Log in:  

Register

Wiggins Discussion thread.

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

Moderators: Eshnar, Irondan, King Boonen, Red Rick, Pricey_sky

Re: Re:

14 Aug 2016 01:05

burning wrote:
elfed68 wrote:
El Pistolero wrote:
elfed68 wrote:
El Pistolero wrote:Yeah, I'm the one that needs to grow up here... Lol. Just saying the truth, track cycling is only taken seriously in a few countries. The British have won 4 out of 10 track events so far with an additional 2 silver medals...

Track cycling at the Olympics might as well be the Commonwealth Games. 11 out of the 18 medals handed out so far were won by Anglophones. Might as well make cyclocross an Olympic sport while we're at it.


But Wiggins isn't just a track rider...


That's why I mainly judge him by his palmares built up on the road. Good rider, one of the best, but there are quite a few who are better than him like Boonen, Cancellara, Contador, Froome, Nibali, Valverde, Sagan, etc.


I think Valverde is the only rider out of those who you can sort of compare to Wiggins, the others are ridiculously talented in their own field, but never diversified, Valverde was just unfortunate to be born too late, otherwise he'd be talked about with Hinault.

If Wiggins would have purely concentrated on Road, could he have been Indurain 2.0? I think the wattage is there, he just seems to lack the motivation to stick to one discipline


He was never in contention to win any GT by the third week before and after 2012. There is no way that he would be close to Indurain, he is more comparable to a guy like Riis.

I just remembered that I got him around 35th pick in the clinic fantasy draft, while Indurain was the 1st pick for everyone even though the draft was about a single GT, tells a lot about his abilities.


If Bradley goes on to team management, and Riis would have been a world class time triallist as well as a world class pursuitist, then yes, you may have an argument...
elfed68
Member
 
Posts: 426
Joined: 28 Jan 2014 18:26

14 Aug 2016 01:09

Riis was a world class TT'er and a ridiculous climber for a short period of time. Wiggins was the best TT'er and very good climber for a short period of time. His pursuit ability doesn't have much significance in overall picture.

Theae guys are very comparable but I know that it is pretty much impossible to argue with a British guy.
burning
Senior Member
 
Posts: 4,464
Joined: 29 Feb 2012 21:33

Re:

14 Aug 2016 01:13

burning wrote:Riis was a world class TT'er and a ridiculous climber for a short period of time. Wiggins was the best TT'er and very good climber for a short period of time. His pursuit ability doesn't have much significance in overall picture.

Theae guys are very comparable but I know that it is pretty much impossible to argue with a British guy.


Good try, but streets apart. .
elfed68
Member
 
Posts: 426
Joined: 28 Jan 2014 18:26

14 Aug 2016 02:06

Winning Olympic Gold in the Team Pursuit is so important to Wiggo that he has already lost his medal. :lol:
User avatar El Pistolero
Veteran
 
Posts: 16,255
Joined: 16 Jul 2010 21:53

Re: Wiggins Discussion thread.

14 Aug 2016 02:19

What is the value of the team events in track cycling? Are Wiggins's wins in the team pursuit worth as much as his wins in the individual pursuit, because I think in most sports a team event wouldn't even count almost as much, but still when people here talk about his track results nobody really makes a difference between team and individual event.
User avatar Gigs_98
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,872
Joined: 18 Feb 2015 18:36
Location: Austria

Re: Wiggins Discussion thread.

14 Aug 2016 02:46

Gigs_98 wrote:What is the value of the team events in track cycling? Are Wiggins's wins in the team pursuit worth as much as his wins in the individual pursuit, because I think in most sports a team event wouldn't even count almost as much, but still when people here talk about his track results nobody really makes a difference between team and individual event.


I'd say team pursuit is a closer competition. Australia didn't look great against GB and were down to 3 men for a while before GB lost their fourth man, yet still recorded a time good enough to beat the world record that had lasted for the four years since the 2012 Olympics. In the individual pursuit, if one guy has a bad day, then it looks rather one-sided.
User avatar TMP402
Veteran
 
Posts: 5,377
Joined: 13 Mar 2015 12:36

Re: Wiggins Discussion thread.

14 Aug 2016 02:47

Gigs_98 wrote:What is the value of the team events in track cycling? Are Wiggins's wins in the team pursuit worth as much as his wins in the individual pursuit, because I think in most sports a team event wouldn't even count almost as much, but still when people here talk about his track results nobody really makes a difference between team and individual event.


I honestly don't think there should be team events when there is also an individual event. Someone's nationality shouldn't have such a big effect on whether you can win gold or not...

I'm talking about the relay races in swimming, Athletics and track of course. Team-based sports such as basketball, rugby and hockey should remain in.

