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Race Design Challenge II

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Re: Race Design Challenge II

21 Dec 2016 22:02

Gigs_98 wrote:Guys, I don't know what to do. My last stage is so incredibly similar to Brullnux penultimate stage, that it basically looks like a copy of it. I'm really unsure what to do :o

Well there have already been a few stages very similar to each other...
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


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WARNING: Location says Germany, but I'm Italian...
User avatar Eshnar
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Re: Race Design Challenge II

21 Dec 2016 22:20

Via Roma Stage 28 Roma --> Roma (ITT) 17 km
All Roads lead to Rome - proverb
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The final stage of the race, and it's ending with a pretty short time trial, crossing the 7 ancient hills of Rome. Unfortunately, due to dredging channels, and the draining of marshland, the hills are no longer distinctive on the profiles, however the riders will face a couple of short inclines, as well as a number of technical corners, to allow those willing to risk it all to gain time.
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The stage starts by the Colosseum, and opens with a climb straight up the Caelian Hill, which is 5.0% for 300 metres. The climbs today won't be long, but hopefully they will throw people off rhythm, and allow for pacing mistakes. The Caelian Hill was previously a wealthy residential district, although not many of the original buildings are still around. After the climb, the riders will have to take 2 90 degree bends, 1k apart, before climbing up to the days second hill, the Esquiline Hill. this climb is just 3.4% for 500m, but following a couple of tricky corners, the route travels under the Arch of Gallineus, and hence through the Servian Wall, before descending slightly off the hilltop.
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The third and forth hills quickly follow. Next up is the Viminal Hill (5.5% for 0.2km) followed by the Quirinal Hill, which is unnoticeable for the riders. After that, the stage takes a detour north, to the Mausoleum of Augustus, the final resting place of Augustus and all his best friends, before returning South, to arrive at the halfway point, after 8.2km, at the Pantheon, probably the best maintained of all the Monuments in Rome, due to it's continuous use.
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It's now time for the Capitoline Hill, 6% for 200m, which was home to most of the major temples in Roman times.
After a couple of hairpins, the riders will be at the banks of the Tiber, and about to cross the Pons Fabricius, built in 62 BC, and the oldest remaining bridge in Rome. Afterwards, they go south, before crossing back on the Ponte Sublicio, which is in roughly the same location as the ancient Pons Sublicius, legendary as the bridge Horatius held against an army, to allow the rest of the Romans time to destroy the bridge from behind him.
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AT 7% for 300m the climb up to Aventine hill is the most intimidating of the day, and the riders will do a loop around the top, before descending to its north, and then circle around the, formerly 150,000 capacity, Circus Maximus. After that they turn left back towards the Colosseum, before turning left again and climbing the Palatinate Hill via the Via Sacrum.
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As you can see, this final 7% 100 metre climb to the finish is cobblestoned, increase the degree of difficulty, and if the finish is tight it will allow the seconds to tick away with the finishers in sight of the line. The finish is just below the Arch of Titus, commemorating his victory in the siege of Jerusalem, but is probably more famous for being the template on which most later victory Arches were made, including the Arc de Triomphe in Paris. The top of the Palatinate Hill is a fitting finish for another reason, as it is here that the Milliarium Aureum can be found, the base of the Golden Milestone is believed to have been found, and it is at that specific point, that all roads were said to lead.
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mb2612
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Re: Race Design Challenge II

21 Dec 2016 22:50

Eshnar wrote:
Gigs_98 wrote:Guys, I don't know what to do. My last stage is so incredibly similar to Brullnux penultimate stage, that it basically looks like a copy of it. I'm really unsure what to do :o

Well there have already been a few stages very similar to each other...

Not that similar though. In my original version of the stage I had the same start, the same climb, I also used the Via Appia Antica to go back to Rome, and ofc my stage also finished in Rome. Basically the only two differences were the loop Brullnux used at the beginning of his stage and the run in in Rome.

Anyway, I've made some small changes, which I think don't really make the stage worse but at least slightly different.

