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03 Sep 2017 12:06

All very true, but Saddam and Gaddafi never threatened the USA so. Kim Jong is far crazier than either of them ever were.

1. as there is plenty of evidence, the us does not need a direct threat from anyone to start a war anywhere. they just declare (usually a blatant lie as, for instance, in iraq) that they DEFEND against some perceived threat to an ally or a self-appointed keeper to a 'free word' order. bingo, bombbbb, boo boom...
2. to any rational mind, the fat face certainly comes across as a madman... but is he for real or is acting mad since his tool box is got only 1 or 2 effective replies ? a threat of a universal nuclear war is just one...the annihilation of seoul (just across the border) is yet another.

his threats to america are the theatrical stunts to convince his subjects that his lil dijk is bigger than it is. it is obvious what will happen if he attacks the us directly.

again, i think he's is some sort of collusion with china (and perhaps russia) to drive the us militarism out of the neighborhood
DJPbaltimore:'John Kerry is an honorable person and would not call out the Russians if there was not evidence', 'the 2 of you are russia stooges'
in foreign policy there are no eternal friendships or eternal enemies, only eternal interests
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Re:

03 Sep 2017 12:34

python wrote:
All very true, but Saddam and Gaddafi never threatened the USA so. Kim Jong is far crazier than either of them ever were.

1. as there is plenty of evidence, the us does not need a direct threat from anyone to start a war anywhere. they just declare (usually a blatant lie as, for instance, in iraq) that they DEFEND against some perceived threat to an ally or a self-appointed keeper to a 'free word' order. bingo, bombbbb, boo boom...
2. to any rational mind, the fat face certainly comes across as a madman... but is he for real or is acting mad since his tool box is got only 1 or 2 effective replies ? a threat of a universal nuclear war is just one...the annihilation of seoul (just across the border) is yet another.

his threats to america are the theatrical stunts to convince his subjects that his lil dijk is bigger than it is. it is obvious what will happen if he attacks the us directly.

again, i think he's is some sort of collusion with china (and perhaps russia) to drive the us militarism out of the neighborhood


....the big problem he is in direct confrontation with the blood thirsty psychopaths who run the Fourth Reich...

The US is the only country to have used nuclear weapons, when it dropped two atomic bombs on Japan – just three weeks after it successfully tested the weapon in the New Mexico desert on July 16, 1945. The attacks on Japan killed at least 200,000 civilians. Official US justifications about swiftly ending the Pacific War with Japan are dubious and arguably irrelevant to the immoral barbarity.

Since the end of the Second World War, the US has engaged in dozens of wars in dozens of countries, according to respected historians such as William Blum, with an estimated death toll of 20 million. Since the end of the Cold War with the Soviet Union, the US has been in a state of permanent war over the past two decades, carrying out aerial bombardments in up to seven countries simultaneously. Official US justifications for these wars are dubious if not contemptible.

The incontestable fact is that the US is the biggest serial violator of international law with the blood of millions of civilians on its hands. It is arguable that Nazi Germany’s Third Reich was succeeded by a Fourth Reich in the US.
The US may not have used nuclear bombs since the mass destruction carried out in Japan in 1945. But in spite of the heinous shame of its unique criminality, American leaders continually reserve the right to threaten other nations with nuclear annihilation. The oft-repeated phrase "all options on the table" is the Orwellian language used by the US to refer to its self-ordained prerogative to use nuclear weapons, codified in its "first-strike doctrine."
US President Donald Trump routinely invokes the veiled threat of nuclear annihilation against North Korea. His warning of "fire and fury like the world has never seen before" is a chilling reference. While Trump’s senior administration have sought to temper his comments with vaguely worded possible diplomacy, they too at other times openly use the "all options on the table" nuclear threat.

North Korea’s defiant testing of ballistic missiles is wrongly presented by Western media in complete isolation from the crucial context of the United States habitually threatening Pyongyang with pre-emptive war.

