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[Green Edge] Shayne Bannan, Gerry Ryan and an Aussie Pro Team for 2012?

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Re: Re:

08 Dec 2017 15:30

dirkprovin wrote:
greenedge wrote:
yaco wrote:My understanding is Ewan,Hepburn and Hayman are confirmed for the TDU with Bauer and Meyer probables - Unsure of the final 2 positions - Does anyone have an idea.


I would assume Impey (as a possible GC option/ all-round rider) and one of Kluge or Mezgec to serve as Ewan's leadout man. If not one of those two I would guess for Edmondson or Durbridge. I would prefer for Haig or Howson to be given GC leadership there (or at least in the squad) but ORS must feel confident that Meyer will have a very high peak during the summer.


Haig won't be seen in AUS this summer. He will most likely get his GC opportunities either as "B option" at certain WT one-weekers or as leader at lower tier WT one-weekers/non WT races. Do not be surprised if he is "option B" at one of this year's GTs.

Impey traditionally does ride TDU. He has ridden top10 GC twice so he is a viable option to hoover up some reasonable WT points but realistically the prime focus will be Ewan snagging some relatively soft stage wins (and WT points). Meyer or Howson could ride reasonable GC if on great form but their best chance would be via being in a break that stays away on an early stage ... not sure that they'd be allowed that leeway.


Realistically GC at the TDU is a low priority - Porte at 90-95% will decimate GC - Better to wait for another day.
yaco
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08 Dec 2017 15:35

Is there still talk of Aqua Blue Sport applying for WT status - Seems to be a natural connection for Ewan seeing he is engaged to the owner;s daughter.
yaco
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Re: Re:

08 Dec 2017 16:13

yaco wrote:
dirkprovin wrote:
greenedge wrote:
yaco wrote:My understanding is Ewan,Hepburn and Hayman are confirmed for the TDU with Bauer and Meyer probables - Unsure of the final 2 positions - Does anyone have an idea.


I would assume Impey (as a possible GC option/ all-round rider) and one of Kluge or Mezgec to serve as Ewan's leadout man. If not one of those two I would guess for Edmondson or Durbridge. I would prefer for Haig or Howson to be given GC leadership there (or at least in the squad) but ORS must feel confident that Meyer will have a very high peak during the summer.


Haig won't be seen in AUS this summer. He will most likely get his GC opportunities either as "B option" at certain WT one-weekers or as leader at lower tier WT one-weekers/non WT races. Do not be surprised if he is "option B" at one of this year's GTs.

Impey traditionally does ride TDU. He has ridden top10 GC twice so he is a viable option to hoover up some reasonable WT points but realistically the prime focus will be Ewan snagging some relatively soft stage wins (and WT points). Meyer or Howson could ride reasonable GC if on great form but their best chance would be via being in a break that stays away on an early stage ... not sure that they'd be allowed that leeway.


Realistically GC at the TDU is a low priority - Porte at 90-95% will decimate GC - Better to wait for another day.


Yes, barring illness or injury, Porte is a prohibitive favourite to win TDU but a high GC finish still means a very nice swag of points.

yaco wrote:Is there still talk of Aqua Blue Sport applying for WT status - Seems to be a natural connection for Ewan seeing he is engaged to the owner;s daughter.


All the more reason to fatten him up for market with a nice swag of WT points from soft early season wins before "parking him" when the serious races come around. Hey, if they want to buy out the remainder of his contract ... even better !!
dirkprovin
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13 Dec 2017 10:54

Ewan confirmed to ride the 2018 TDF as discussed earlier in the thread - Can win a stage as long as he has Mezgec by his side - There will no big sprint train for Ewan as MS still have GC aspirations, though the Giro and the Vuelta are the two main targets - As discussed earlier, MS is using the TDF as a shopfront to lure potential sponsors - Will add it's important for Ewan to ride French races like PN/Dauphine as he has little experience riding in France.
yaco
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Re:

13 Dec 2017 11:21

yaco wrote:Ewan confirmed to ride the 2018 TDF as discussed earlier in the thread - Can win a stage as long as he has Mezgec by his side - There will no big sprint train for Ewan as MS still have GC aspirations, though the Giro and the Vuelta are the two main targets - As discussed earlier, MS is using the TDF as a shopfront to lure potential sponsors - Will add it's important for Ewan to ride French races like PN/Dauphine as he has little experience riding in France.

