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The 2016 CQ Ranking Manager Thread

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05 Nov 2016 12:14

I agree. I don't think skidmark had an unfair advantage. Yes, he may have had some insight into the popular picks but let's not pretend all popular picks turn out to be good ones and as MADRAZO writes, if you've done enough research, you won't miss an obvious pick. In 2012, when I first participated, I put a team together relatively late, and of course I missed several very popular, very good picks. It was a learning experience and since then I put together a longlist during the season which I go through for my team for the following year, plus I go through pretty much the entire cqranking database several times. I'm sure many if not all of the serious CQ game players do the same. Since 2012, I haven't missed a single popular rider except when I knowingly and willingly ignored and/or omitted that rider.
To win, you have to have the perfect mix of popular picks and some rarer ones. Even with all the cycling knowledge in the world, you aren't guaranteed a winning team. You have to take some gambles and have a fair share of luck. Skidmark had the best team this year, simply. All credit to him :)
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on the road
you don't need to say this stuff
we saw you on the road
you blessed us with 9 great shows
let's not argue the toss about the official count
you are much bigger than that
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User avatar LaFlorecita
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Re: Re:

06 Nov 2016 23:08

Jancouver wrote:
Kazistuta wrote:And if you had just an inch of objectivity and CQ game history knowledge,you would know your perception is just wrong.

Thanks for organizing and congratz on the win,Skidmark. We'll meet again next year :-)


As I said, I'm very grateful for his work, running the game and reports and I'm fully aware of his past results.

As I said, just in my own eyes, I have to put a big question mark next to his name as he has access to all the teams that are being submitted and that puts a big shadow over his result.

I know that it is not easy to pick your team even if you have an access to all the other teams, but you have to agree that if would submit his team prior to receiving all the other teams, his result would be even more impressive.


I have to put a big question mark about what kind of person you are Jancouver - JUST MY HONEST OPINION

Can't you just accept that its an incredible achievement to win this game? To do so while also putting in the effort to make it all happen is all the more impressive.

Why do you deserve to enjoy playing this game while being so insulting to person doing the work?
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07 Nov 2016 15:01

Big thanks to Skidmark and unqualified congratulations upon a deserved victory.
Although I was the class clown this year... my first attempt, a late entry and missing obvious tactics (ie. picking riders that were injured last year - Kittel especially), I'm actually happy.
I tried to find cheap, upcoming riders and, actually, was reasonably successful on that score. Most did really well and made a good profit. My big stinkers were the expensive guys.
I reckon I might do a fair bit better next year, with the experience under my belt.
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Re: Re:

07 Nov 2016 15:21

mc_mountain wrote:
Jancouver wrote:
Kazistuta wrote:And if you had just an inch of objectivity and CQ game history knowledge,you would know your perception is just wrong.

Thanks for organizing and congratz on the win,Skidmark. We'll meet again next year :-)


As I said, I'm very grateful for his work, running the game and reports and I'm fully aware of his past results.

As I said, just in my own eyes, I have to put a big question mark next to his name as he has access to all the teams that are being submitted and that puts a big shadow over his result.

I know that it is not easy to pick your team even if you have an access to all the other teams, but you have to agree that if would submit his team prior to receiving all the other teams, his result would be even more impressive.


I have to put a big question mark about what kind of person you are Jancouver - JUST MY HONEST OPINION

Can't you just accept that its an incredible achievement to win this game? To do so while also putting in the effort to make it all happen is all the more impressive.

Why do you deserve to enjoy playing this game while being so insulting to person doing the work?


Not being insulting at all. As I said, I do appreciate all his work and energy and he proved his skills already in the past.

It's my personal opinion, same as somebody submitting a team past the deadline once all the other teams were published. You include them and just put a small asterisk next to their name. This is somewhat similar in my eyes.

