for 50% of all energy trapped by organisms.
- Trees are some of the oldest living organisms on earth. So on that basis if plants are conscious, who's smarter? Humans or trees?

As for plants in general, if I like them and they are in their proper place on my property, I take care of them.
If they are in the wrong place on my property, I get rid of them even if I like them.
Or transplant them if they are really special.
If I don't like them on my property, they are toast.
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03 Jul 2017 00:07

I slept in Aguirre Spring Park near Las Cruces NM and I can tell you that the plants are alive..so are the cicada..
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Re: consciouseness of plants?

04 Jul 2017 10:03

ebandit wrote:...plants react to their surroundings is it possible that they are aware on a deeper
level...

I read this book many decades ago. Worth reading. "The Secret Life of Plants".
https://www.amazon.com/Secret-Life-Plants-Fascinating-Emotional/dp/0060915870
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06 Jul 2017 14:07

new to myself.............i was watching a daughter vine seeking out a host plant to attach to
and suck out it's life..........

so nicotine is a poison produced by a plant to deter ingestion..........only humans would be stoopid
enough to seek...............

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i guess others have a lot to learn too instead of ever looking outwards and upwards

Mark L
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11 Jul 2017 14:29

And there is this too: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-plants-think-daniel-chamovitz/ And this: https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-01-09/new-research-plant-intelligence-may-forever-change-how-you-think-about-plants Or this (watch the video too): https://www.pachamama.org/blog/do-plants-have-consciousness How much of any of that, or any of the other sites like that are over reaching is anyones guess, it could be simply tree huggers trying to "humanize" plants to convince the non tree huggers that plants are worthy of praises, or it could be simply chemical reactions going on. At this time with our technology as it is we won't know for certain.
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11 Jul 2017 19:17

.....and my despair at another boring flat stage tomorrow in the tour?..........is

that really more than a chemical reaction....................................

....my urge to ruck with her with big breasts down the street is just instinct after all

Mark L
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