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Re:

06 Jan 2018 14:42

macbindle wrote:Your main point was that Pakistan is reliant on the the US. You even said that the Pakistan military is armed "exclusively" by the US.

This is just nonsense.

I cited the F16 as the only real area of difficulty for the Pakistanis, but despite what you say they HAVE been buying kit from 3rd parties, notably Jordan and Turkey. Yes. Turkey.A. NATO. Member.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1103620/turkey-to-modernise-pakistans-f-16s/


If we had been having this conversation a couple of decades ago you would have been right, but since then Pakistan has been engaged in a policy of diversification precisely to avoid a dependence on the US. They've now achieved this, hence their confident response to US threats to stop aid.

Why are the US sh1tting their pants about this? Because there is a large strategic shift taking place in central Asia. The Pakistan-US alliance was all about trying to keep the Russians out of central asia. Now Pakistan and Russia are forming close ties after decades of hostility. A couple of months ago the Pak Chief of Staff went to Moscow. Soon as he got back Mattis went to Islamabad in a panic. The truth is the US needs Pakistan more than Pakistan needs the US. Behind the scenes and out of the US news channels the war in Afghanistan is being wrapped up by the Chinese and the Russians (diplomatically, not militarily).

The sands are shifting.


Indeed..the more things change, the more they stay the same.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2017/06/22/growing-the-u-s-india-economic-relationship-the-only-way-forward/

Just keep donnie out of it..he doesn't know where India is anyway(or pakistan for that matter)..
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Re: Re:

06 Jan 2018 15:10

Bustedknuckle wrote:
Indeed..the more things change, the more they stay the same.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2017/06/22/growing-the-u-s-india-economic-relationship-the-only-way-forward/

Just keep donnie out of it..he doesn't know where India is anyway(or pakistan for that matter)..


Oh for ****'s sake. Google "Trump Tower Mumbai"

There's two other Indian properties as well, and being developed in the middle of his presidency, which is kind of an ethics concern.

Why do you think Trump's been trying to pull India into these international Asian groups they previously weren't part of? Not just for his business interests, but hey, nice little by-product.
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Re: Re:

06 Jan 2018 15:31

Beech Mtn wrote:
Bustedknuckle wrote:
Indeed..the more things change, the more they stay the same.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2017/06/22/growing-the-u-s-india-economic-relationship-the-only-way-forward/

Just keep donnie out of it..he doesn't know where India is anyway(or pakistan for that matter)..


Oh for ****'s sake. Google "Trump Tower Mumbai"

There's two other Indian properties as well, and being developed in the middle of his presidency, which is kind of an ethics concern.

Why do you think Trump's been trying to pull India into these international Asian groups they previously weren't part of? Not just for his business interests, but hey, nice little by-product.


You are assuming donnie knows where it is..a stretch, even if it is one of his 'properties'. Besides, donnie isn't doing anything..he's a figure head, a puppet, a believer of the last thing he hears..3 grade attention span with vocabulary to match.
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09 Jan 2018 09:21

Bibi & Trump in some weird universal connection (& both with stupid sons!)

Benjamin Netanyahu’s son may have gotten him in trouble thanks to a drunken rant
https://www.salon.com/2018/01/08/benjamin-netanyahus-son-may-have-gotten-him-in-trouble-thanks-to-a-drunken-rant/

and for all the gossipy details https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5068118,00.html
Sound familiar?
Your witch-hunt has now reached an all-time unprecedented low ...

Cease and desist?
The Netanyahu family attorney, Yossi Cohen, sent an urgent letter Monday to the Israel Television News Company demanding they withhold the recording's contents from the public.
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09 Jan 2018 10:24

Sarah Huckabee-Sanders could lose her job soon :D

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42616817
Thailand's prime minister has taken a novel approach to avoiding questions at a news conference, by leaving a cardboard cutout to do the job.

Prayuth Chan-ocha briefly spoke to an audience outside Government House in Bangkok, before the life-sized replica was brought out.

"If you want to ask any questions on politics or conflict, ask this guy," Mr Prayuth said, then walked away waving.

Image
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15 Jan 2018 13:11

aphronesis
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Re:

22 Jan 2018 13:48


That article left out an awful lot of information. The Turkish response is due to the US stating that they will set up a 10-20 thousand strong Kurdish militia on Trukey's border. Considering that Turkey has a Kurdish "problem" complete with terrorist attacks, this is kind of like France setting up a fully armed and trained al Qaeda militia in Mexico along the border with Texas. There was no way Turkey couldn't respond. US motives for doing this? They still want to Balkanize Syria, even though the war is pretty much over. And keep their bases inside Syria.

