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Sex, Gender and related issues

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09 Jul 2017 02:38

Ruby United wrote:
No faction in history has had anywhere close to as high a suicide rate. Blacks in slavery, women without rights and even Jews in the Holocaust have a lower suicide rate. There is NO ways Transgenders are discriminated against more than Jews in the Holocaust where 6 million were massacred under the auspices of a genocidal maniac.


There’s a very obvious difference between blacks, women and Jews, on the one hand, and transgenders, on the other. Members of the former classes have never questioned their identity. They were born as members of those minorities, with the exception of a relatively small number of people who convert to Judaism, and are not faced with any ambiguity, choice, conflict or guilt about it. They know who they are, and for better or worse, know there is nothing they can do about it. While they may have been considered inferior, their right to exist—certainly in the case of women and blacks—has never been questioned.

Jews may be a little different in that regard, but they also have a very strong social support system, based on a sacred tradition that transgenders lack. Jews in the concentration camps facing death could at least be comforted by belonging to a major religion that they felt would survive. Transgenders have never had the advantage of this support. They are far more psychologically isolated. Even now, when social acceptance is growing, they have to build a social history that Jews are born into.

It's hard to argue, knowing this, that there (sic) Transgender isn't linked to a mental illness.


I think Alpe’s response to this is excellent. If one regards attempted suicide as an expression of mental illness, then by definition transgender is linked to mental illness. But the word “link” is often used to imply a genetic or other biological association, and there is no evidence of one I’m aware of.
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Re: Re:

09 Jul 2017 03:42

Benotti69 wrote:
Ruby United wrote:
Netserk wrote:
Ruby United wrote:
Catwhoorg wrote:The high suicide rates are correlated with the low levels of acceptance historically of LBGTQ issues

Think back to Obree and how hiding/suppressing his homosexuality fed his depression and suicidal thoughts.



No faction in history has had anywhere close to as high a suicide rate. Blacks in slavery, women without rights and even Jews in the Holocaust have a lower suicide rate. There is NO ways Transgenders are discriminated against more than Jews in the Holocaust where 6 million were massacred under the auspices of a genocidal maniac.
It's hard to argue, knowing this, that there Transgender isn't linked to a mental illness.
How, through logic, can you argue for the 40+% suicide rate.

Wow.

:surprised:

I'd advice you to be a little bit more humble when concluding that a particular high suicide rate means that transgenders are mentally ill.


I knew my opinion - based on facts - would not be popular.
That does not make it any less true.
Though I appreciate the fact that the conversation has remained civil.


Being transgender does not equate to being mentally ill.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-tannehill/the-truth-about-transgend_b_8564834.html

Cant be easy to live trapped in the body of the opposite sex. I think it would drive a lot of people to suicide.


Just curious. What does this mean?
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09 Jul 2017 11:08

That means some people are trans, Jspear.
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Re:

09 Jul 2017 12:56

hrotha wrote:That means some people are trans, Jspear.


That's not what I mean? I guess my question is - is sex biological or is it mental?
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09 Jul 2017 13:44

Sex is your physical body. Gender is psychological/identity.
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Re: Re:

09 Jul 2017 18:39

Jspear wrote:
hrotha wrote:That means some people are trans, Jspear.


That's not what I mean? I guess my question is - is sex biological or is it mental?
There's tons of info about transgender out there, if you are willing to keep an open mind and read. (Crikes, even the LGBs have issues with including the trans people in their group... transgender people seem to find very little acceptance/understanding everywhere they go.)

https://www.advocate.com/transgender
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Re: Re:

09 Jul 2017 18:58

Jspear wrote:
hrotha wrote:That means some people are trans, Jspear.


That's not what I mean? I guess my question is - is sex biological or is it mental?

Sex is biological. Gender is much, much, much more complicated. The Bugis of Indonesia recognize five distinct ones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_in_Bugis_society

In other words, you can have a diik and be programmed to want to do something other than have missionary s3x with a virginal w0man. Try an experiment. Put on a dress and see if you want to kiss a man.

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09 Jul 2017 22:00

So when your sex doesn't match your gender, is it a biological flaw or a mental flaw?
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Re:

09 Jul 2017 22:01

Netserk wrote:Sex is your physical body. Gender is psychological/identity.


That's a strange statement considering how finicky the human mind is.
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10 Jul 2017 14:41

Right, I really hope I've managed to split this ok and I've not butchered the meaning of anyones posts etc. I apologise if I removed parts of your posts that were appropriate in the other thread, I just wasn't comfortable making decisions for people and thought it better that people repost there themselves.
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Re: Re:

10 Jul 2017 15:02

Jspear wrote:
Netserk wrote:Sex is your physical body. Gender is psychological/identity.


That's a strange statement considering how finicky the human mind is.


How about instead of "mind", gender is a cultural/sociological construct that can be inhabited, accepted, manipulated etc.

This is the classic text

https://www.amazon.com/Gender-Trouble-Feminism-Subversion-Routledge/dp/0415389550
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10 Jul 2017 15:17

This is'n't exactly what is being discussed here, or maybe it is. I 'side watched' a documentary on people who are born as female (no testicles or penis), but once they hit puberty (burst of hormones) they develop a penis and testicles.

I also remember reading a research paper about male__________________female being much more of as continuum than just male/female.

The only way I will accept the mental illness assertion is if we are discussing depression on a clinical level. And then it gets into what several other have discussed above.

It isn't important to me what gender someone is or identifies as, just like it doesn't matter to me what religion you are, skin color you have, etc.
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Re:

10 Jul 2017 17:03

King Boonen wrote:Right, I really hope I've managed to split this ok and I've not butchered the meaning of anyones posts etc. I apologise if I removed parts of your posts that were appropriate in the other thread, I just wasn't comfortable making decisions for people and thought it better that people repost there themselves.



Thanks for doing this. I hated derailing the other thread.
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Re:

16 Jul 2017 21:52

Jspear wrote:So when your sex doesn't match your gender, is it a biological flaw or a mental flaw?


Or not a flaw at all.
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Re:

16 Jul 2017 23:18

Jspear wrote:So when your sex doesn't match your gender, is it a biological flaw or a mental flaw?

Sex and gender can be defined, but it is also somewhat semantic.

IMO flaw is the wrong word. Maybe variation is more accurate, again IMO.
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Re: Re:

17 Jul 2017 04:04

ScienceIsCool wrote:
Jspear wrote:
hrotha wrote:That means some people are trans, Jspear.


That's not what I mean? I guess my question is - is sex biological or is it mental?

Sex is biological. Gender is much, much, much more complicated. The Bugis of Indonesia recognize five distinct ones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_in_Bugis_society

In other words, you can have a diik and be programmed to want to do something other than have missionary s3x with a virginal w0man. Try an experiment. Put on a dress and see if you want to kiss a man.

John Swanson

There was an experiment done by psycologists back in the late sixties (if memory serves me correctly), where they surgically altered the genitals of a boy in an attempt to turn it into a girl, and then raised it as a girl. It's male twin was the "control" - or something like that.
The whole thing failed dismally when they got to teenager-dom, and ended in suicide...
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17 Jul 2017 04:31

Yeah, that sounds like structural modernism.
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