Both Russia and China have rebuked the US for its current display of military force during its annual “war games” on the Korean Peninsula as being destabilizing. But with incorrigible arrogance, Washington insists on its right to conduct such “defensive” maneuvers, and the Western media dutifully indulge this irrational distortion.


North Korea has not been at war with any country since the end of the 1950-53 Korean War when it fought against the US-backed South. By contrast, the US has gone on to launch wars against dozens of countries under various pretexts, as well as retain a war-footing against North Korea by refusing to sign a peace treaty. If that’s because Kim Jong-un is a "dictator," then what about Saudi Arabia?

Nearly 50 years after signing the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), which mandates nuclear weapons states to disarm, the US is the process of upgrading its nuclear arsenal at a cost of $400 billion over the next 10 years, or at least $1,000 billion over the next 30 years, according to SIPRI. (That financial outlay will no doubt bring cheer to the millions of survivors of Hurricane Harvey.)

Out of the 193 member states of the United Nations, only nine are believed to possess nuclear weapons. The US, Russia, China, Britain, France, India, Pakistan, North Korea and Israel. All of them are in the process of upgrading their nuclear stockpiles, not disarming
.

In every case, the Western media distort and sanitize the criminal conduct of their governments.

The crisis with North Korea is another classic case of Western media distorting reality and audaciously inverting the problem.

The objective facts clearly show that, by far, the biggest threat to world security – perhaps even world survival – is the United States with its track record of war-making and systematic decimation of international law.


Only in a thoroughly Orwellian brainwashed world, as presented by the Western media, could North Korea be viewed as "the threat."

Infernally, not only is such a warped view of the world making a catastrophic war more likely, it is also precluding the morally rational option of a diplomatic, peaceful solution
.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/47730.htm

....and lets remember the push to nuclear capability on NK's part came in very large part from a full bore diplomatic cock-up on the part of the Fourth Reich....and there is the fact the two nations are still technically at war....this whole mess is powered by much the same thinking that underscores Merikan diplomacy vis-à-vis Cuba...read, diplomacy by petulant children who think they are doing God's work, not unlike Jihadists with nuclear capability....

....and then there is the "need" to have a military presence close to China....

...just saying eh...

....and furthermore gonna be real interesting how the upcoming Korean elections are going to play out....word is a great many South Koreans are really not that thrilled to be put in the direct line of fire by idiotic sabre rattling by a bunch of chicken hawk fools in Washington....one election outcome, and it has been posted here, is the US military presence in SK will either be greatly reduced or eliminated, and the recent diplomatic overtures to China will start bearing some serious fruit....

Cheers
Last edited by blutto on 03 Sep 2017 20:25, edited 1 time in total.
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03 Sep 2017 20:21

:lol: Boooooom . It's WAR. :lol:
The world is run by insane lunatics who seem happy to create as many wars as the can .
The war on terror is a funking joke created to sell arms and expand the US idiology world wide i.e. Money and power. What was that paper ,the project for the new American century. All playing out as cited in that document/policy. John pilger talked about it recently in the itv documentry he did. Trump ,Clinton , Obama .it makes no difference. The wars escalate . Booooom
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Re: Re:

03 Sep 2017 20:29

moving target wrote:
It means much bigger than the bombs dropped in WWII.
here's an interesting personal bit (but i wont say too much to keep my privacy)...

during our vacation trip across the us southwest last month, we visited the albuquerque museum of nuclear science & history. i had to visit the place since i have had some direct relation to the entire subject professionally. ..

to make it brief, it's an absolutely fascinating place. i actually touched the same shells of the hiroshima and nagasaki atomic bombs. when i asked if these were just models, the tour guide said they were the actual metal shells (a few dozens were produced) of the dropped atomic bombs (but of course w/o the atomic warhead). the shells were produced in numbers for testing etc...anyways, and this is what bugs me - the very ignorance/disregard for accuracy of the majority of the western sources - the museum descriptors for the hiroshima bomb was 13 kilotonnes of tnt and the nagasaki bomb was scripted as 16 Kt of tnt. to me, it is quite different from the 15 to 20 KT TNT range described !