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Re: Re:

22 Jan 2018 14:11

ScienceIsCool wrote:

That article left out an awful lot of information. The Turkish response is due to the US stating that they will set up a 10-20 thousand strong Kurdish militia on Trukey's border. Considering that Turkey has a Kurdish "problem" complete with terrorist attacks, this is kind of like France setting up a fully armed and trained al Qaeda militia in Mexico along the border with Texas. There was no way Turkey couldn't respond. US motives for doing this? They still want to Balkanize Syria, even though the war is pretty much over. And keep their bases inside Syria.

John Swanson


No, it isn't. It really, really isn't. The Kurds aren't some random grouping of people the US has decided to fund. They haven't been positioned on the Turkey-Syria and Turkey-Iraq border by some outside force attempting to influence the region.
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Re: Re:

22 Jan 2018 14:26

ScienceIsCool wrote:

That article left out an awful lot of information. The Turkish response is due to the US stating that they will set up a 10-20 thousand strong Kurdish militia on Trukey's border. Considering that Turkey has a Kurdish "problem" complete with terrorist attacks, this is kind of like France setting up a fully armed and trained al Qaeda militia in Mexico along the border with Texas. There was no way Turkey couldn't respond. US motives for doing this? They still want to Balkanize Syria, even though the war is pretty much over. And keep their bases inside Syria.

John Swanson


Did you even read the article?
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22 Jan 2018 14:39

to appreciate the ACTUAL motives behind the turkish incursion into syria and to try to sort out the facts from propoganda, the LAST thing an interested observer needs to do is ...to read the western msm :rolleyes:

in brief, leaving out the important yet too inflated and emotional labels of who's a terrorist among the kurds, the gist of the matter is in a fast declining ability of the united states to influence both its official allies and adversaries.

i spent some time yesterday watching the trt and reading the 2 expert portals. it all started, as pointed above, when the us announced the formation of the kurdish border units.

per se, it is not a big deal b/c the kurds ALREADY are patrolling their side of the sysrian border. the spark was generated when the us failed to consult turkey on its intentions. as with the pakistan aid withdrawal, the jerusalem fiasko and many more latest foreign policy decisions, the new twist in the us approach - undoubtedly its trumponian - 'you do what i tell you or else'. it is indeed very stupid given how little was achieved by the ultimatums and the threats of sanctions to russia, china, pakistan, palestine, north korea, iran and now turkey...

long story short, the one-sided, unilateral us decision on the new kurdish policy infuriated erdogan, a well known and touchy authoritarian. there was only one state he was seeking an aproval from for his invasion, b/c they displaced the us influence in the hood - russia. erdogan dispatched to moscow his chief of staff and the military intelligence chief. the permission was obtained and the invasion of afrin was initiated within hours.

curiously, facing the turkish fury and the resoluteness to act regardless of what the us thinks, yesterday mattis started backpedaling: 'turkey has some legitimate security concerns, but...'.

it remains to be seen what the us reaction will be when the turks will move, as they already told everyone, into the kurdish area of manbij where the bulk of us troops and influence is..

as long as russia backs turkey, erdogan has little to fear from either the us, the eu or even the united nations. such is the new balance of local power the us is stubbornly refusing to see.

Turkey upends US Syria strategy with attack on YPG


Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2018/01/turkey-upend-us-syria-strategy-attack-ypg-aleppo.html#ixzz54vNbGEDN
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22 Jan 2018 14:52

The point of reading western msm is to know what it’s saying. It’s called discourse. My question had to do with the fact that John’s “missing information” was in fact supplied in the last paragraphs of the article.

Some people trained in history are able to read berween the lines that way.

waning us influence and overuse of the terrorist label are givens and don’t require self congratulatory use of news feeds in several languages. but please, more self important posts of the obvious.
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Re:

22 Jan 2018 15:04

aphronesis wrote:The point of reading western msm is to know what it’s saying. It’s called discourse. My question had to do with the fact that John’s “missing information” was in fact supplied in the last paragraphs of the article.

Some people trained in history are able to read berween the lines that way.

waning us influence and overuse of the terrorist label are givens and don’t require self congratulatory use of news feeds in several languages. but please, more self important posts of the obvious.

Yeah. Putting the most important information in the last paragraphs is a well known tactic. Whatever. Here's a much better article on the subject: http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/01/syria-turks-attack-afrin-us-strategy-fails-kurds-again-chose-the-losing-side-.html#more

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22 Jan 2018 15:05

i dont read your pompous one-liners any longer and thus your post had zero influence on what i posted after john's.
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Re: Re:

22 Jan 2018 15:07

King Boonen wrote:
ScienceIsCool wrote:

That article left out an awful lot of information. The Turkish response is due to the US stating that they will set up a 10-20 thousand strong Kurdish militia on Trukey's border. Considering that Turkey has a Kurdish "problem" complete with terrorist attacks, this is kind of like France setting up a fully armed and trained al Qaeda militia in Mexico along the border with Texas. There was no way Turkey couldn't respond. US motives for doing this? They still want to Balkanize Syria, even though the war is pretty much over. And keep their bases inside Syria.

