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[Green Edge] Shayne Bannan, Gerry Ryan and an Aussie Pro Team for 2012?

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

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Re:

06 Sep 2017 19:04

HelloDolly wrote:Must be very disappointed with this Vuelta ....considering that at the onset they were listed as the team to take on SKY


It's been a shocking Vuelta - As DP wrote sending 3 GC riders to a GT is a recipe for disaster - I suppose it's seems a good idea if you are into fantasy cycling - Actually so far the whole GT season has been extremely disappointing - Nowhere near a podium and one stage across the three GT's makes for poor reading.
yaco
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Re: Re:

07 Sep 2017 06:14

yaco wrote:
HelloDolly wrote:Must be very disappointed with this Vuelta ....considering that at the onset they were listed as the team to take on SKY


It's been a shocking Vuelta - As DP wrote sending 3 GC riders to a GT is a recipe for disaster - I suppose it's seems a good idea if you are into fantasy cycling - Actually so far the whole GT season has been extremely disappointing - Nowhere near a podium and one stage across the three GT's makes for poor reading.


Whilst I largely agree that this Vuelta has been distinctly sub-standard and the GTs, in general, disappointing; the reality was that it was going to be difficult to match last seasons results let alone improve upon them.

Certainly, cirumstances such as Chaves' early season injury have caused disruption to some plans; I cannot help but think that they have multiplied the problems by overcomplicating things. A simple re-jig of AY to Giro, SY to Tour, Chaves to Vuelta would not only have been easier but allowed far more balanced line-ups at Tour but especially at Vuelta where there would be better support but probably also better stage winning opportunities.

Whilst their form for this year has indicated none of the GC men have been in podium shape; their team hierarchy have also done them a significant disservice and they have the right to make it clear "this must not happen again !"
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08 Sep 2017 15:59

As the entire GC team tanked in Spain, Ewan is doing his best to accumulate wins in Britland.
Dazed and Confused
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Re:

08 Sep 2017 16:16

Dazed and Confused wrote:As the entire GC team tanked in Spain, Ewan is doing his best to accumulate wins in Britland.


Wins are always nice. However, the overall significance of racking up wins in a 2nd tier non WT race = maybe 3 parts of diddly squat. 2017 with 2 GT podiums, 2 more GT top 10s and 2 monuments was always going to be exceedingly difficult to match let alone exceed.

Orica shot themselves in the foot with their selections for this GT ..... and when you send unbalanced teams to any GT where you have any legitimate ambitions; you pay for it. It is what it is .... what is imperative is that the strategic mis-steps made prior to and during this season are not only acknowledged but never repeated.
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09 Sep 2017 18:32

Is Cort still in the race? Tomorrow is the last opportunity to save this Vuelta.

No top-10 in GC is a bit of a bummer with this startlist.
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Re:

09 Sep 2017 19:16

Alexandre B. wrote:Is Cort still in the race? Tomorrow is the last opportunity to save this Vuelta.

No top-10 in GC is a bit of a bummer with this startlist.


He certainly is. Made the time cuts very easily. Would not surprise if there is a real effort to get him up for at least a prominent showing in the sprint given his efforts for others on various stages.

Orica went in with an unbalanced line-up and it backfired. SY was already spent after the Tour (and a busy season prior to that) so he was never going to be a factor. Chaves' season never recovered from spending 3 months out of racing and AY was frankly a major disappointment. Their biggest plus out of this race has been Haig who will gain a great deal from racing as much as he did at the "business end" of the race and 21st on GC isn't bad for one's 2nd GT.
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09 Sep 2017 19:18

Terrible season
portugal11
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Re:

10 Sep 2017 10:00

portugal11 wrote:Terrible season


It's hardly been a terrible season - Disappointing from a GC perspective no doubt, solid in the classics, very solid in the sprints with Ewan and some young riders are developing well - Overall it's been a solid season but more was expected.
yaco
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Re: Re:

10 Sep 2017 12:03

dirkprovin wrote:
Dazed and Confused wrote:As the entire GC team tanked in Spain, Ewan is doing his best to accumulate wins in Britland.


Wins are always nice. However, the overall significance of racking up wins in a 2nd tier non WT race = maybe 3 parts of diddly squat. 2017 with 2 GT podiums, 2 more GT top 10s and 2 monuments was always going to be exceedingly difficult to match let alone exceed.

Orica shot themselves in the foot with their selections for this GT ..... and when you send unbalanced teams to any GT where you have any legitimate ambitions; you pay for it. It is what it is .... what is imperative is that the strategic mis-steps made prior to and during this season are not only acknowledged but never repeated.


Especially when the guy who was - perhaps - your best shot for the overall loses a large part of the season due to injury, and has to deal with personal issues on top.

Though, judging by the BSP it hasn't been getting the riders up the climbs that has been the biggest issue.
Aka The Ginger One.
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Re: Re:

10 Sep 2017 13:49

yaco wrote:
portugal11 wrote:Terrible season


It's hardly been a terrible season - Disappointing from a GC perspective no doubt, solid in the classics, very solid in the sprints with Ewan and some young riders are developing well - Overall it's been a solid season but more was expected.