anyways, one of the concerned parties (japan ?) today claimed the blast was the equivalent of 70 KT of tnt. if so, it is almost for sure an h-bomb. bad news for the pentagon.

even india, pakistan and israel are considered by the nuclear experts NOT having the h-bombs.

my opinion - the norkors are not bluffing and their progress isn't all (or at all) indigenous.
DJPbaltimore:'John Kerry is an honorable person and would not call out the Russians if there was not evidence', 'the 2 of you are russia stooges'
in foreign policy there are no eternal friendships or eternal enemies, only eternal interests
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Re: Re:

03 Sep 2017 20:57

python wrote:moving target wrote:
It means much bigger than the bombs dropped in WWII.
here's an interesting personal bit (but i wont say too much to keep my privacy)...

during our vacation trip across the us southwest last month, we visited the albuquerque museum of nuclear science & history. i had to visit the place since i have had some direct relation to the entire subject professionally. ..

to make it brief, it's an absolutely fascinating place. i actually touched the same shells of the hiroshima and nagasaki atomic bombs. when i asked if these were just models, the tour guide said they were the actual metal shells (a few dozens were produced) of the dropped atomic bombs (but of course w/o the atomic warhead). the shells were produced in numbers for testing etc...anyways, and this is what bugs me - the very ignorance/disregard for accuracy of the majority of the western sources - the museum descriptors for the hiroshima bomb was 13 kilotonnes of tnt and the nagasaki bomb was scripted as 16 Kt of tnt. to me, it is quite different from the 15 to 20 KT TNT range described !

anyways, one of the concerned parties (japan ?) today claimed the blast was the equivalent of 70 KT of tnt. if so, it is almost for sure an h-bomb. bad news for the pentagon.

even india, pakistan and israel are considered by the nuclear experts NOT having the h-bombs.

my opinion - the norkors are not bluffing and their progress isn't all (or at all) indigenous.


....so who would potentially have H-bomb technology to sell ?.....rhetorical question ?.....or do I just have a outsized axe to grind ?.....

Cheers
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03 Sep 2017 23:13

....much interesting here....

South Korea’s newly elected president, Moon Jae-in, keeps insisting that the US must not launch war against North Korea without South Korea’s agreement.

President Donald Trump and the US media appear not to have heard Moon’s pleas, or are simply disregarding them.

Amazingly, six decades after the end of the 1950 Korean War, South Korea’s 650,000-man active armed forces and 4.2 million-man reserves remain under the command of a US four-star general. This neo-colonial arrangement was supposed to have ended years ago, but successive conservative South Korean governments maintained their nation’s acceptance of Washington’s Asian Raj. So does Japan
.

At the same time, North Koreans are jumping for joy that their nation just launched a medium-range missile over Japan that panicked and humiliated the much hated Japanese. The missile launch came on the anniversary of Japan’s takeover of Korea as a colony in 1910. Imperial Japan exploited and humiliated the proud Koreans, treating them as sub-humans. Koreans have never forgotten. Many long for revenge.


....which leads to this...

Point defense missiles – Japan’s current response – won’t give it adequate protection. As France’s Maginot Line so dramatically showed, fixed defenses can be overcome by spirited, innovative offensives. To defend itself, Japan – and perhaps South Korea – need massive retaliatory capability. But even then, if there is a north Asian nuclear conflict, it’s likely North Korea will save at least one or two nuclear missiles for revenge against Japan
.

China’s Foreign Ministry has proposed the obvious, sensible solution to this trumped-up crisis: the US to cease its provocative annual air, land and naval demonstration around North Korea’s borders in return for the North outing a moratorium on its provocative missile tests. So far, Washington has refused this sensible solution.

Meanwhile, in a little-noticed, menacing statement, China’s Ministry of Defense just warned that China ‘would not allow’ US or South Korea troops to enter North Korea. This is a very serious warning that deserves utmost attention in Washington.