John Swanson


No, it isn't. It really, really isn't. The Kurds aren't some random grouping of people the US has decided to fund. They haven't been positioned on the Turkey-Syria and Turkey-Iraq border by some outside force attempting to influence the region.

Okay, fine. Sinaloa cartel then.

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Re:

22 Jan 2018 15:09

python wrote:i dont read your pompous one-liners any longer and thus your post had zero influence on what i posted after john's.


The fact that as usual you weighed in to post after me with a typically self-aggrandizing and ponderous correction would give the lie there. The content once you get over yourself is as always, I’m sure, helpful to some.
Last edited by aphronesis on 22 Jan 2018 15:11, edited 1 time in total.
aphronesis
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Re: Re:

22 Jan 2018 15:10

ScienceIsCool wrote:
aphronesis wrote:The point of reading western msm is to know what it’s saying. It’s called discourse. My question had to do with the fact that John’s “missing information” was in fact supplied in the last paragraphs of the article.

Some people trained in history are able to read berween the lines that way.

waning us influence and overuse of the terrorist label are givens and don’t require self congratulatory use of news feeds in several languages. but please, more self important posts of the obvious.

Yeah. Putting the most important information in the last paragraphs is a well known tactic. Whatever. Here's a much better article on the subject: http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/01/syria-turks-attack-afrin-us-strategy-fails-kurds-again-chose-the-losing-side-.html#more

John Swanson


thanks.

yes, facts come after people have lost interest and switched off.
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Re: Re:

22 Jan 2018 15:48

ScienceIsCool wrote:
King Boonen wrote:
ScienceIsCool wrote:

That article left out an awful lot of information. The Turkish response is due to the US stating that they will set up a 10-20 thousand strong Kurdish militia on Trukey's border. Considering that Turkey has a Kurdish "problem" complete with terrorist attacks, this is kind of like France setting up a fully armed and trained al Qaeda militia in Mexico along the border with Texas. There was no way Turkey couldn't respond. US motives for doing this? They still want to Balkanize Syria, even though the war is pretty much over. And keep their bases inside Syria.

John Swanson


No, it isn't. It really, really isn't. The Kurds aren't some random grouping of people the US has decided to fund. They haven't been positioned on the Turkey-Syria and Turkey-Iraq border by some outside force attempting to influence the region.

Okay, fine. Sinaloa cartel then.

John Swanson


Ah yes, the Sinaloa cartel, that ethnic group that closely mimics the history of the Kurds, particularly where they have been persistently persecuted against since the fall of the Ottoman empire by several governments wishing to suppress their identity and hopes for an independent state, had their language declared illegal, been arrested for speaking it in public, been the victims of several massacres and massive displacement, all under the extremely complex banner of Turkification in Turkey and Ba'athism in Iraq and Syria.

Yes, that sounds exactly like an international drug cartel that originates from a Mexican state that doesn't even border another nation.
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22 Jan 2018 16:27

Frankly, the whole world does not hang on the words of the US. The rest of the world have their own interests and the Turkish attack on the Kurds has been on the cards for years. The Kurds have been consolidating their position during the multi-nation efforts to push out ISIS. At one point, people were not only talking about whether it was time to discuss the issue of a Kurdish state, but also declaring it as a fact on the ground. Turkey would never accept this, and once the fight with IS was concluded it was always going to be time for the Kurds and the Turks to face off.
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Re:

22 Jan 2018 16:53

macbindle wrote:Frankly, the whole world does not hang on the words of the US. The rest of the world have their own interests and the Turkish attack on the Kurds has been on the cards for years. The Kurds have been consolidating their position during the multi-nation efforts to push out ISIS. At one point, people were not only talking about whether it was time to discuss the issue of a Kurdish state, but also declaring it as a fact on the ground. Turkey would never accept this, and once the fight with IS was concluded it was always going to be time for the Kurds and the Turks to face off.


The Kurdistan Regional Government of the Iraqi Kurdistan region was established in 1992 and ratified in the most recent Iraqi constitution in 2005. While technically semi-autonomous they are very independent and have been pushing for nation status for much longer, along with incorporating areas of Turkey and Syria (Iranian Kurds seem apathetic towards this at best). This has long proceeded the fight against ISIL, which the Kurds were a major player in and we not really consolidating their position.
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