Just forget it, he won the game and I'm happy for him. Only he knows if he got any kind of advantage from seeing all the other teams. :eek:
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17 Nov 2016 23:09

Kind of quiet around here lately, I hope Skid is not taking my comments too seriously :confused:
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17 Nov 2016 23:57

Obviously I can't speak for them but wouldn't think so. It always pretty much drops right off until the next years thread gets created
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Re: The 2016 CQ Ranking Manager Thread

18 Nov 2016 01:46

Sorry guys, some personal stuff came up and I kind of checked out for a bit. Not too crazy serious - if it were the middle of the summer in the game I would've checked back in, but it was enough to take me away for a bit.

I'll be providing the final update soon. I don't think anyone has any riders in the Tour of Fuzhou, but might as well wait to make the final update (I know a few people scored in Taihu Lake) and I can just have a wrap up post.

And hey, it looks like I won the game again! That is crazy to me. I recognize that it's a weird dynamic for me to be organizing the game and giving these updates that I'm on top of the standings, so I've been kind of hands off about talking about it, but I am definitely pretty amazed and happy that things turned out so well.

I don't mind at all if y'all wanna talk about my role as an organizer. First, we're a bunch of strangers on the internet, so nobody knows anything about anyone else. Second, this game is just for pride anyway, and I feel an immense amount of pride for having done so well in it so consistently, amongst a huge group of intelligent and avid cycling fans. I know I did it without seeking, or gaining, an unfair advantage, and really beyond that, I'm not bothered if anyone thinks otherwise, since I know how I feel about my own integrity and that's really what matters.

But in the interest of transparency, I've mentioned this in passing in years past, but here is the process for me submitting my team:

- when I took over the game, I said on the thread that I'd love to take over, but I obsess about this game so I wanted to have some flexibility, ie. not have to submit my final, complete team a month in advance. So I submitted a core of about half a team of confirmed 'no brainer' riders, and maybe 25 other shortlisted riders to fill out the other spots, who I then sent to one of the early teams to submit (the first year it was just some guy, this year it was mc_mountain, can't remember off the top of my head who it was in between). I finalized my team for the deadline.

- last year I got pretty busy and didn't do a ton of work on my team and was travelling in December. When I started receiving teams and it came up in the thread, I realized it was getting late and sent my near-final team to mc before looking at any teams, even though I had about ten submissions at the time. I knew I hadn't looked at any teams, but I also realize it's important to be organized and have good optics about stuff like that, so I take it seriously and have my team pretty together already - will definitely have a pretty close to finalized team by the time the thread goes up in early December.

- I love entering the teams on the spreadsheet, but honestly, to me it's just data. Whatever rider people are submitting, I've already gone through my own thought process about that rider, and so I don't even pick up on the name, other than vaguely thinking that 'oh this rider's name is coming up alot'. So I suppose that could have a subconscious effect on the last few decisions I make, but I really don't think so. After all, I won this game in 2012 and had the second-most popular team, and that was two years before I started processing the info. So it's not like I try to find out who is popular and then put them on my team, I'm just good at identifying riders that lots of people agree are going to do well. Like someone said upthread, half the submissions are in the last day so there really isn't practically time to take in who is popular and all that, even if I wanted to use that info for nefarious purposes.

- there was one time in my second year organizing that I felt some concern that I had added a rider that I hadn't maybe been thinking about before because their name came up in a few submissions. I thought I had my own process around that rider, but it made me think about that dynamic. That was the only time I'd ever thought I might have been influenced by running this game; that rider was Andrea Zordan, who didn't score a single CQ point since then. So if it was the case that I was influenced in that pick, it certainly didn't help me. Anyway, even though I feel like i picked that rider for my own reasons, I felt uncomfortable about that dynamic and want to stay well away from it; and I am definitely not going to add any riders that aren't already on my shortlist right now (unless, you know, Andy Schleck or Matt Goss come out of retirement suddenly).