It reminds me of Imperial Russia’s warning Austro-Hungary not to invade Serbia in the fall of 1914 – or else. The ‘or else’ came: World War I. And, of course, Mao’s China warning US Gen. Douglas MacArthur not to cross the Yalu River in 1950 – or else. Soon after, 500,000 Chinese troops invaded Korea
.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/09/eric-margolis/time-listen-south-korea/

Cheers
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Re: Re:

04 Sep 2017 08:00

blutto wrote:
python wrote:moving target wrote:
It means much bigger than the bombs dropped in WWII.
here's an interesting personal bit (but i wont say too much to keep my privacy)...

during our vacation trip across the us southwest last month, we visited the albuquerque museum of nuclear science & history. i had to visit the place since i have had some direct relation to the entire subject professionally. ..

to make it brief, it's an absolutely fascinating place. i actually touched the same shells of the hiroshima and nagasaki atomic bombs. when i asked if these were just models, the tour guide said they were the actual metal shells (a few dozens were produced) of the dropped atomic bombs (but of course w/o the atomic warhead). the shells were produced in numbers for testing etc...anyways, and this is what bugs me - the very ignorance/disregard for accuracy of the majority of the western sources - the museum descriptors for the hiroshima bomb was 13 kilotonnes of tnt and the nagasaki bomb was scripted as 16 Kt of tnt. to me, it is quite different from the 15 to 20 KT TNT range described !

anyways, one of the concerned parties (japan ?) today claimed the blast was the equivalent of 70 KT of tnt. if so, it is almost for sure an h-bomb. bad news for the pentagon.

even india, pakistan and israel are considered by the nuclear experts NOT having the h-bombs.

my opinion - the norkors are not bluffing and their progress isn't all (or at all) indigenous.


....so who would potentially have H-bomb technology to sell ?.....rhetorical question ?.....or do I just have a outsized axe to grind ?.....

Cheers
first off, excellent articles up thread - right along my expressed views. regarding your questions, i am going to speculate that OFFICIALLY all states in the possession of the thermonuclear (h-bomb) technology would guard the proliferation seriously. but the hundreds of scientists and engineers, particularly those left unemployed after the implosion of the su, would be a fair pool to fish in.

in this regard, the possession of the h-bomb technology in and of itself would be secondary imo to mastering the long range intercontinental ballistic missilery. you may recall the ukraine's role according to american media. it is more than plausible their corrupt system contributed to both the norkor h-bomb and missilery...
DJPbaltimore:'John Kerry is an honorable person and would not call out the Russians if there was not evidence', 'the 2 of you are russia stooges'
in foreign policy there are no eternal friendships or eternal enemies, only eternal interests
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Re: Re:

04 Sep 2017 10:39

python wrote:
blutto wrote:
python wrote:moving target wrote:
It means much bigger than the bombs dropped in WWII.
here's an interesting personal bit (but i wont say too much to keep my privacy)...

during our vacation trip across the us southwest last month, we visited the albuquerque museum of nuclear science & history. i had to visit the place since i have had some direct relation to the entire subject professionally. ..

to make it brief, it's an absolutely fascinating place. i actually touched the same shells of the hiroshima and nagasaki atomic bombs. when i asked if these were just models, the tour guide said they were the actual metal shells (a few dozens were produced) of the dropped atomic bombs (but of course w/o the atomic warhead). the shells were produced in numbers for testing etc...anyways, and this is what bugs me - the very ignorance/disregard for accuracy of the majority of the western sources - the museum descriptors for the hiroshima bomb was 13 kilotonnes of tnt and the nagasaki bomb was scripted as 16 Kt of tnt. to me, it is quite different from the 15 to 20 KT TNT range described !

anyways, one of the concerned parties (japan ?) today claimed the blast was the equivalent of 70 KT of tnt. if so, it is almost for sure an h-bomb. bad news for the pentagon.

even india, pakistan and israel are considered by the nuclear experts NOT having the h-bombs.

my opinion - the norkors are not bluffing and their progress isn't all (or at all) indigenous.


....so who would potentially have H-bomb technology to sell ?.....rhetorical question ?.....or do I just have a outsized axe to grind ?.....

