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World Politics

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02 May 2018 13:04

King Bonnan: "Do I really have to explain how the Israeli government is using the Giro for political point-scoring and the impact this could have on the race? It seems really, really obvious to be honest."

Its hard to tell how much truth there is, but my understanding is that this idea was the brainchild of a Canadian/Israeli Billionaire, who pitched it to Vegni, and then to Netanyahu. I read that Netanyahu put up about $12 MIL for three stages. Maybe this is their way to get more Europeans to come for vacation, but the Giro isn't the Olympics or World Cup in terms of political capitol. Maybe its baby steps and the Giro is the first step.
jmdirt
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02 May 2018 14:09

It's about legitimising Israel. Have a major Euro sporting event there...directs attention away from Israeli snipers blowing away unarmed people protesting against the ethnic cleansing that has taken.place and continues so to do.
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Re:

02 May 2018 14:14

jmdirt wrote:King Bonnan: "Do I really have to explain how the Israeli government is using the Giro for political point-scoring and the impact this could have on the race? It seems really, really obvious to be honest."

Its hard to tell how much truth there is, but my understanding is that this idea was the brainchild of a Canadian/Israeli Billionaire, who pitched it to Vegni, and then to Netanyahu. I read that Netanyahu put up about $12 MIL for three stages. Maybe this is their way to get more Europeans to come for vacation, but the Giro isn't the Olympics or World Cup in terms of political capitol. Maybe its baby steps and the Giro is the first step.


That's $12 million versus $140 billion (Qatar estimated spend, I know that's huge compared to SA but I would guess Israel hosting a world cup would lean more towards the Qatar spend?) so it's fairly clear that the level is different. It is still about legitimising Israel as a state and legitimising the current government and their actions.
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02 May 2018 15:07

aphronesis
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02 May 2018 16:37

Yes. It's just all a bit too obvious, and the unveiling of shelves of files looked like a cheap stunt.

I can't help feeling that the UK Labour party 'anti-semitism' row is linked in to this. A year or two ago there was this...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/07/israeli-diplomat-shai-masot-caught-on-camera-plotting-to-take-down-uk-mps

It feels like a big plan all coming together...sink any hopes of peace, declare Jerusalem as capital and thereby make the annexation of the West bank permanent, kill off any political opposition by fair means or foul conflating anti-apartheidism with anti-semitism, fence in the Palestinians on a **** bit of land nobody wants and shoot them dead if they have the temerity to protest with the aim of destroying their hope and spirit.
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02 May 2018 17:31

I disagree with those who say that the Giro will distract from what is occurring in Israel. Quite the opposite. Because of the discussion yesterday and today, I have learned things that I din't know before, so clearly this has brought attention to what is happening in that region.
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03 May 2018 05:51

Sylvan Adams - the man behind Israel Cycling Academy & bringing the Giro to Israel -
https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Sports/Israels-cycling-godfather-climbs-mountains-553073
“Unlike a soccer match or a basketball game, which take place inside a stadium, cycling takes places outdoors. So for three days, with 16 hours of TV coverage, starting in Jerusalem, our beautiful and important national capital, and then going from Acre in the north all the way down to Eilat they will literally see all the country.”

Adams wants the world to not only see Israel’s scenery, but also show it what he calls normal Israel.

“We will be able to show a billion people without the filter of the traditional media what Israel is really all about,” he explained. “Also to show off that we are democratic and open and pluralistic and free and most importantly that we are safe.”
...
“This truly is a Zionist project,” he stated. “Not just a cycling team, and that is why the name of the country is in the name of the team.
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Re:

03 May 2018 12:37

Robert5091 wrote:Sylvan Adams - the man behind Israel Cycling Academy & bringing the Giro to Israel -
https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Sports/Israels-cycling-godfather-climbs-mountains-553073
“Unlike a soccer match or a basketball game, which take place inside a stadium, cycling takes places outdoors. So for three days, with 16 hours of TV coverage, starting in Jerusalem, our beautiful and important national capital, and then going from Acre in the north all the way down to Eilat they will literally see all the country.”

Adams wants the world to not only see Israel’s scenery, but also show it what he calls normal Israel.

“We will be able to show a billion people without the filter of the traditional media what Israel is really all about,” he explained. “Also to show off that we are democratic and open and pluralistic and free and most importantly that we are safe.”
...
“This truly is a Zionist project,” he stated. “Not just a cycling team, and that is why the name of the country is in the name of the team.

Adams. That was the Canadian/Israeli billionaire's name that I couldn't think of.
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03 May 2018 18:51

read several posts above and have this to say...not being the english root speaker, nor even as a 2nd language i dont find 'legitimizing israel' a proper expression. i'd use words like promote, prop etc.

israel is both perfectly legitimate and legal due the un resolution and the historical events leading to the creation of the state. and i'm the one who will not get tired of exposing the zionists confusing antisemitism with legitimate criticism of their abuse and persecution of the palestinians..just saying.
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Re:

03 May 2018 19:03

python wrote:read several posts above and have this to say...not being the english root speaker, nor even as a 2nd language i dont find 'legitimizing israel' a proper expression. i'd use words like promote, prop etc.

israel is both perfectly legitimate and legal due the un resolution and the historical events leading to the creation of the state. and i'm the one who will not get tired of exposing the zionists confusing antisemitism with legitimate criticism of their abuse and persecution of the palestinians..just saying.


I am a native speaker of English, and a reasonably well-educated one, so I'm not particularly interested in taking English lessons from you...just saying.