CONSTANTINOPOLIS-ROMA stage 28: Ostia - Roma (127 km)
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I can't believe I've just written this stage headline for the last time :D

First of all, it's already very late, basically all important places I use in my stage have already been used in other stages so I won't write anything about the culture anymore. And thanks to Brullnux the majority of my stage has already been seen too. The first important difference between our stages is that in my race the riders don't have to suffer on the Via Appia Antica. As I wrote above, I thought about including this cobbled street, but then decided that this should rather be a classic parade as the last stage of a gt. I know, very conventional for such an unconventional race, but I'm not the biggest fan of crucial stages on the last day.
Anyway, although I don't use the Via Appia Antica, I follow the direction of the street and use a modern, parallel road. Near the end of this road the riders pass the Tomb of Cecilia Metella, which is the first Roman monument the riders pass inside Rome.
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Shortly after this landmark the riders will enter a 10.5 km long circuit through Rome, which the rider will have to ride 5 times. When the riders pass the finish line for the first line there will be an intermediate sprint and on the penultimate lap the golden mile will be on the last mile of this circuit. As you can see, I only designed the lap once on cronoescalada, so the profile says the stage is only 85 km long, it's actually 127 km long though. I tried to pass as many famous Roman monuments as possible on my lap so I will just post you a list of the landmarks the riders will pass:
-the Colosseum
-Caesar's Forum
-Largo Torre Argentina
-Constantine's Arch
-Circo Massimo
-Palatine Hill
-August's Forum
-Traian's Forum
-the Mausoleum of August
-the Piramide di Caio Cestia
-Porta San Paolo
-Therms of Caracalla

Moreover the riders won't really pass a few sights but they will be very close to the Pantheon and the Imperial Forums. And as another highlight the riders will ride over a Roman bridge, the Ponte S. Angelo.
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Besides this I never used any super tiny roads in the centre of Rome though and tried to always keep it as realistic as possible for the final, relatively flat parade stage of a grand tour. The finish will be the same, which was used in Roma Maxima, so the riders will finish their race in the middle of the Roman city centre with the Colosseum in the background.
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Although I think nothing gc relevant could happen on such a stage, it could still be pretty interesting. The roads used in this stage aren't too small, but still there are hardly any long straights, so an attack might stick. Anyway I think that finishing in the capital of the Roman empire with a few laps around many of the most famous Roman monuments on the planet, is the perfect way to finish my race.
PS: Sorry that I didn't put many pictures in this post, but I think the pictures which have already been posted about Roman monuments in Rome are enough ;)
Last edited by Gigs_98 on 22 Dec 2016 15:01, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar Gigs_98
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22 Dec 2016 11:32

Great, the contentestants are finished. Unfortunately I don't have the time to grade the overall route until the weekend, though I might sneak the stage grades in later today
Kwibus wrote:So much quesions they have. Answers they will never get.
So why questions? If no answers?
-Kwibus, one of the great philosophers of the 21st century
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22 Dec 2016 12:06

Congratulations to all participants (both route makers and judges)! Sure, it's been a little exhausting even just following ;) :D But there's also many inspirational ideas, and I will for sure go over the routes again in the future. I hope I'll have the time and energy to join you the next time.
Goodbye, Tommeke; thank you for all you have given us!
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Re: Race Design Challenge II

22 Dec 2016 15:39

SUMMARY POST

-->library

-->map:
Image

--> 28 stages
- 3 ITT's (1, 13, 24)
- 3 * stages (2, 14, 15)
- 6 ** stages (3, 4, 10, 20, 23, 28)
- 3 *** stages (6, 8, 11)
- 6 **** stages (5, 9, 16, 17, 26, 27)
- 4 ***** stages (19, 21, 22, 24)
- 3 ultra stages (7, 12, 18)

--> 5985 kilometers raced overally
- 137 ITT kilometers

--> climbs
- 13 HC climbs
- 18 Cat. 1 climbs
- 11 Cat. 2 climbs
- 12 Cat. 3 climbs
- 21 Cat. 4 climbs

--> hours spent
- ∞
Last edited by Gigs_98 on 27 Dec 2016 20:14, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar Gigs_98
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22 Dec 2016 16:31

I have sent in my stage 28 marks to Eshnar. Some brilliant work over the last few months.