He’ll place well in a couple of sprints but will be blown away by Kittel just like the others.

That’s if Bouhanni/Cav/Demare doesn’t slam Ewan into a traffic island first.
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13 Dec 2017 15:17

You can see it's about sponsorship/marketing hence the decision to make the announcement 7 months before the TDF - In saying that Ewan has a definite chance to win a stage - Agree that an in-form Kittel is definitely faster.
yaco
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Re:

13 Dec 2017 16:32

yaco wrote:You can see it's about sponsorship/marketing hence the decision to make the announcement 7 months before the TDF - In saying that Ewan has a definite chance to win a stage - Agree that an in-form Kittel is definitely faster.


Yeah, in form Kittel is the fastest but he has his own issues with being in the right place at the right time to sprint.
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Re: Re:

14 Dec 2017 05:37

42x16ss wrote:
yaco wrote:Ewan confirmed to ride the 2018 TDF as discussed earlier in the thread - Can win a stage as long as he has Mezgec by his side - There will no big sprint train for Ewan as MS still have GC aspirations, though the Giro and the Vuelta are the two main targets - As discussed earlier, MS is using the TDF as a shopfront to lure potential sponsors - Will add it's important for Ewan to ride French races like PN/Dauphine as he has little experience riding in France.

He’ll place well in a couple of sprints but will be blown away by Kittel just like the others.

That’s if Bouhanni/Cav/Demare doesn’t slam Ewan into a traffic island first.


His most realistic chance of ANY high placing (let alone a win) will be via a crash taking down or delaying a significant quotient of the other sprinters and their trains ...... and he having the sheer luck to avoid it. The realities of TDF sprints are that you will see at least 1-2 such crashes per Tour ..... the intangible element is just WHO will be lucky enough to avoid them on the day.

Otherwise his tendency to back-off/lose his man's wheel when at "close quarters" is likely to see him out of contention in most other sprints despite Mezgec's navigational skills.
dirkprovin
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Re: Re:

14 Dec 2017 08:34

Zinoviev Letter wrote:
yaco wrote:You can see it's about sponsorship/marketing hence the decision to make the announcement 7 months before the TDF - In saying that Ewan has a definite chance to win a stage - Agree that an in-form Kittel is definitely faster.


Yeah, in form Kittel is the fastest but he has his own issues with being in the right place at the right time to sprint.

Maybe... if someone paved over an ant’s nest or speed hump somewhere in the last few kms
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Re: Re:

14 Dec 2017 11:07

dirkprovin wrote:
42x16ss wrote:
yaco wrote:Ewan confirmed to ride the 2018 TDF as discussed earlier in the thread - Can win a stage as long as he has Mezgec by his side - There will no big sprint train for Ewan as MS still have GC aspirations, though the Giro and the Vuelta are the two main targets - As discussed earlier, MS is using the TDF as a shopfront to lure potential sponsors - Will add it's important for Ewan to ride French races like PN/Dauphine as he has little experience riding in France.

He’ll place well in a couple of sprints but will be blown away by Kittel just like the others.

That’s if Bouhanni/Cav/Demare doesn’t slam Ewan into a traffic island first.


His most realistic chance of ANY high placing (let alone a win) will be via a crash taking down or delaying a significant quotient of the other sprinters and their trains ...... and he having the sheer luck to avoid it. The realities of TDF sprints are that you will see at least 1-2 such crashes per Tour ..... the intangible element is just WHO will be lucky enough to avoid them on the day.

Otherwise his tendency to back-off/lose his man's wheel when at "close quarters" is likely to see him out of contention in most other sprints despite Mezgec's navigational skills.


Of course the contradiction is Ewan is riding the TDF for marketing/sponsorship reasons but at the same time, he's unlikely to be at MS in 2019.