A more reasonable summation. Realistically, it was a massive ask to live up to the level of 2016 with 2 GT podiums + 2 other GT top10s plus 2 monuments.

Fair to say that GTs have been disappointments; partly due to outside factors impacting riders schedules but also due to some missteps on the part of team management. One dayers and one weekers = not the wins of last season but a fairly solid record of high finishes and a few podiums.

Certainly no reason to be reaching for the revolver or razor blades but certainly some grounds for very candid debriefs/assessments.
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Re: Re:

10 Sep 2017 14:17

yaco wrote:
portugal11 wrote:Terrible season


It's hardly been a terrible season - Disappointing from a GC perspective no doubt, solid in the classics, very solid in the sprints with Ewan and some young riders are developing well - Overall it's been a solid season but more was expected.

Orica did nothing in giro, tour, vuelta (with a great team). Even in classics they weren't great.
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Re: Re:

10 Sep 2017 16:10

portugal11 wrote:
yaco wrote:
portugal11 wrote:Terrible season


It's hardly been a terrible season - Disappointing from a GC perspective no doubt, solid in the classics, very solid in the sprints with Ewan and some young riders are developing well - Overall it's been a solid season but more was expected.

Orica did nothing in giro, tour, vuelta (with a great team). Even in classics they weren't great.


Granted Chaves' injury caused some re-jigging line-ups but in all 3 GTs; they essentially shot themselves in the foot.

They took Ewan to Giro and he did deliver 1 stage win but the amount of labour expended in the first week left the team largely burned out by wk3.

Tour: Chaves realistically should have been left just to ride Vuelta rather than do through the Tour. They butchered at least 1 stage opportunity.

Vuelta: You say "great team" .... great analysis that !! 3 GC men in a 9 men line-up might look great on paper but is always going to mean an unbalanced line-up. SY was visibly running on empty at end of Tour and this was confirmed at San Sebastian ..... yet they still select him rather than another support option or rouleur.

Classics: backing up from a season with 2 monuments; next to impossible to live up to. Cobbles - actually a better season across all races but no PR win. Ardennes - up to usual standards if no LBL podium.
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Re: [Green Edge] Shayne Bannan, Gerry Ryan and an Aussie Pro

11 Sep 2017 02:15

Certainly not what they were hoping for after an amazing 2016 (still Lombardia to come). On the plus side, their young Aussies like Ewan, Haig and Durbridge have made a step forward and they've made some great signings for 2018.
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Re: [Green Edge] Shayne Bannan, Gerry Ryan and an Aussie Pro

11 Sep 2017 04:24

JRanton wrote:Certainly not what they were hoping for after an amazing 2016 (still Lombardia to come). On the plus side, their young Aussies like Ewan, Haig and Durbridge have made a step forward and they've made some great signings for 2018.


Durbridge cas certainly came of age as a rider who can compete at the sharp end of the major cobbles races. Edmondson also showed some very promising early signs of being a major prospect for these races. Haig really took some major steps forward from an excellent neo-pro year both at one day races and the Vuelta. Ewan ..... will realistically need to find a new team that can give him the priority and full support as a bunch sprinter as Orica is evolving into a GC team and a split focus helps neither.
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11 Sep 2017 05:03

Even worse than their Vuelta being a disappointment is the news that the long running and often epic Backstage Pass is coming to an end. Some incredible work from Dan Jones over the past six seasons that has set the benchmark in social media activity and team insight in the sport. It will be sadly missed but I wish Dan all the best in his future endeavours:

https://www.greenedgecycling.com/news/post-dan-life
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Re: [Green Edge] Shayne Bannan, Gerry Ryan and an Aussie Pro

11 Sep 2017 05:10

dirkprovin wrote:
JRanton wrote:Certainly not what they were hoping for after an amazing 2016 (still Lombardia to come). On the plus side, their young Aussies like Ewan, Haig and Durbridge have made a step forward and they've made some great signings for 2018.


Durbridge cas certainly came of age as a rider who can compete at the sharp end of the major cobbles races. Edmondson also showed some very promising early signs of being a major prospect for these races. Haig really took some major steps forward from an excellent neo-pro year both at one day races and the Vuelta. Ewan ..... will realistically need to find a new team that can give him the priority and full support as a bunch sprinter as Orica is evolving into a GC team and a split focus helps neither.


Don't think Ewan needs a sprint train and Mezgec is starting to form an understanding with him. The way Greipel has gone this year there could be a position at Lotto.
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11 Sep 2017 06:08

No word yet on Lucas Hamilton?
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Re: [Green Edge] Shayne Bannan, Gerry Ryan and an Aussie Pro

11 Sep 2017 09:34

movingtarget wrote:
dirkprovin wrote:
JRanton wrote:Certainly not what they were hoping for after an amazing 2016 (still Lombardia to come). On the plus side, their young Aussies like Ewan, Haig and Durbridge have made a step forward and they've made some great signings for 2018.


