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Re: World Politics

13 May 2017 16:07

BullsFan22 wrote:
blutto wrote:
BullsFan22 wrote:How long until the Democrats push for a travel ban for Russians?


....would be the appropriate thing to do wouldn't it....?.....

Cheers



Very much so.


....do you think this may get the Democrats to reconsider their totally irrational response to the bigly greatest thing ever Wall Project....I mean it would really be solidifying a travel ban thingee, like really close the door in their evil Russkie faces eh....

Cheers
User avatar blutto
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13 May 2017 21:25

Just a question for the Portuguese members of the forum: how good is the current opposition? As in, on a scale of UK Labour to 10, where would you rank it?
Brullnux
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14 May 2017 08:41

So, that uprising of populist right parties that was predicted all over Europe fizzled very quickly. Netherlands, Austria, France and soon also Germany with AfD imploding: all disappointments from the view of the Trumpistas, the Farrages. Is it the novelty of it all wearing off, or is it the realisation that things in the US and UK aren't exactly proceeding as they had envisaged. Whatever it is, I'm quite happy with it, and I think it can be a boost to implement some changes for the good in the workings of the EU.

Image
User avatar Jagartrott
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Re:

14 May 2017 09:58

Jagartrott wrote:So, that uprising of populist right parties that was predicted all over Europe fizzled very quickly. Netherlands, Austria, France and soon also Germany with AfD imploding: all disappointments from the view of the Trumpistas, the Farrages. Is it the novelty of it all wearing off, or is it the realisation that things in the US and UK aren't exactly proceeding as they had envisaged. Whatever it is, I'm quite happy with it, and I think it can be a boost to implement some changes for the good in the workings of the EU.

Image



Well, to be fair to them (maybe that's a poor choice of words), but most of the populist parties are fairly new. The AfD for example really only got going in 2013. Wilders' party isn't that old either. The FN is is by far the most established far right party in Europe, and they've been around, but as I said, most of them have manifested in the past 5-10 years. What about the SD in your country? They've been around for almost 30 years, they've made some headway in recent years as well. Austria is interesting because for the first since...in like forever...the main election didn't involve the two main parties-the OVP and SPO. It was the FPO and the Greens that were in the final election. Actually I think this is where Europe may be heading. People are tired of the status quo, so you'll see more minor parties getting votes and especially populist (both left and right). That said, in Germany Merkel's party, the CDU, has tightened the grip and the other parties are playing catch up. It really all depends how badly the technocrats keep screwing Europe.
BullsFan22
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14 May 2017 13:47

The AfD was never going to do well in Germany, I feel. The SNP have got a bit closer but the CDU still seems strong.

The core FN support has risen 3-4% in 15 years. There are many more sympathetic to the FN nowadays, but not that many support it outright. Wilders went strong but out of all these politicians he is by far the one I dislike the most. He has a pure and utter contempt for the people, and have them the crappiest manifesto I think I have ever seen. 11 points spread out over half a page. And most of them were very minor issues. The SD is pretty strong, not quite SDP levels I think but challenging them. In Austria I'm pretty sure it wasn't the main election but the election of a mostly ceremonial president, but they haven't lost support since that at all. The Danish one is doing OK too.

In Italy the lega nord are having a bit of trouble on deciding whether they like the EU or not (like Le Pen did) and M5S is just extremely confused. But I agree that the future of the EU hinges on whether the technocrats pull the finger out of their arses and do something.
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Re: World Politics

15 May 2017 17:32

Two things are striking me. First how the term "populist" is now becoming an insult. So defending the people against an elite is now an insult. Isn't it evidence that these people hate ... the people? Second those parties are sooo different from each other. Lega Nort are separatists. They don't hate Europe, they hate Italy. A bit like N-VA are separatist aiming at a close relationship between Flanders and the EU making Belgium "an empty shell" (reminder at the Euro Parliament, they are in the same group as the Greens AND the Scottish SNP, despite being labelled "far right"!!), just like the Corsican separatists or the Catalan separatists are campaigning for a "Europe of Regions" at the expense of the poorer regions of the continent.

Image

Geert Wilders is pro-Nato, just like Farage while Marine Le Pen is ambivalent about it but stood up against the Iraq War (something I cannot disapprove of). Wilders also worked for Frits Bolkenstein, so openly in favour of deregulation which clashes with Mrs Le Pen's speech. What all these parties have in common is strict stances against immigration (which they share with some moderate parties) and radical Islamophobia (which they have in common with EVERY moderate parties in Europe and with several "left-wing" posters here). Wilders is also a staunch supporter of Israel, like all mainstream parties in Europe.


