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[Green Edge] Shayne Bannan, Gerry Ryan and an Aussie Pro Team for 2012?

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11 Sep 2017 12:21

I do not see how Orica win a GT with the 3 they have? None of them can TT well enough to compete, so unless one of the GT routes has no TT km's other than a prologue, I think they will be lacking for GT success
jarvo
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Re:

11 Sep 2017 12:52

jarvo wrote:I do not see how Orica win a GT with the 3 they have? None of them can TT well enough to compete, so unless one of the GT routes has no TT km's other than a prologue, I think they will be lacking for GT success


Chaves is still a chance to win a GT, but not Yates x 2.
yaco
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Re: Re:

11 Sep 2017 13:26

yaco wrote:
jarvo wrote:I do not see how Orica win a GT with the 3 they have? None of them can TT well enough to compete, so unless one of the GT routes has no TT km's other than a prologue, I think they will be lacking for GT success


Chaves is still a chance to win a GT, but not Yates x 2.

Nieve perhaps better than all of them?
User avatar swuzzlebubble
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11 Sep 2017 16:16

Do you think the UCI should give Orica Scott some kind of award or recognition for Backstage Pass ? The whole concept did a brilliant job of bringing the team closer to the fans and of course inspired other teams to do likewise.
yaco
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Re:

12 Sep 2017 01:55

yaco wrote:Orica have good additions to the squad in Nieve,Trentin,Bauer and Meyer - They hit form, gel with the team and results will follow - I'd expect Haig to ride a shadow GC in 2018, while Orica need to set clear goals for their 3 GC guys - I suspect one of the Yates will be at another team in 2019, to allow for the development of Haig - Ewan is not as happy as he could be, and is unlikely to be at Orica in 2019 - In saying that, Ewan needs Mezgec to recommit at Orica - Trentin will be a key part of the classic squad along with Durbridge and the developing Edmondson - Reckon there are gaps in the Ardennes squad, though expect one of the Yates to focus in this area - Hamilton's signing may be not be a certainty as there is some issue !

I will add team tactics in recent races have been lacking - Orica seemed to nearly always get the wrong riders in the break during the Vuelta - Even the Montreal race was a disaster - Kreuziger was very strong and should have forged clear from the second group when the race broke down in the last 10kms - It's a bit late sitting up in the second group waiting for Impey to get back to the group who couldn't win in a sprint finish in that company.


Yes, Montreal was a comedy of errors tactically just like Quebec. I fully agree with 42x16ss that White has some significant questions to answer re both tactical & selection issues; I would also have Lapage subjected to the "blowtorch"; too many races where he has been race DS have been marked by tactical inflexibility & conservatism.

One wonders if the Hamilton "isuue" revolves around one Jason Bakker Esq trying a little "hard-ball" linking little Caleb to Hamilton ? Would not surprise; both Hamilton & Ewan are frankly done a disservice by their choice of manager but not should Orica acquiesce to any "squeeze play".

yaco wrote:Do you think the UCI should give Orica Scott some kind of award or recognition for Backstage Pass ? The whole concept did a brilliant job of bringing the team closer to the fans and of course inspired other teams to do likewise.


They won't although they should. They have most certainly shown the way for the sport as regards fan/public relations and it will be sorely missed. Will be interesting to see how they manage to fill this void

yaco wrote:
jarvo wrote:I do not see how Orica win a GT with the 3 they have? None of them can TT well enough to compete, so unless one of the GT routes has no TT km's other than a prologue, I think they will be lacking for GT success


Chaves is still a chance to win a GT, but not Yates x 2.


Tend to agree with Yaco. Neither Yates have the capacity to "make things happen" in the mountains whereas Chaves at his best can. In a GT with (A) only short prologue or TTT to start plus either mountain TT/shorter TT with significant uphill quotient; a Chaves of 2016 vintage can still be very much a factor. GTs of that type will not come around every year but but Chaves has shown the capacity to do well in mountain TTs (2016 Giro) & on form, limit reasonably well on TTs with some decent climbing involved. Haig is the real X factor at this point; the next 2 years should tell us a lot more re his capabilities/limitations.
dirkprovin
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12 Sep 2017 11:55

Anyway Gerry Ryan is again putting his hand in his pocket or that should be his companies - So he will effectively be bankrolling the team in 2018, unless they find a new major sponsor before the start of the season - Gerry fairly much bankrolled Green Edge Cycling in 2012, before Orica come on board - Its tough work finding Australian companies to sponsor the team as they are very inward looking when it comes to sponsorship - I'd be surprised if Gerry will bankroll the team in 2019 - Add Gerry having to put his hand into his pocket to help the women's team and the Continental team because the Performance Director of Australian Cycling Simon Jones has cut funding to both these teams - Jones will be under significant pressure to produce track medals as he has no interest in road cycling - I wonder how long Jones will last ?
yaco
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Re:

12 Sep 2017 12:42

yaco wrote:Anyway Gerry Ryan is again putting his hand in his pocket or that should be his companies - So he will effectively be bankrolling the team in 2018, unless they find a new major sponsor before the start of the season - Gerry fairly much bankrolled Green Edge Cycling in 2012, before Orica come on board - Its tough work finding Australian companies to sponsor the team as they are very inward looking when it comes to sponsorship - I'd be surprised if Gerry will bankroll the team in 2019 - Add Gerry having to put his hand into his pocket to help the women's team and the Continental team because the Performance Director of Australian Cycling Simon Jones has cut funding to both these teams - Jones will be under significant pressure to produce track medals as he has no interest in road cycling - I wonder how long Jones will last ?