I rate Wiggo's team pursuit win about as high as Tom Boonen's win at the WC TTT.
User avatar El Pistolero
Veteran
 
Posts: 16,255
Joined: 16 Jul 2010 21:53

Re: Wiggins Discussion thread.

14 Aug 2016 02:50

Gigs_98 wrote:What is the value of the team events in track cycling? Are Wiggins's wins in the team pursuit worth as much as his wins in the individual pursuit, because I think in most sports a team event wouldn't even count almost as much, but still when people here talk about his track results nobody really makes a difference between team and individual event.

Throwing the individual pursuit out of the Olympics remains one of the worst decisions the UCI has ever made. GB considers the team pursuit very important, not just an extra medal. Proper credit should go to the other three riders: Ed Clancy, Steven Burke and Owain Doull.

It keeps baffling me how road cycling fans often don't care for the track and vice versa. Cycling commentators have called Wiggins a one-hit wonder, completely ignoring his Olympic achievements. In the U.K. darts and cricket remain more popular than road cycling.

Wiggins is an exceptional cyclist for being top in both disciplines. If people choose to ignore half of his career that's their choice.
User avatar Pantani_lives
Member
 
Posts: 1,307
Joined: 03 May 2010 13:27

Re: Wiggins Discussion thread.

14 Aug 2016 02:58

Pantani_lives wrote:
Gigs_98 wrote:What is the value of the team events in track cycling? Are Wiggins's wins in the team pursuit worth as much as his wins in the individual pursuit, because I think in most sports a team event wouldn't even count almost as much, but still when people here talk about his track results nobody really makes a difference between team and individual event.

Throwing the individual pursuit out of the Olympics remains one of the worst decisions the UCI has ever made. GB considers the team pursuit very important, not just an extra medal. Proper credit should go to the other three riders: Ed Clancy, Steven Burke and Owain Doull.


The only man to ride LBL and win a World Cup medal in the team SPRINT.
User avatar TMP402
Veteran
 
Posts: 5,377
Joined: 13 Mar 2015 12:36

Re:

14 Aug 2016 04:21

El Pistolero wrote:Rationality says that track cycling is of a much lower level than road cycling.

I don't dislike Wiggo, I just think his palmares is incredibly overrated. He had one amazing year, that's it.


The reason for road cycling getting all the attention now is money. Track cycling used to be huge and there was good money to be made. Salaries for good road riders did not increase much until Lemond, Anderson and others started pushing for changes and better money and sponsors started getting behind the non Europeans who were not too successful before then. Even Merckx used to ride six Day Races and get paid big money. Most young riders now just use the track to make the transition to the road same with mountain biking. All of the money is in road racing. Track cycling champions now don't get much attention anymore but they were superstars before.
movingtarget
Veteran
 
Posts: 9,714
Joined: 05 Aug 2009 08:54

Re: Re:

14 Aug 2016 04:29

movingtarget wrote:
El Pistolero wrote:Rationality says that track cycling is of a much lower level than road cycling.

I don't dislike Wiggo, I just think his palmares is incredibly overrated. He had one amazing year, that's it.


The reason for road cycling getting all the attention now is money. Track cycling used to be huge and there was good money to be made. Salaries for good road riders did not increase much until Lemond, Anderson and others started pushing for changes and better money and sponsors started getting behind the non Europeans who were not too successful before then. Even Merckx used to ride six Day Races and get paid big money. Most young riders now just use the track to make the transition to the road same with mountain biking. All of the money is in road racing. Track cycling champions now don't get much attention anymore but they were superstars before.


I know track cycling used to be bigger, I run past het Kuipke on a daily basis. :) Been to the event numerous times and know all about Patrick Sercu and also the achievements of Merckx on the track. But this is 2016 and track cycling is only popular with a few Anglophone countries and only because of the Olympics. I don't think that's a healthy spot to be in as a sport.

I think 10 medals for a niche sport as track cycling is way too much. If track cycling is Olympic, so should cyclocross be...
User avatar El Pistolero
Veteran
 
Posts: 16,255
Joined: 16 Jul 2010 21:53

Re: Re:

14 Aug 2016 13:15

El Pistolero wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
El Pistolero wrote:Rationality says that track cycling is of a much lower level than road cycling.

I don't dislike Wiggo, I just think his palmares is incredibly overrated. He had one amazing year, that's it.


The reason for road cycling getting all the attention now is money. Track cycling used to be huge and there was good money to be made. Salaries for good road riders did not increase much until Lemond, Anderson and others started pushing for changes and better money and sponsors started getting behind the non Europeans who were not too successful before then. Even Merckx used to ride six Day Races and get paid big money. Most young riders now just use the track to make the transition to the road same with mountain biking. All of the money is in road racing. Track cycling champions now don't get much attention anymore but they were superstars before.