Just to get this straight, should I be providing marks for the route as a whole, for the final week or for both?
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Re: Race Design Challenge II

24 Dec 2016 12:38

Asking confirmation final grades are week 4 only?
Kwibus wrote:So much quesions they have. Answers they will never get.
So why questions? If no answers?
-Kwibus, one of the great philosophers of the 21st century
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Re: Race Design Challenge II

24 Dec 2016 12:46

Red Rick wrote:Asking confirmation final grades are week 4 only?

yes. Unless you want to evaluate the whole route :p In which case feel free :D
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


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WARNING: Location says Germany, but I'm Italian...
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Re: Race Design Challenge II

25 Dec 2016 09:27

Eshnar wrote:
Red Rick wrote:Asking confirmation final grades are week 4 only?

yes. Unless you want to evaluate the whole route :p In which case feel free :D

Yeah not doing that. :o
Kwibus wrote:So much quesions they have. Answers they will never get.
So why questions? If no answers?
-Kwibus, one of the great philosophers of the 21st century
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25 Dec 2016 10:18

When are the votes released?
Brullnux
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Re:

25 Dec 2016 10:48

Brullnux wrote:When are the votes released?

Obviously, when Eshnar has received them all. I just sent him mine 2 minutes ago, so if I was the last one, I imagine it won't take very long.
Kwibus wrote:So much quesions they have. Answers they will never get.
So why questions? If no answers?
-Kwibus, one of the great philosophers of the 21st century
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Re: Race Design Challenge II

25 Dec 2016 17:04

Merry Christmas! Here are stage 28 votes. For week 4 evaluation, Santa and his elves will need more time :o

JUDGE 1:

Gigs_98 T: 4 C: 4
I dig having a procession stage for a finale of such a tough GT. There is nothing else you could have done culturally either.

Brullnux T: 3 C: 2
I love the idea of an ITT up Pompeii from Vesuvius, but not the last day. I really think the race had to finish in Rome.

Rghysens T: 2 C: 3
There may be disagreement among the judges, but for me, this is not the time for a stage such as this. A nice enough stage in its own right, but like Brullnux, I am marking you down for something that feels wrong to me in the context of such a brutal tour.

mb2612 T: 3 C: 4
Although I would have preferred a sprint, I think an ITT is the next best thing. You have done a decent job in that context. Like Gigs, you have hit the right cultural notes.


JUDGE 2:

Gigs_98 T: 4 C: 4
How can you not merit the same kind of consideration as Brullnux's last stage without it being unfair? I like the fact that as this is a road stage (as opposed to mb2612's TT which allows more freedom in terms of roads used) you've crammed as much as you can in while still staying true to rider safety, because after 28 stages of pure sadomasochism, whatever remains of the peloton will be keen to avoid anything too dangerous when they arrive in Rome itself. Imagine crashing out of this race on the final day...

Brullnux T: 5 C: 3
You're the one that broke the mould on the finish in Rome, but this is a great and innovative way to finish. Having all the celebrations overlooking the preserved city would be glorious. I had to bump your cultural score down because of the rules and the fact it's not a Rome finish made it the easiest to accept the lower score on. Truth be told, it's a far from perfect stage, but you deserve 8 overall for this as a finale so I've bumped up the technical to compensate.

Rghysens T: 3 C: 4
More interesting than a parade finish but not the most exciting one technically - culturally it's brilliant, but as I'm sure you're well aware the problem is everybody's finishing in Rome, so a stage that would have been worth an easy 5 on most days is nudged down with the day of the finale.

mb2612 T: 3 C: 5
The reverse issue to Brullnux; I would have preferred the closing TT to be a bit more decisive in length, however honouring all seven hills of ancient Rome is, like so many of your stages, a cultural home run that covers for some of the concerns on the technical side.