In short, I get how as someone who is really into this game, if you didn't know me you might think it logical that I'd seek any marginal advantage. But what I really think is that it'd be pretty stupid and petty to seek those advantages to win a game amongst strangers on the internet for pride. Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty proud to do well in this game as I said above, but I feel there are much more substantial routes to fulfillment than seeking unfair advantages in a fun fantasy sports game.

So anyway, all this is to say - I really like this game, it's fun to organize, I certainly know that I'd never be interested in seeking an unfair advantage, and there's no way to prove that if you don't believe me, so I'm cool if whoever has whatever opinion on it. No bigs, gimme an asterisk in your unofficial standings, whatever you wanna do. Happy to keep going on this game, and I'll do my best to be diligent about being transparent about my own process in picking a team.

Thanks for playing, everyone!
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Re: The 2016 CQ Ranking Manager Thread

18 Nov 2016 16:13

Well said, thankyou for your effort and congrats on the win Skidmark
Formally *Falze* but not sure what happened to that account

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19 Nov 2016 20:06

Thank you for all the organising, skidmark, and many congrats.

This is one of the best games on the internet and it correctly rewards good research. Including the most riders does not automatically lead to winning - it is finding the hidden gems that makes the difference at the top of the leaderboard.

No question at all about your integrity as far as I'm concerned. Pressure on all of us next year to raise our game to compete! :)
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20 Nov 2016 01:10

Well, that was rather anonymous year for my team: two mentions in the top movers' list and Top 50 overall. But I should not be too surprised with result if I had as many as three riders featured in the CN article titled "Seven transfer flops of 2016" :D
PeterB wrote:TJ accumulated 500 or more points before the start of the TDF in each of the previous three years. Which is only slightly below his cost this year.

Nevertheless, he is in so many teams that he is almost unimportant for the game. I wonder who the riders are that teams have instead if they don't have him. It's probably diversity of various alternative ways of spending those points. But I do not think there is much better and at the same time safer way of spending your budget than him. You spent those money on Bonifazio, so it is TJ against Bonifazio for you! We can look back at the year-end which one was better pick ;)

Jancouver wrote:TJ vs Bonifazio, I like it!

@Jancouver: our TJ vs Bonifazio contest did not work out as well as we imagined, did it. Although TJ duly scored over 500 points before the TDF so he was on track to be a good pick, but what happened afterwards, is a mystery. Still, a bit better pick than Bonifazio, although overall, your team was a mile ahead of mine...

Many thanks to skidmark and all other helpers throughout the year and looking forward to the next year's edition!
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Re: Re:

20 Nov 2016 12:24

Congratulations to skidmark and a big thank you for putting up this game and to everyone who contributed, especially with updates.

I do not think skidmark gained any advantage by knowing the teams before the deadline. He showed over the years that he's constantly one of the best players in every edition, even before being responsible for the game. But it's nice to read that he doesn't care if others mark his performances with an asterix.

Squire wrote:
Tigerion wrote:
Netserk wrote:There were 11 riders on at least half of all teams. While many of them were good picks, several weren't, so it isn't really the be-all and end-all to have the most popular riders (though skidmark did have them all).


The examples were the ones I remember people over the years being upset about.
Gerrans 2014: 511 >> 1736
Ewan 2015: 95 >> 716
Porte: 2015: 415 >> 1359
Gavaria 2016: 151 >> 833
Boonen 2014: 139 - 783

Partially the suggestion was driven by perceived impact at the start of the game, with people losing interest quickly.
I'm not 100% locked on to the idea, just a thought as it can be annoying when you realise. It was only Gavaria in that list which I missed and given there is a number of riders who only just made the short list cut who I would have dropped


Having such a substitute rule will take away more from the game than it adds to it. Those who are thorough enough to find all the obvious picks deserve to be rewarded. It could also go both ways. For every Kittel and Gaviria there's an Andy Schleck, Pellizotti or Goss.