Durbridge cas certainly came of age as a rider who can compete at the sharp end of the major cobbles races. Edmondson also showed some very promising early signs of being a major prospect for these races. Haig really took some major steps forward from an excellent neo-pro year both at one day races and the Vuelta. Ewan ..... will realistically need to find a new team that can give him the priority and full support as a bunch sprinter as Orica is evolving into a GC team and a split focus helps neither.


Don't think Ewan needs a sprint train and Mezgec is starting to form an understanding with him. The way Greipel has gone this year there could be a position at Lotto.


Sorry but I have to dissent from that. Yes, he can get away with losing his man's wheel and still winning at early season races when the rest of his competition is short of race condition .... and whilst he was up against some reasonably quick guys at TOB; it is a 2nd tier race and the depth and strength of the fields in no way comparable to peak season WT races.

Secondly, he DOES need a train if he is to compete at anywhere near "terms" with the really top sprinters. Yes he won a stage at the Giro but all too often he loses his man's wheel and backs off causing him to be washed away. This has happened at Giro as well as a number of other WT races. He hasn't the size, the strength or the daring to be able to "freelance" at bunch kicks. As for the Mezgec partnership; sometimes it clicks, other times Caleb gets second thoughts and backs off. Mezgec is certainly a class rider over a variety of terrain and I hope that they do re-sign him. Less for the sake of Ewan, but potentially with the development of Edmondson and even what Mezgec may be able to produce when given his own opportunities. He also has some reasonable mountain survivability so he can be of further utility to the team at stage races.

Thirdly, with GT teams reducing to 8 next year; the scope for including him plus providing him with specialised support decreases when the team's prime focus will almost certainly be GC; especially as he is otherwise "a passenger/dead weight" as regards any meaningful support and his TT ineptitude counts against him at GTs with TTTs. A classics style fast man who can survive the mountains, has a decent engine and doesnt need major support CAN most likely still co-exist in many GC centred GT line-ups but that isn't Ewan.

I DO, however, fully agree that Lotto Soudal may be a prime opportunity given Greipel's apparent decline. They will be able to give him both the precedence and the full support he will need if he is ever to graduate to a higher level as a sprinter.
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Re: Re:

11 Sep 2017 09:47

dirkprovin wrote:
yaco wrote:
HelloDolly wrote:Must be very disappointed with this Vuelta ....considering that at the onset they were listed as the team to take on SKY


It's been a shocking Vuelta - As DP wrote sending 3 GC riders to a GT is a recipe for disaster - I suppose it's seems a good idea if you are into fantasy cycling - Actually so far the whole GT season has been extremely disappointing - Nowhere near a podium and one stage across the three GT's makes for poor reading.


Whilst I largely agree that this Vuelta has been distinctly sub-standard and the GTs, in general, disappointing; the reality was that it was going to be difficult to match last seasons results let alone improve upon them.

Certainly, cirumstances such as Chaves' early season injury have caused disruption to some plans; I cannot help but think that they have multiplied the problems by overcomplicating things. A simple re-jig of AY to Giro, SY to Tour, Chaves to Vuelta would not only have been easier but allowed far more balanced line-ups at Tour but especially at Vuelta where there would be better support but probably also better stage winning opportunities.

Whilst their form for this year has indicated none of the GC men have been in podium shape; their team hierarchy have also done them a significant disservice and they have the right to make it clear "this must not happen again !"

I have to agree there re: team selections. I suspect that White may have had a greater say than Stephens in the Vuelta lineup. Simon Yates did well overall but was running on fumes - Plaza, Howson, Durbridge or possibly even Power (he has to ride a GT sometime) would have been a better selection.

Also, they seemed to go a little too deep trying to protect both Chaves and Adam Yates' GC places. Ambushing selected mountain stages would have served far better.
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11 Sep 2017 12:15

Orica have good additions to the squad in Nieve,Trentin,Bauer and Meyer - They hit form, gel with the team and results will follow - I'd expect Haig to ride a shadow GC in 2018, while Orica need to set clear goals for their 3 GC guys - I suspect one of the Yates will be at another team in 2019, to allow for the development of Haig - Ewan is not as happy as he could be, and is unlikely to be at Orica in 2019 - In saying that, Ewan needs Mezgec to recommit at Orica - Trentin will be a key part of the classic squad along with Durbridge and the developing Edmondson - Reckon there are gaps in the Ardennes squad, though expect one of the Yates to focus in this area - Hamilton's signing may be not be a certainty as there is some issue !

I will add team tactics in recent races have been lacking - Orica seemed to nearly always get the wrong riders in the break during the Vuelta - Even the Montreal race was a disaster - Kreuziger was very strong and should have forged clear from the second group when the race broke down in the last 10kms - It's a bit late sitting up in the second group waiting for Impey to get back to the group who couldn't win in a sprint finish in that company.
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