I think Jones will be turfed out on his rear within 18 months, regrettably his legacy may take much longer to repair ... some of it may be irreparable.

There are very few AUS corporates that are legitimately "international brands" or that have any significant international footprint ... or that are not just branch offices of larger international entities. This explains why most AUS corporates are primarily "domestically focused" as regards advertising and any sponsorship $$$ .... and why the pool of potential sponsors from this source is particularly small. The liklihood of another AUS corporate coming in as new naming rights sponsor ..... really not great. It will almost certainly have to be some Asian money.

Ryan will stump up for 2018 but methinks results next year will play a significant role with regards to (1) the extent of further "bankrolling"; (2) which/if any operations may be closed down. They do have riders with 2019 contracts so one has to think that the WT team, at min, should at least last through that season, Realistically, I don't think Ryan will want to shut down ANY of them but Cycling AUS aren't making life easy for him and there are limits to how long he can/should pump $$$$ in.
dirkprovin
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12 Sep 2017 14:01

Here's a question: why did Ryan wait four years before putting one of his companies (Bike Exchange) in the name of the team?
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Re:

12 Sep 2017 14:09

TMP402 wrote:Here's a question: why did Ryan wait four years before putting one of his companies (Bike Exchange) in the name of the team?
\

Maybe Orica advised that they would be scaling down their $$$ for the final year, and at that stage the Scott arrangement may not have been finalised so the Bike Exchange labelling may well have been a "bridging" arrangement.

As it is, at least two of Ryan's companies (Jayco & Mitchelton) have had logo space on GE kits at various times of the team's history.
dirkprovin
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Re:

12 Sep 2017 17:24

TMP402 wrote:Here's a question: why did Ryan wait four years before putting one of his companies (Bike Exchange) in the name of the team?


My understanding is Orica were to finish sponsorship in 2016, and hence the adding of bike exchange - Orica after the 2016 TDF agreed to add one extra year to their sponsorship.
yaco
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12 Sep 2017 17:27

Just listened to the latest episode of Life in the Peloton - Kirk Docker interviewed Mitch and Heppy - Very much a lay-person's interview.
yaco
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12 Sep 2017 18:09

So if Ryan is left as the only sponsor apart from Scott, we could be looking at BikeExchange-Scott/Jayco-Scott/etc, I suppose?
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Re:

12 Sep 2017 18:26

TMP402 wrote:So if Ryan is left as the only sponsor apart from Scott, we could be looking at BikeExchange-Scott/Jayco-Scott/etc, I suppose?


Don't forget Mitchelton - Think any future big sponsorship will come from Asia.
yaco
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12 Sep 2017 21:53

Who selected the men's worlds RR team? And what psychedelics were they on when made the selections?
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Re:

13 Sep 2017 04:14

The Hegelian wrote:Who selected the men's worlds RR team? And what psychedelics were they on when made the selections?
selection

Brad McGee - The actual selection is fine, except for Haussler - Its good they have one team leader in Matthews, unlike the last two years - Main thing is they have plan B in case something goes wrong with Matthews.
yaco
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13 Sep 2017 05:21

Those two points were exactly what I had in mind: Haussler?? Surely it's Haas ahead of him - and that's the non-Matthews option in the finale. "All in for MM" is fine, but that implies you have someone dangerous and capable in the finale so you can play a few different cards in a few different situations. McCarthy and Hass would both be handy - Haussler won't be anywhere near the finale.
User avatar The Hegelian
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Re:

13 Sep 2017 07:32

The Hegelian wrote:Those two points were exactly what I had in mind: Haussler?? Surely it's Haas ahead of him - and that's the non-Matthews option in the finale. "All in for MM" is fine, but that implies you have someone dangerous and capable in the finale so you can play a few different cards in a few different situations. McCarthy and Hass would both be handy - Haussler won't be anywhere near the finale.



You need to have a good relationship with McGee and the like to be selected. Doubt Haas has a good relationship with the selectors.
yaco
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13 Sep 2017 12:28

Team for the TTT

Howson
Durbridge
Howson
Tuft
Impey
Edmondson

A predictable team that should finish top 5.
yaco
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Re:

13 Sep 2017 13:05

yaco wrote:Team for the TTT

Howson
Durbridge
Howson
Tuft
Impey
Edmondson

A predictable team that should finish top 5.


Top 5-6 but that's about it. A couple of others would need to have shockers/major mishaps for them to make the podium.
dirkprovin
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Re: Re:

14 Sep 2017 09:22

dirkprovin wrote:
yaco wrote:Team for the TTT

Howson
Durbridge
Howson
Tuft
Impey
Edmondson

A predictable team that should finish top 5.


Top 5-6 but that's about it. A couple of others would need to have shockers/major mishaps for them to make the podium.

I'm guessing one of the Howson's is meant to be Hepburn...

A solid team, but missing a specialist TTT'er from previous years like Matthews or Meyer who can really lift the overall speed for a decent length of time. Maybe Keukeleire or Cort for Edmondson would be a good switch
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