Meanwhile President Macron appointed Édouard Philippe as Prime Minister. Mr Philippe was former PR of Areva from 2007 to 2010. During that period Areva started exploiting uranium in Niger on the Touareg lands. The Touareg of course would gain no profit from it and no wonder many of them turned terrorists later.
http://www.observatoire-du-nucleaire.org/spip.php?article330

But shhhh France was under a Fascist thread. Mr Macron is the Messiah! :rolleyes:
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15 May 2017 17:49

I hate the word 'populist' as well and try to refrain from using it as much as possible, or if I use it I use quotation marks or something. Every politician is populist in their own way as every politician tries to pander to people's desires and try to relate to the populace. Be they Melenchon, May, Trump, Renzi or Trudeau. It's ignorant to use the word only for parties which are more radical or defy the norm.
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Re: World Politics

15 May 2017 17:53

Echoes wrote:A bit like N-VA are separatist aiming at a close relationship between Flanders and the EU making Belgium "an empty shell" (reminder at the Euro Parliament, they are in the same group as the Greens AND the Scottish SNP, despite being labelled "far right"!!), just like the Corsican separatists or the Catalan separatists are campaigning for a "Europe of Regions" at the expense of the poorer regions of the continent.

SNP are in the European Free Alliance (EFA), NVA are in the Eurosceptical ECR together with among others Law and Justice (PiS) of Poland and other right-wingers (no greens to be seen).

Brullnux wrote:I hate the word 'populist' as well and try to refrain from using it as much as possible, or if I use it I use quotation marks or something. Every politician is populist in their own way as every politician tries to pander to people's desires and try to relate to the populace. Be they Melenchon, May, Trump, Renzi or Trudeau. It's ignorant to use the word only for parties which are more radical or defy the norm.

I specifically said populist right, and that's what I meant. Populists launch proposals that appeal but that lack in substance. Like the 350 million per week claim of the Brexiteers. They are of course also found on the left and centre, but I do genuinely believe not all parties and politicians are populist.
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15 May 2017 18:19

Being honest about regressive antimodernist tendencies and negative aspects of consumerist culture in some Arab societies is now Islamophobic? Sure thing. It's easy to confuse and elide socio-ethnography and religious fervor whenever convenient isn't it?

@Brullnux, both Gore and Hillary were not populist and it cost them elections. Obama either, but he worked the facade better.
Last edited by aphronesis on 15 May 2017 18:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: World Politics

15 May 2017 18:36

Correction of my previous post: the N-VA (separatist Flemish party) has long been represented in the EFA at the Euro Parliament, is no longer because Greens wanted them out but is still an EFA member along with SNP and Catalan separatists among others. https://english.n-va.be/politieke-woordenlijst/european-free-alliance

Greens and EFA have joint forces since 1999.
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Re:

15 May 2017 19:33

aphronesis wrote:Being honest about regressive antimodernist tendencies and negative aspects of consumerist culture in some Arab societies is now Islamophobic?

Who is 'being honest' about what exactly?
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15 May 2017 20:04

Echoes in his post above took a generic swipe at leftist "Islamophobia" which usually includes rhubroma and myself among others. Both of us have been critical of certain anti-modern tendencies and authoritarian economies but never said anything resembling an Islamic slur.

The last time Echoes produced a potentially embarassing post to the contrary, it was more down to language, sarcasm and provincialism that were blocking the actual meaning of what was said.

Respecting others' right to religion is not the same as mythifying it.
aphronesis
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Re:

16 May 2017 16:29

aphronesis wrote:Echoes in his post above took a generic swipe at leftist "Islamophobia" which usually includes rhubroma and myself among others. Both of us have been critical of certain anti-modern tendencies and authoritarian economies but never said anything resembling an Islamic slur.

The last time Echoes produced a potentially embarassing post to the contrary, it was more down to language, sarcasm and provincialism that were blocking the actual meaning of what was said.

Respecting others' right to religion is not the same as mythifying it.

Stooge maybe but "islamophobia" I never would have thunnnnnnkeddd it.
User avatar Semper Fidelis
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Re: World Politics

17 May 2017 16:01

....wherein people go off their meds, madness follows and they make up crazy stories....

. The deep state is out to get U.S. President Trump impeached. Yesterday a new, well prepared and coordinated campaign against Trump was launched. Anonymous claims to the Washington Post were "confirmed" by similar claims from (likely) the same sources to Buzzfeed. The claims may have some grounds in reality but the actual facts, even as described in shrill words, are harmless. WaPo:

Trump revealed highly classified information to Russian foreign minister and ambassador

President Trump revealed highly classified information to the Russian foreign minister and ambassador in a White House meeting last week, according to current and former U.S. officials, who said Trump’s disclosures jeopardized a critical source of intelligence on the Islamic State.