JUDGE 3:

Gigs_98 T: 3 C: 4
Totally ok with a possible bunch sprint here, and adding some uncertainty in it is nicely done.

Brullnux T: 4 C: 3
I really appreciate the idea of starting in Pompei, and and it's a great ending technically, I'm not that fond of finishing such a historic race on a mountaintop rather than in the very city itself.

Rghysens T: 3 C: 4
I like giving a chance for a final desperate GC attempt. Also can't do much wrong with Via Appia

mb2612 T: 2 C: 5
I love the idea of going back to the very foundation of Rome with the last stage, but a 15km tt is very unlikely to have a significant impact on the GC


JUDGE 4:

Gigs_98 T: 3 C: 4
As a final parade, it's ok. Nice start location, I was almost gonna give you 5 cultural points...

Brullnux T: 4 C: 3
This stage would deserve much more culturally, but as the final stage of the Tour of Roman Empire, I believe it just doesn't cut it. Techincally, it's very interesting, although I'm not totally convinced.

Rghysens T: 3 C: 5
It was very hard to decide who to give 5 cultural points between you and Gigs. In the end, I decided to go for Via Appia and Capua.

mb2612 T: 4 C: 4
Short timetrial, I like it as the end of a GT, even as gigantic as this one.


CLASSIFICATION FOR STAGE 28

Gigs_98: 31
mb2612: 30
Rghysens: 27
Brullnux: 27


CLASSIFICATION AFTER STAGE 28:

rghysens: 1089
mb2612: 1036
Gigs_98: 997
Brullnux: 949
A race that doesn't give an attacker the chance to finish it off alone is not a race anymore.


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WARNING: Location says Germany, but I'm Italian...
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26 Dec 2016 20:57

I may be grasping here, but how much work would it be to make a map from all stages if you already have all the designs? I think it would look **** cool
Kwibus wrote:So much quesions they have. Answers they will never get.
So why questions? If no answers?
-Kwibus, one of the great philosophers of the 21st century
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Re:

26 Dec 2016 21:25

Red Rick wrote:I may be grasping here, but how much work would it be to make a map from all stages if you already have all the designs? I think it would look **** cool

I tried to do it but I have no idea how. I'd be very open to trying it out. It would be soooo cool.
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Re:

27 Dec 2016 12:06

Red Rick wrote:I may be grasping here, but how much work would it be to make a map from all stages if you already have all the designs? I think it would look **** cool


In Openrunner (which I used), you can only show 10 stages at a time on an overall map. I know you can make several printscreens of it, and stick them together in photoshop or so, but I'm no whizzkid and I actually don't want to spent too much time on it. Maybe i'll try next week if I can come up with something decent, but don't count on it.
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Re: Re:

27 Dec 2016 15:37

rghysens wrote:
Red Rick wrote:I may be grasping here, but how much work would it be to make a map from all stages if you already have all the designs? I think it would look **** cool


In Openrunner (which I used), you can only show 10 stages at a time on an overall map. I know you can make several printscreens of it, and stick them together in photoshop or so, but I'm no whizzkid and I actually don't want to spent too much time on it. Maybe i'll try next week if I can come up with something decent, but don't count on it.

I don't think I'd mind it that much if it's 3 different maps. Please don't waste too much time on my account :o
Kwibus wrote:So much quesions they have. Answers they will never get.
So why questions? If no answers?
-Kwibus, one of the great philosophers of the 21st century
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Re: Race Design Challenge II

27 Dec 2016 20:18

I updated my summary post with a map. Sorry for the bad resolution but I guess thats what happens if you make too many screenshots of the same picture. Btw, some of the stages on my map might not be identical to the stages I posted. Thats because I made this map with openrunner, where I usually create my races before I create the profiles for the stage with cronoescalada. However ofc sometimes I change a few things on cronoescalada so my openrunner stages aren't necessarily exactly the same as my cronoescalada stages.
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