Cheers
first off, excellent articles up thread - right along my expressed views. regarding your questions, i am going to speculate that OFFICIALLY all states in the possession of the thermonuclear (h-bomb) technology would guard the proliferation seriously. but the hundreds of scientists and engineers, particularly those left unemployed after the implosion of the su, would be a fair pool to fish in.

in this regard, the possession of the h-bomb technology in and of itself would be secondary imo to mastering the long range intercontinental ballistic missilery. you may recall the ukraine's role according to american media. it is more than plausible their corrupt system contributed to both the norkor h-bomb and missilery...


....my thoughts exactly....with friends like that who needs enemies....indeed !...

Cheers
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Re: World Politics

04 Sep 2017 17:31

....this is not so good eh....

The United States has once again seized diplomatic and consular properties belonging to the Russia Federation and is in the process of conducting raid style searches of the properties which are set to formally begin on the 4th of September.

These actions which first took place in the final full month of Barack Obama’s Presidency and are now taking place at additional Russian diplomatic and consular facilities in the United States under Donald Trump’s Presidency, violate clearly codified international laws which are contained in documents known as the Vienna Conventions.

The following are the provisions of the Vienna Conventions that are presently being violated by the United States.

From the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations


Article 22

1. The premises of the mission shall be inviolable. The agents
of the receiving State may not enter them, except with the consent of
the head of the mission.

2. The receiving State is under a special duty to take all
appropriate steps to protect the premises of the mission against any
intrusion or damage and to prevent any disturbance of the peace of the
mission or impairment of its dignity.

3. The premises of the mission, their furnishings and other
property thereon and the means of transport of the mission shall be
immune from search, requisition, attachment or execution.

From the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations


Article 31

Inviolability of the consular premises

1.Consular premises shall be inviolable to the extent provided in this article.

2.The authorities of the receiving State shall not enter that part of the consular premises which is
used exclusively for the purpose of the work of the consular post except with the consent of the head of the consular post or of his designee or of the head of the diplomatic mission of the sending State. The consent of the head of the consular post may, however, be assumed in case of fire or other disaster requiring prompt protective action.

3.Subject to the provisions of paragraph 2 of this article, the receiving State is under a special
duty to take all appropriate steps to protect the consular premises against any intrusion or damage and to prevent any disturbance of the peace of the consular post or impairment of its dignity.

4.The consular premises, their furnishings, the property of the consular post and its means of
transport shall be immune from any form of requisition for purposes of national defence or public utility.

If expropriation is necessary for such purposes, all possible steps shall be taken to avoid impeding the performance of consular functions, and prompt, adequate and effective compensation shall be paid to the sending State.

In summary, these statues of international law codified by the United Nations in 1961 (Diplomatic) and 1963 (Consular) mean that irrespective of the condition of relations between the sending state (in this case Russia) and the receiving state (in this case the US), the diplomatic and consular properties in question must remain free from any kind of molestation including searches, raids, property seizures and the infringement of normal and dignified working practices.

Each of these items of law has been clearly violated by the United States. The US has prohibited diplomatic and consular workers from pursuing their work under normal circumstances. The US molested the peace and freedom of such workers and their families on a personal level and the US is in the process of preparing to raid the diplomatic and consular properties which the law states are clearly inviolable.

Even in times of conflict that run much deeper than the current political disputes between Washington and Moscow, the Vienna Conventions have a precedent of being adhered to.

In 1984, an individual inside the Libyan Embassy in London shot and killed a UK police officer. The shots were fired from inside the embassy onto the street below.