(Hmm - how would "former U.S. officials" know what was said in the Oval Office and to what consequences?) It takes six paragraphs of such slander to learn what Trump actually disclosed:

Trump went off script and began describing details of an Islamic State terrorist threat related to the use of laptop computers on aircraft.

"Terrorist threat[s] related to the use of laptop computers on aircraft" are a well known method of Al-Qaeda in the Arab Peninsula. If ISIS in Syria has copied that modus operandi it is interesting, but nothing sensational. The details, where ISIS is preparing these operations, may be somewhat relevant, but over how many cites does ISIS actually rule?

National Security Advisor McMaster, who was in the room with Trump and Lavrov, is on the record (down in paragraph eight!) denying that any sources or methods were revealed.

The only real claim here is that Trump gave Lavrov a tip-off with regard to a terrorist threat.

If Putin would learn of a potential ISIS attack on a U.S. passenger jet would you want him to share that secret information with the U.S. government? Of course you would.

But Buzzfeed and other anti-Trump organs blow the claims up to high heavens, The Lawfare writers go off their meds:

If the President gave this information away through carelessness or neglect, he has arguably breached his oath of office.

Utter ******. Trump would have offered such intelligence out of courtesy as part of his deal-making with the Russian government. Exchange of threat intelligence is regular business even between parties who otherwise dislike each other. It is in the interests of all to do such. That such an exchange happened is not newsworthy. even it touched some details.

Even worse - it is the publishing about the Oval office talk that can only help the terrorists. As Emptywheel says:

these very outraged sources are [..] sharing the information that it is so outrageous to share.

If Trump's information sharing is outrageous why did the sources offer that same information to the global media? Why did WaPo and others publish on it?

Trump was elected with the support of the U.S. military. Clinton was supported by the corporate and intelligence sides of the power triangle. Trump won. Now the deep-state intelligence side, together with the moneyed part of the Democratic party, is out to impeach him. The constant sensationalized dribble of false or irrelevant claims against him prepares the ground for that.

The three fake-news examples above contain no news at all. The bits exposed in them have no information value. Their only purpose is to influence the readers by exaggerating outlandish claims based on little, if any, real facts of minor importance.

This full-throated propagandizing on all channels, without any critical voices challenging the basic facts, is endangering the functioning of democracy. The fourth estate is now just a tool to influence. It can no longer claim to have any inherent value
.

For the average person one way out of this onslaught is to search for, use and foster alternative and discerning sources of news. The other is to give up
.

http://www.moonofalabama.org/2017/05/it-is-fakenews-day-on-north-korea-syria-and-the-us-president.html#more

Cheers
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Re: World Politics

17 May 2017 16:09

....oh heck....though no real surprise....

Al Jazeera’s Fall From Grace – How A News Outlet Became A Tool Of The State

Though viewed by many as one of few unbiased news sources in the Middle East, Al Jazeera’s stripes are showing as it expands into social media. The network’s subservience to the government of Qatar has become unmistakably obvious as it tries to expand its audience.


Beginning in 2008 and culminating in 2011-2012, Al Jazeera began seeing mass resignations, with many of its journalists citing loss of editorial control and subservience to Qatari political interests as their main reason for leaving


....and its all downhill from there apparently...

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/47055.htm

Cheers
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Re: World Politics

17 May 2017 18:58

blutto wrote:....oh heck....though no real surprise....

Al Jazeera’s Fall From Grace – How A News Outlet Became A Tool Of The State

Though viewed by many as one of few unbiased news sources in the Middle East, Al Jazeera’s stripes are showing as it expands into social media. The network’s subservience to the government of Qatar has become unmistakably obvious as it tries to expand its audience.


Beginning in 2008 and culminating in 2011-2012, Al Jazeera began seeing mass resignations, with many of its journalists citing loss of editorial control and subservience to Qatari political interests as their main reason for leaving


....and its all downhill from there apparently...

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/47055.htm

Cheers

HMMMM


I was never a fan of the Jazeeeeeerahhh. but I gave them a chance here in merikah and I enjoyed the specials and the information they gave compared to what I was constantly getting from my establishment fishwraps and fish hacks.
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17 May 2017 20:39

"China installs rocket launchers on disputed South China Sea island"

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-china-idUSKCN18D0ER
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Re: World Politics

17 May 2017 23:45

....file under an exceptionally inconvenient truth....