I know track cycling used to be bigger, I run past het Kuipke on a daily basis. :) Been to the event numerous times and know all about Patrick Sercu and also the achievements of Merckx on the track. But this is 2016 and track cycling is only popular with a few Anglophone countries and only because of the Olympics. I don't think that's a healthy spot to be in as a sport.

I think 10 medals for a niche sport as track cycling is way too much. If track cycling is Olympic, so should cyclocross be...


Many riders went to Japan for the Keirin racing and gambling was a big deal on those races. It used to be very big, but I never hear much about it now and the Japanese don't seem to have the top line track sprinters anymore either. Maybe that has died out as well or at least lost popularity. Cyclocross should be an Olympic sport. BMX was an Olympic sport ! Sercu was a superstar on the track. I think he still holds the record for the most wins in Six Day Races. Sometimes he partnered Eddy. Very unfair that ! They got quite a few wins together.
movingtarget
Veteran
 
Posts: 9,714
Joined: 05 Aug 2009 08:54

Re: Re:

14 Aug 2016 13:56

El Pistolero wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
El Pistolero wrote:Rationality says that track cycling is of a much lower level than road cycling.

I don't dislike Wiggo, I just think his palmares is incredibly overrated. He had one amazing year, that's it.


The reason for road cycling getting all the attention now is money. Track cycling used to be huge and there was good money to be made. Salaries for good road riders did not increase much until Lemond, Anderson and others started pushing for changes and better money and sponsors started getting behind the non Europeans who were not too successful before then. Even Merckx used to ride six Day Races and get paid big money. Most young riders now just use the track to make the transition to the road same with mountain biking. All of the money is in road racing. Track cycling champions now don't get much attention anymore but they were superstars before.


I know track cycling used to be bigger, I run past het Kuipke on a daily basis. :) Been to the event numerous times and know all about Patrick Sercu and also the achievements of Merckx on the track. But this is 2016 and track cycling is only popular with a few Anglophone countries and only because of the Olympics. I don't think that's a healthy spot to be in as a sport.

I think 10 medals for a niche sport as track cycling is way too much. If track cycling is Olympic, so should cyclocross be...


UCI want to add it to the winter games.
MatParker117
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,019
Joined: 28 Aug 2012 22:05

Re: Re:

14 Aug 2016 14:44

MatParker117 wrote:
El Pistolero wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
El Pistolero wrote:Rationality says that track cycling is of a much lower level than road cycling.

I don't dislike Wiggo, I just think his palmares is incredibly overrated. He had one amazing year, that's it.


The reason for road cycling getting all the attention now is money. Track cycling used to be huge and there was good money to be made. Salaries for good road riders did not increase much until Lemond, Anderson and others started pushing for changes and better money and sponsors started getting behind the non Europeans who were not too successful before then. Even Merckx used to ride six Day Races and get paid big money. Most young riders now just use the track to make the transition to the road same with mountain biking. All of the money is in road racing. Track cycling champions now don't get much attention anymore but they were superstars before.


I know track cycling used to be bigger, I run past het Kuipke on a daily basis. :) Been to the event numerous times and know all about Patrick Sercu and also the achievements of Merckx on the track. But this is 2016 and track cycling is only popular with a few Anglophone countries and only because of the Olympics. I don't think that's a healthy spot to be in as a sport.

I think 10 medals for a niche sport as track cycling is way too much. If track cycling is Olympic, so should cyclocross be...


UCI want to add it to the winter games.


I hope they succeed, the sport needs to grow. We Belgians would win less if it became Olympic, but I'd gladly take that if it means the sport can become bigger and more international. It's a fun sport to watch and very easy to understand.
User avatar El Pistolero
Veteran
 
Posts: 16,255
Joined: 16 Jul 2010 21:53

14 Aug 2016 16:14

Well relay events count for a lot in most sports. For the "value of an olympic medal" - question, I believe all such discussions are futile. Leave the olympics out of the equation. At one time Poetry was an olympic discipline for crissake.

Wiggins however, is a great athlete nevertheless - I kind of like him what with all the mudslinging from people dissing him.
Thepirateisgood
Junior Member
 
Posts: 206
Joined: 20 Feb 2016 02:38

Re: Re:

14 Aug 2016 16:50

MatParker117 wrote:
El Pistolero wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
El Pistolero wrote:Rationality says that track cycling is of a much lower level than road cycling.

I don't dislike Wiggo, I just think his palmares is incredibly overrated. He had one amazing year, that's it.