Although many called for the suspect to be brought to trail in an English court, the UK government at the time, a government that had generally poor relations Libya in any case, observed the Vienna Conventions and allowed the embassy workers to return to Libya safely after being named persona-non-grata, something which is sanctioned by the Vienna Conventions


https://alethonews.wordpress.com/2017/09/02/us-actions-against-russian-diplomatic-and-consular-property-are-illegal-heres-why/

Cheers
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04 Sep 2017 20:21

^the us actions wrt diplomatic convention and practice are weird.

again and again, and i am using the analogy from my every-day experience, the over-reactive rudeness and arrogance with which the us is treating those diplomats is indicative not of strength but of insecurity and weakness. i suspect that a politically skilled chess player like vlad will will NOT use the obvious 'mirror' retaliation but an indirect his vintage dig that the us will feel the pain of...

and there are more than enough opportunities considering the several former friends now turning either enemies or choosing the new sponsors.

the 2 immediate examples from my recent readings are egypt and pakistan.

the us recent cutting the egypt financial aide (officially due to 'poor human rights record') sounds particularly intellectually insulting in the light of the us support of the world champion of the human right abuses - the house of saud. a pure hypocrisy ! i doubt very much that the authoritarian sisi will bend to the unimaginative pressure. a case in point, he was invited to the brics summit in china - an alternative to the west alliances - and widely praised for his role in syria and the wide anti-terror actions.

the situation with pakistan is a little more complicated..they increasingly got closer to china at the expense of america and refused to bend over when told to fall into line. very briefly, the us is adamant about fighting taliban militarily and the Pakis want them a part of the negotiated solution. i doubt very much that trump understands a simple truth - without the pakistan cooperation the us cant win the afghan war or at least come to a face-saving conclusion.

in both cases russia has more than enough spoiler cards to fukc america for its overbearing rudeness and arrogance. and they will. that's what vlad is known for - not leaving any insult w/o a reply. on his terms. at his chosen time...

and i am not even touching on the trump troubles with germany and turkey. to play those is yet another game that trump is simply not capable of.
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05 Sep 2017 18:36

it's pretty obvious that this of kim is just speculation for the market , it's so simple , North korea Always did the test so now all of a sudden trump want to do a war pathethic
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05 Sep 2017 18:55

Speculation for the market? Which market would that be?

If Trump wanted to 'all of a sudden do a war pathetic' it would have already begun.
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Re:

05 Sep 2017 19:34

Scott SoCal wrote:Speculation for the market? Which market would that be?

If Trump wanted to 'all of a sudden do a war pathetic' it would have already begun.

SOME great and glorious trolling you just replied to. :)

I was also wondering about which market applied?
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Re:

05 Sep 2017 22:24

Scott SoCal wrote:...[snip]

If Trump wanted to 'all of a sudden do a war pathetic' it would have already begun.
i could be wrong but the us strike on norkor or not is entirely in the hands of...not japan, not china, not the useless un talking heads, but the south koreans

why ? b/c it is them, including the seoul residents hobbling a few dozen miles from the norkor multiple rocket launchers to take the instant retaliation due to its ease w/o the norkor ever engaging the nukes.

unless the trump admin had gone completely unruly with their own inter-department differences on the action, which i doubt, there will be NO us strike on norkor UNLESS the south kor said 'go ahead'

trump may be chafing but i do not think he's the nut his domestic enemies want everyone to see. my opinion.
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06 Sep 2017 08:02

it's ovious , Obama didn't worry to much of nKorea , now trump worries and yen goes up and euro goes up ,and gold goes up and oil goes up , to you this is not speculation?
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06 Sep 2017 15:51

Oh.

So "fire and fury" was about driving down the dollar and driving up oil prices.

BTW, Obama ignoring the fat kid has had repercussions. ICBM's, miniaturized thermo-nuclear war heads to name two.

Can't wait to see what Iran does.
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06 Sep 2017 16:40

Go back on their agreement, if Trump continues to antagonise them. They've even elected a president who ran on a platform which was incredibly open to the west and reformist - and yet the US government still hates them.
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Re:

06 Sep 2017 17:08

Brullnux wrote:Go back on their agreement, if Trump continues to antagonise them. They've even elected a president who ran on a platform which was incredibly open to the west and reformist - and yet the US government still hates them.


Which agreement would that be... the one with the Clinton admin in 1994? $5 billion in aid in exchange for a promise to drop their pursuit of nuclear weapons?

Who's antagonizing whom?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TcbU5jAavw
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