"Israel" is far from legitimate. Yes, it may have all but about 30 nations recognising it as a state, but it is 'illegitimately' occupying the West Bank, and blockading the Gaza strip.Crucially, It is currently in the process of annexing one of these occupied territories. Legitimate? No. Overlooked by the West? What do you think.
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03 May 2018 19:39

if you took it as a lecture, you certainly have problems with the skin thickness since the statement formulated intentionally impersonally. i think you also confuse illegitimate israeli actions with its legitimate existence.

i find myself rarely posting anything pro-israel or pro-zi0nist, but i dont have the confusion you seem under. it is a legitimate state and the politics with accepting the fact or not is just that - politics.
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03 May 2018 22:28

Disgusting that this beautiful race has been scarred by this modern day apartheid regime.

It leaves a very, very sour taste. Anyway, Dennis will win, Pinot will be the surprise package.
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Re: World Politics

05 May 2018 09:35

To be honest, after a world championship in Qatar, world tour races in China and big cycling teams funded by Kazakhstan, Bahrain and UAE, I find it difficult to get riled up over the political implications of the Giro starting in Israel.

When the peloton leaves Israel, we still have Astana, Bahrain and UAE serving as propaganda tools for countries which really aren't any better than Israel.
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05 May 2018 12:45

I view Israel as worse than the UAE, Bahrain and Kazakhstan.

I tried to watch the race today, but I feel dirty for doing so. So I'm keeping myself away away from the telly until they leave Israel.
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Re:

05 May 2018 13:50

ToreBear wrote:I view Israel as worse than the UAE, Bahrain and Kazakhstan.

I tried to watch the race today, but I feel dirty for doing so. So I'm keeping myself away away from the telly until they leave Israel.


Ah yes, UAE, where corporeal punishment and even stoning to death are legal punishments for things such as blasphemy, apostasy, adultery, extra marital sex, homosexuality, etc. Where migrant workers are exploited almost to the point of slavery. Where political dissidents get tortured and disappear. Where religious minorities are persecution (e.g. 4000 Shi'a muslims got deported in recent years). UAE, which is involved in fighting a sectarian civil war in Yemen.

Maybe think about all of that in a couple of days when you see Aru flying up the Zoncolan, with the beautiful UAE flag on his jersey. Don't feel dirty for watching that?
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Re: Re:

05 May 2018 14:02

Maaaaaaaarten wrote:
ToreBear wrote:I view Israel as worse than the UAE, Bahrain and Kazakhstan.

I tried to watch the race today, but I feel dirty for doing so. So I'm keeping myself away away from the telly until they leave Israel.


Ah yes, UAE, where corporeal punishment and even stoning to death are legal punishments for things such as blasphemy, apostasy, adultery, extra marital sex, homosexuality, etc. Where migrant workers are exploited almost to the point of slavery. Where political dissidents get tortured and disappear. Where religious minorities are persecution (e.g. 4000 Shi'a muslims got deported in recent years). UAE, which is involved in fighting a sectarian civil war in Yemen.

Maybe think about all of that in a couple of days when you see Aru flying up the Zoncolan, with the beautiful UAE flag on his jersey. Don't feel dirty for watching that?


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05 May 2018 15:21

Israel is just one of many states that do horrific things.
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Re: Re:

05 May 2018 15:21

Maaaaaaaarten wrote:
ToreBear wrote:I view Israel as worse than the UAE, Bahrain and Kazakhstan.

I tried to watch the race today, but I feel dirty for doing so. So I'm keeping myself away away from the telly until they leave Israel.


Ah yes, UAE, where corporeal punishment and even stoning to death are legal punishments for things such as blasphemy, apostasy, adultery, extra marital sex, homosexuality, etc. Where migrant workers are exploited almost to the point of slavery. Where political dissidents get tortured and disappear. Where religious minorities are persecution (e.g. 4000 Shi'a muslims got deported in recent years). UAE, which is involved in fighting a sectarian civil war in Yemen.

Maybe think about all of that in a couple of days when you see Aru flying up the Zoncolan, with the beautiful UAE flag on his jersey. Don't feel dirty for watching that?


Most of these laws are usually commuted by the government. But they have not been occupying and colonizing other peoples land since 1967. They also don't have one legal standard for a certain ethnic group and another for an other ethnic group.

And they also don't claim to be democracies.
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05 May 2018 15:30

I've often wondered about Israel, and how it gets away with being a racist state, and how the 'right to return' argument doesn't seem to apply to Palestinians.

Maybe it only applies to people who can't name their ancestors from 6000 years ago.
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Re:

05 May 2018 15:55

ToreBear wrote:Most of these laws are usually commuted by the government. But they have not been occupying and colonizing other peoples land since 1967. They also don't have one legal standard for a certain ethnic group and another for an other ethnic group.

And they also don't claim to be democracies.


What? South Asian migrant workers are systematically exploited almost to the point of slavery because the normal UAE labor protection laws don't apply to them. UAE does very much discriminate in their law between different ethnic groups. And then we're not even talking about discrimination of religious minorities and women.

Maybe no colony, but what the Gulf states (including UAE) are currently doing in Yemen isn't much better, as far as I'm concerned.

macbindle wrote:I've often wondered about Israel, and how it gets away with being a racist state, ( ... )


Probably the same reason why the Bahrain an UAE can get away with treating migrant workers as slaves and violently oppressing religious minorities, women and homosexuals.

Just be buddies with the US and you can do whatever you want. It works for Israel and it works just as well for the Gulf states.
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