And you can argue that those who lose interest because of missing an obvious pick are the ones likely to lose interest anyway. Besides, it's perfectly okay and understandable that not everyone follows the game through the season, although more discussion would obviously make it more fun. Don't think your proposed bail-out card will help much though.

I also have some feedback I want to share. In the beginning of the year, I wrote this:

Squire wrote:So there will be a KoM competition this year?

In my view such a competition is maybe a bit unnecessary. The leaderboard for such a competition will inevitably be the same as the Green Jersey competition, minus the teams that are doing well overall. I don't think it will create more interest from players who don't already have something to cheer about. I'd wager that, after a few months, the top ten will be quite exactly like the green jersey, with the exception of, say, the top 20-30 teams in the overall.

I think the updates are large enough already. I think adding in a few funfacts and other such statistics (if they're apparent) will be a better way to make the updates even more interesting, although they're quite fine as they are. I'm very much in your camp regarding keeping the simplicity of the game intact. If there is a wish for an additional minor competition, maybe a "Best newcomer" would be better. Such a ranking doesn't necessarily have to be updated every week, to save space and work.

Just my 2c. :)


By and large, I think my prediction was correct. The KoM competition being so similar to the points one dilutes both competitions, in my opinion. I suggest keeping only the points competition next year. If someone decides to actually aim for a sub-competition, the strategy one would have to employ would be the same for both, which kind of underscores my point.


I second squires thoughts. I do not think a substitute rule would make this game more interesting, it's good as it is. Even though I did contribute to the discussion (as I didn't have reasons to cheer about) I still closely followed the game. Also the more riders are in all the teams the less enjoyable it is to cheer for that rider as he doesn't have an impact in the game.

The only competition I didn't follow at all was the KOM one for the reasons squire stated. I too think a white jersey competition could be interesting.

That said, I did enjoy the game and got motivated to do better next year (which shouldn't be too difficult).
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22 Nov 2016 17:00

I want to echo all the appreciation for your work, skidmark. And congratulations of course! Very well deserved.

On another note, I'm already locked in on 18 riders for next year's game :cool:
User avatar Hugo Koblet
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Re:

22 Nov 2016 18:08

Hugo Koblet wrote:I want to echo all the appreciation for your work, skidmark. And congratulations of course! Very well deserved.

On another note, I'm already locked in on 18 riders for next year's game :cool:



I have exactly 0 locked in for next years game. Would that explain why I do so poorly? :)
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22 Nov 2016 19:18

Thank you Skidmark, for all the work you put in this game! And congratulations, of course.
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22 Nov 2016 19:50

Who do you guys think will be the better pick next year of Valverde and Contador? I'm leaning towards Valverde, but it depends on his program.
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22 Nov 2016 19:54

Thanks and congratulations: the effort did not lead to the success, but is suitably rewarded by it.
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Re:

30 Nov 2016 08:42

Netserk wrote:Who do you guys think will be the better pick next year of Valverde and Contador? I'm leaning towards Valverde, but it depends on his program.

None of them - there is no big hope they will improve significantly next year. Consider younger riders...
PS: I have already a draft for the next year with 20 riders (circa 5800 points), none of them is more then 30 years old. However the rest of the team will be hard to pick, I might choose some "jokers" who seem to decline.
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30 Nov 2016 16:33

I actually find it very hard to create a team for next year as well. I have roughly 20 riders I'm pretty certain will make the cut (although one in particular I'm torn on).
User avatar Hugo Koblet
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30 Nov 2016 18:53

Good to hear that I'm not the only one who is psyched up for 2017. I have tried to create a shortlist of riders I need to have in my team for next year. So far I have found 54... :o
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02 Dec 2016 20:06

Trofimov not suspended but two results removed--will his 2016 score no longer count as his baseline for next year?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/trofimov-one-of-four-sanctioned-but-not-suspended-for-meldonium-positives-news-shorts/
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