When is MS having their team presentation ?
yaco
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15 Dec 2017 09:40

https://twitter.com/OricaScott/status/941597659508498432

Esteban Chaves = Giro & Vuelta
Simon Yates = Giro & Vuelta
Adam Yates = Tour
User avatar Alexandre B.
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15 Dec 2017 09:49

Yacco picked MS GT intentions in one.

http://www.greenedgecycling.com/news/adam-yates-returns-to-the-tour-de-france-while-chaves-and-simon-yates-double-up-at-the-giro-d-italia-and-vuelta-a-espana

Simon Yates and Chaves Target the Giro / Vuelta
Adam Yates targets the TdF.
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15 Dec 2017 12:24

I am surprised MS released the information so early but it's in line with expectations - MS should be able to get at least one podium from one of the GT's - My understanding is MS thought a podium was more achievable at Vuelta and the Giro, hence the way the riders have been split up - GT riders didn't get the races they wanted in 2017, but all are happy in 2018 - Also add in that A.Yates struggles from August onwards ( if he's done a GT ), so the TDF is a perfect fit - Ewan is the interesting case - Was shocked when he was nominated for the TDF because of the TTT in which he is a deadweight - But once the objectives were explained it makes sense - Have no idea about Trentin - Is he riding the Giro or the TDF ? Apparently Trentin is not your usual Italian who prefers to ride the Giro.

Let me play around with GT teams

Giro

Chaves
S.Yates
Kreuziger
Verona
Tuft
Bewley
Trentin
Kluge



TDF

A.Yates
Nieve
Haig
Ewan
Mezgec
Impey
Hepburn
Juul-Jensen

Vuelta

Chaves
S.Yates
Verona
Power
Tuft
Edmondson
Durbridge
Howson
Last edited by yaco on 15 Dec 2017 18:57, edited 1 time in total.
yaco
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15 Dec 2017 12:46

No GT for Durbridge?
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Re:

15 Dec 2017 13:57

yaco wrote:I am surprised MS released the information so early but it's in line with expectations - MS should be able to get at least one podium from one of the GT's - My understanding is MS thought a podium was more achievable at Vuelta and the Giro, hence the way the riders have been split up - GT riders didn't get the races they wanted in 2017, but all are happy in 2018 - Also add in that A.Yates struggles from August onwards ( if he's done a GT ), so the TDF is a perfect fit - Ewan is the interesting case - Was shocked when he was nominated for the TDF because of the TTT in which he is a deadweight - But once the objectives were explained it makes sense - Have no idea about Trentin - Is he riding the Giro or the TDF ? Apparently Trentin is not your usual Italian who prefers to ride the Giro.

Let me play around with GT teams

Giro

Chaves
S.Yates
Kreuziger
Verona
Tuft
Bewley
Trentin
Kluge



TDF

A.Yates
Nieve
Haig
Ewan
Mezgec
Impey
Hepburn
Juul-Jensen

Vuelta

Chaves
S.Yates
Verona
Power
Tuft
Edmondson
Power
Howson


Way too early to be thinking GT line-ups. Puzzling that MS would be showing their cards this early unless there is an element of bluff involved ...... but my estimation of M.White's intelligence considers that somewhat beyond his capabilities given the grand military balls-up he oversaw this year ! Chaves and SY do seem to have a reasonable level of compatibility/ability to co-habit so I have no issue with that call.

Of your line-ups:
- if Chaves at Giro and Vuelta are going to be their main objectives then I most definitely dissent from your selecting Verona. He has shown exactly 3 parts of diddly squat as regards any capacity as a high level climbing domestique let alone produce any results.
- Would select Howson ahead of him for both Giro and Vuelta. In fact, you'd be seriously considering selecting Haig but sending him as pseudo B option at Tour is something I can go with.
- selecting a superannuated engine in Tuft for 2 GTs ? Send him to one, I can go with but I'd prefer the likes of Bewley or Hepburn (both who have excellent relationships with Chaves) to do any "double" as they are younger and better able to back up
- Kluge .... is just a wasted selection. His only utility would be in service to Ewan.
- Power .... has to earn his ticket. As yet, he has given 0 justification for doing so.
- Nieve is somewhat of an X factor. Who will you team him with in lead-up races in order to build up understanding/rapport ? Think he is an interchangable with Kreuziger.
dirkprovin
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Re:

15 Dec 2017 16:28

42x16ss wrote:No GT for Durbridge?