Ignored By Western Media, Syrians Describe the Nightmare the Armed Opposition Brought Them

Trapped between a police state and Al Qaeda, average Syrians explain why they fear regime change


Supporters of the Syrian opposition have relentlessly demanded that Western observers listen to “Syrian voices.” The idea is that by absorbing the testimonies of Syrians who have experienced the violence of the conflict first hand, Westerners will know how to best help them. Yet Western media consumers have scarcely heard from ordinary people who reside within the areas controlled by the government -- the areas where the vast majority of Syrians live. Indeed, the voices of Syrians like Areej, one of many people I spoke to inside Syria’s government-held areas for this report, present a testimony that is simply too inconvenient for Western media to consider
.

“I was with the demonstrations,” Areej told me when we met in Damascus. “At the beginning of the war it was for freedom. But if I could go back to four years ago, I would not have gone out to the demonstrations because I didn’t want the situation to become like this. We regret it.”


The insurgents renamed the center of the town “Slaughter Square,” publicly punishing people there for moral code violations like smoking and adultery. Areej complained, “The style of the armed groups is disgusting. Their beards are like 5 meters long. They think they are living like in Mohammed’s time. They are wrong. And anyway, we are in 2017. They think they are in 1014 Islamic State.”

Many of the armed groups Areej came across were made up of non-Syrian Salafi Jihadists who could not speak the local dialect. In many cases they couldn’t speak any Arabic at all. “There was a group from China, Kazakhstan, another from Pakistan, another with fighters from France,” she said, rolling her eyes. Indeed, there are thousands of Chinese foreign fighters who joined the jihad in Syria. Calling themselves the Turkistan Islamic Party, they helped spearhead the seizure of Areej’s village. But they weren’t alone.

Each street corner seemed to be controlled by a different faction. Every faction spray painted their name on the walls to demonstrate their claim over a street. She remembers on one wall where a rebel group inscribed the popular slogan, “Democracy is the religion of blasphemy


Areej noticed that much of the graffiti was scrawled by foreigners. “The groups that are governing the area my family is from wrote their names on the walls in bad Arabic,” Areej recalled, shaking her head in disdain. Her hometown was suddenly teeming with Frenchmen. “Syrian people are dying to reach France while people from France come here to kill Syrians,” she complained


Worst media coverage in modern history

The voices of Syrians like Areej simply do not fit within the accepted narrative that justifies the West’s geopolitical aims. And it is wholly out of line with the content that dominates the Qatari state outlet Al Jazeera, which has functioned as a 24/7 vehicle for the Syrian armed opposition. And so she and others like her have been ignored
.

The coverage of Syria by Western media contains little resemblance at all to the lived experiences described to me by the people I met when I visited the areas where most Syrians live in 2016.

Having watched for years as Syrian expatriates promoting regime change from abroad occupy the limelight, Syrians inside the country have developed a strong sense of resentment


The US media tends to avoid any factual analysis of the rebels, their goals or their extremist ideology. In doing so, they avoid some of the most crucial questions of the conflict: Who will succeed Assad if his government collapses? And what will happen to the two million Christians, the Shia minorities, and the masses of secular Syrians who have no place under the religiously exclusivist rule the Salafist insurgents have imposed on areas they control?


http://www.alternet.org/grayzone-project/ignored-western-media-syrians-describe-nightmare-armed-opposition-brought-them

Cheers
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Re: World Politics

19 May 2017 14:25

Trump was elected with the support of the U.S. military.


What does this mean? Like during the MayDay military parade, the 'powerful' generals and admirals are positioned on the proper sides and proper distance from Adolf?

No Such thing as 'official' military support for any candidate in the US. Each JCS member didn't go into a room and pledge loyalty of themselves or their service or any crap like that. Not like China..
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Re: World Politics

19 May 2017 15:14

Bustedknuckle wrote:
Trump was elected with the support of the U.S. military.


What does this mean? Like during the MayDay military parade, the 'powerful' generals and admirals are positioned on the proper sides and proper distance from Adolf?

No Such thing as 'official' military support for any candidate in the US. Each JCS member didn't go into a room and pledge loyalty of themselves or their service or any crap like that. Not like China..

What is the context of your quote? "Trump was elected with the support of the U.S. military."
You are correct that No official military support but if this was only trying to state that the majority of the military might have voted for copperhead then it could be something different than what you are complaining about.

Sometimes a little context might help. I tried to find a post here that has that in it but could not. Maybe I missed it.
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