The reason for road cycling getting all the attention now is money. Track cycling used to be huge and there was good money to be made. Salaries for good road riders did not increase much until Lemond, Anderson and others started pushing for changes and better money and sponsors started getting behind the non Europeans who were not too successful before then. Even Merckx used to ride six Day Races and get paid big money. Most young riders now just use the track to make the transition to the road same with mountain biking. All of the money is in road racing. Track cycling champions now don't get much attention anymore but they were superstars before.


I know track cycling used to be bigger, I run past het Kuipke on a daily basis. :) Been to the event numerous times and know all about Patrick Sercu and also the achievements of Merckx on the track. But this is 2016 and track cycling is only popular with a few Anglophone countries and only because of the Olympics. I don't think that's a healthy spot to be in as a sport.

I think 10 medals for a niche sport as track cycling is way too much. If track cycling is Olympic, so should cyclocross be...


UCI want to add it to the winter games.


IOC regulations mandate that 'winter' sports must involve snow or ice.
choose life choose a car choose smack choose gullibility choose marx choose opium choose religion choose masses
-blackcat
Cannibal72
Member
 
Posts: 953
Joined: 06 Feb 2016 20:49

Re: Re:

14 Aug 2016 16:52

Cannibal72 wrote:
MatParker117 wrote:
El Pistolero wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
El Pistolero wrote:Rationality says that track cycling is of a much lower level than road cycling.

I don't dislike Wiggo, I just think his palmares is incredibly overrated. He had one amazing year, that's it.


The reason for road cycling getting all the attention now is money. Track cycling used to be huge and there was good money to be made. Salaries for good road riders did not increase much until Lemond, Anderson and others started pushing for changes and better money and sponsors started getting behind the non Europeans who were not too successful before then. Even Merckx used to ride six Day Races and get paid big money. Most young riders now just use the track to make the transition to the road same with mountain biking. All of the money is in road racing. Track cycling champions now don't get much attention anymore but they were superstars before.


I know track cycling used to be bigger, I run past het Kuipke on a daily basis. :) Been to the event numerous times and know all about Patrick Sercu and also the achievements of Merckx on the track. But this is 2016 and track cycling is only popular with a few Anglophone countries and only because of the Olympics. I don't think that's a healthy spot to be in as a sport.

I think 10 medals for a niche sport as track cycling is way too much. If track cycling is Olympic, so should cyclocross be...


UCI want to add it to the winter games.


IOC regulations mandate that 'winter' sports must involve snow or ice.


Image

Why would that be a problem?
User avatar El Pistolero
Veteran
 
Posts: 16,255
Joined: 16 Jul 2010 21:53

16 Aug 2016 12:30

Vincenzo Nibali:
"I know how to ride a bike"

Reduce your carbon footprint, ride steel.
User avatar King Boonen
Administrator
 
Posts: 7,674
Joined: 25 Jul 2012 14:38

16 Aug 2016 12:31

Funny that Wiggins wants to start a women's team!

Goodluck to any ladies that dare ride for that team!!
User avatar Benotti69
Veteran
 
Posts: 19,530
Joined: 26 May 2010 09:09

Re: Re:

16 Aug 2016 12:33

Cannibal72 wrote:
MatParker117 wrote:
El Pistolero wrote:
movingtarget wrote:
El Pistolero wrote:Rationality says that track cycling is of a much lower level than road cycling.

I don't dislike Wiggo, I just think his palmares is incredibly overrated. He had one amazing year, that's it.


The reason for road cycling getting all the attention now is money. Track cycling used to be huge and there was good money to be made. Salaries for good road riders did not increase much until Lemond, Anderson and others started pushing for changes and better money and sponsors started getting behind the non Europeans who were not too successful before then. Even Merckx used to ride six Day Races and get paid big money. Most young riders now just use the track to make the transition to the road same with mountain biking. All of the money is in road racing. Track cycling champions now don't get much attention anymore but they were superstars before.


I know track cycling used to be bigger, I run past het Kuipke on a daily basis. :) Been to the event numerous times and know all about Patrick Sercu and also the achievements of Merckx on the track. But this is 2016 and track cycling is only popular with a few Anglophone countries and only because of the Olympics. I don't think that's a healthy spot to be in as a sport.

I think 10 medals for a niche sport as track cycling is way too much. If track cycling is Olympic, so should cyclocross be...


UCI want to add it to the winter games.


IOC regulations mandate that 'winter' sports must involve snow or ice.


This rule does not apply, however, to host cities, who can have abosultely no snow or ice at any point of the year as long as they have money.
Brullnux
Veteran
 
Posts: 5,373
Joined: 31 Mar 2015 14:41

PreviousNext

Return to Professional road racing

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: drebelo, HelloDolly, Jancouver, manolo57, Mavic, the delgados and 21 guests

Back to top