I knew I left out one or two riders - Durbridge for either the Giro or the TDF - These are only suggested teams - Have deliberately excluded Hayman as he's always found GT's challenging and he struggled in the 2017 TDF
yaco
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Re: Re:

15 Dec 2017 16:37

dirkprovin wrote:
yaco wrote:I am surprised MS released the information so early but it's in line with expectations - MS should be able to get at least one podium from one of the GT's - My understanding is MS thought a podium was more achievable at Vuelta and the Giro, hence the way the riders have been split up - GT riders didn't get the races they wanted in 2017, but all are happy in 2018 - Also add in that A.Yates struggles from August onwards ( if he's done a GT ), so the TDF is a perfect fit - Ewan is the interesting case - Was shocked when he was nominated for the TDF because of the TTT in which he is a deadweight - But once the objectives were explained it makes sense - Have no idea about Trentin - Is he riding the Giro or the TDF ? Apparently Trentin is not your usual Italian who prefers to ride the Giro.

Let me play around with GT teams

Giro

Chaves
S.Yates
Kreuziger
Verona
Tuft
Bewley
Trentin
Kluge



TDF

A.Yates
Nieve
Haig
Ewan
Mezgec
Impey
Hepburn
Juul-Jensen

Vuelta

Chaves
S.Yates
Verona
Power
Tuft
Edmondson
Power
Howson


Way too early to be thinking GT line-ups. Puzzling that MS would be showing their cards this early unless there is an element of bluff involved ...... but my estimation of M.White's intelligence considers that somewhat beyond his capabilities given the grand military balls-up he oversaw this year ! Chaves and SY do seem to have a reasonable level of compatibility/ability to co-habit so I have no issue with that call.

Of your line-ups:
- if Chaves at Giro and Vuelta are going to be their main objectives then I most definitely dissent from your selecting Verona. He has shown exactly 3 parts of diddly squat as regards any capacity as a high level climbing domestique let alone produce any results.
- Would select Howson ahead of him for both Giro and Vuelta. In fact, you'd be seriously considering selecting Haig but sending him as pseudo B option at Tour is something I can go with.
- selecting a superannuated engine in Tuft for 2 GTs ? Send him to one, I can go with but I'd prefer the likes of Bewley or Hepburn (both who have excellent relationships with Chaves) to do any "double" as they are younger and better able to back up
- Kluge .... is just a wasted selection. His only utility would be in service to Ewan.
- Power .... has to earn his ticket. As yet, he has given 0 justification for doing so.
- Nieve is somewhat of an X factor. Who will you team him with in lead-up races in order to build up understanding/rapport ? Think he is an interchangable with Kreuziger.


DP - Don't take all of my post as gospel - I'm just throwing out some suggestions.

- Verona will ride one or two GT's because you can back him in to finish the race.
- Bewley is a definite chance to do two GT's.
- Think Hepburn deserves to ride a TDF. He is a reliable rider and of course he is now full time on the road
- Kluge needs to ride a GT and he makes sense at the Giro, especially if Trentin rides.
- Nieve has to do the TDF because if anything goes wrong with A.Yates, Nieve can win a stage or even a KOM.
- Power as a third year pro, especially with his characteristics needs to aim for a GT in his third year.
- I am unfazed if Howson rides the Vuelta or the Giro or both.

Finally, the one selection for me which is non-negotiable is Edmondson for the Vuelta. He has a fast finish and could find an opportunity or two in the final.
yaco
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15 Dec 2017 18:19

You've got Power in the Vuelta twice
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Re:

15 Dec 2017 18:56

swuzzlebubble wrote:You've got Power in the Vuelta twice


Hence my comment about not taking my post as gospel - Do you have any ideas to throw into the mix ?
yaco
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Re: Re:

15 Dec 2017 23:04

yaco wrote:
swuzzlebubble wrote:You've got Power in the Vuelta twice


Hence my comment about not taking my post as gospel - Do you have any ideas to throw into the mix ?

Well I'd take Trentin to the Tour to target some stages and assist the sprints.
I'd rate Nieve ahead of Yates for GC too so I'd at least have him as a protected rider with Haig and/or RK as support.

Also I think Durbridge or Tuft for the Tour to drive the TTT and be the big engine on the flatlands.
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