Log in:  

Register

Race Design Thread

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

Moderators: Eshnar, Irondan, King Boonen, Red Rick, Pricey_sky

Re:

11 Apr 2018 18:36

Red Rick wrote:Great tribute Gigs.

I imagine that you'll have less to work with especially for a Froome TdF tribute, as all his wins are localised in very concentrated area's.

True, I actually don't even know if I can make a proper froome tribute as I again don't want tomake a completely unbalanced mountain odyssey. I might have to make lots of stages without tributes. It's not that different than a nibali giro though
User avatar Gigs_98
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,543
Joined: 18 Feb 2015 18:36
Location: Austria

14 Apr 2018 08:27

Across Jutland, Stage 3: Aarhus - Jelling, 188.5 km

Image

This is a hilly affair with seven categorized climbs and a short uphill drag about a mile from the finish line. The hills are on average a bit steeper + longer than those in the Amstel Gold but there are fewer of them and I would expect identical riders to dominate. It's pretty much tailor-made for a Sagan, GVA or Matthews. Tim Wellens could also do well. Although I made a harder stage with shorter muritos, this is pretty much as mountainous as it's gets which tells you a lot about the Danish landscape. The terrain of Scandinavia is not the same. Denmark has much more in common with Holland and Belgium in terms of geomorphology while Norway (my home country) is more comparable with the Alpine nations such as Austria/Switzerland.

Today, we travel to the eastern coast as the third stage starts in Aarhus, also known as Aros in the Viking Ages, the largest city of the Cimbrian Peninsula (edging Kiel) and second largest city of Denmark after Copenhagen. With it's 300.000 inhabitants, it is the cultural center of Jutland.

Image
Downtown Aarhus.

Excavations show that Aarhus had originated around the year 770 and was created by the Vikings. The city's location around the sea and the river had played a central role. A lot of water has flowed through Aarhus Å (the river of Aarhus) since then. And now, Aarhus is today a city with over 300k+ people. The city is in constant growth and evolves all the time.

Image
Aarhus by night.

The race will start in "Aarhus Cykelbane”. A 333⅓ meter outdoor velodrome located in the luxurious Marselisborg district. Track cycling has a rich history in Aarhus dating back to the 1890s. The first circuit was held on a flat, 400 meters dirt lane, way back in 1893.

Image

After a city trip through the Århus trip, the riders will hit some wide roads leading to the hills around the sea port, Silkeborg.

Image
The first sprint alongside the river of the forested town of Silkeborg. After this sprint, the peloton will hit hill range in Silkeborg Forests, Denmark's largest green area.

First climb is Gjessøvej (1 km, 6.7%). First 800 m are about 7.5% with some false flat (3-4%) on the top. The next climb is more feasible. It starts with an uncategorized warm-up climb (Glarbobakken, 1.4 km at 4.7%) followed by a soft gravel descent leading up to Himmelbjerget (1.4 km, 6.4%). Himmelbjerget is a pretty consistent hill with a constant gradient of 6-7%. At the top of Himmelbjerget stands a 25 meter high-walled tower designed by the later city architect in Copenhagen Ludvig Fenger. It has been raised in memory of King Frederik 7.

Image
The iconic tower at the top of Himmelbjerget.

Narrow roads will lead us to the fast but punchy Sønder Vissing hill (1.1 km at 7%) in the heart of the Danish wilderness. Yding Skovhøj (1.3 km at 6.5%) is the next challenge. The forested hill is also known as being the highest, accessible point in Denmark. The hill is 172.54 m, taking into account a Bronze Age burial mound built on top of the climb. Unlike most Danish climbs, it's actually steepest at the top, the last 500 m being over 10%.

Image
The last 500 m at about 10% goes through the farmland. On the top of the hill, there is a Bronze age forest with several mounds.

Once the first hill range is passed, the roads become wider and more flat. Even a strong break formed in the Silkeborg hills will need to cooperate in order not to lose too much time. An intermediate sprint on the coastal side of Horsens, give the breakaway a chance to gain a few seconds but they will have to wait 50 km before the Vejle "Ardennes" are within reach.

Image
The last 28.5k of the hilly final.

In order to ensure aggressive racing, there will be some sort of Golden Kilometer (called the Silver Kilometer here) at the top of the hardest climb, Golfbakken (1.7 km, 6.4%) which is furthest away from the finish line. The first one to reach the top of Golfbakken will be awarded with 5 seconds, 3 secs for number 2 and 2 secs for third. One of the steeper sections of Golfbakken (The Golf Hill in English) leads us through a tunnel.

Image
The Golf Hill climb is peaking at about 11% just before the tunnel. Credits to danskebjerge.dk.

Golfbakken is an archetypical Danish hill. It's very steep in the bottom, often followed by a descent and with some false flat at the top. The Silver Kilometer makes it a great place for Wellens or Gilbert-type of rider with a great engine in hilly terrain to go clear and make it all the way to the finish.

Image
The profile of Golfbakken.

After Golfbakken, the longer, penultimate hill Jellingvejbakken is next. With the length of just 2 kilometers, this is a mountain in Danish terms. Despite having some hard pitches, it's pretty constant at about 5.3 or 5.4% depending on the source. It's a great hill for a team with a GC rider to get rid off the fastest guys who have survived Golfbakken by setting a hard pace.

The last climb is Jerrumbakken (1.2 km, 5.6%), the easiest climb of today but still a nice ramp for an aggressive pursuiter who likes to go solo. It's 5 km before the final in Jelling. Just before reaching Jelling, there is a small, punchy pseudo-climb next to the lake of Fårup. It's 600 m at 5.4% and is just a mile before the finish.

Image
Fårup Lake and the old town of Jelling popular destinations for tourists because of their Viking theme.

The final takes place in Jelling in front of the old-age church and protected Jelling stones, enormous 10th century runestones raised by Gorm the Old, the first ruler and King of Denmark. And later by his son, Harald Bluetooth.

Image
The Jelling Stones.
Velolover2
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,190
Joined: 12 Apr 2015 18:16

14 Apr 2018 08:59

4 down, just 3 to go. :D

It's always more challenging to make a one-week race in a country without mountains because you don't want any boring sprinter stages. You have to be more creative. I don't even know if a climber could win this stage. I highly doubt it. But I forgot to add that the last K is slightly uphill. Some 2% false flat leading up to the Jelling Monuments.
Velolover2
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,190
Joined: 12 Apr 2015 18:16

14 Apr 2018 14:48

Across Jutland, Stage 4: Esbjerg - Vejle 190.5 km

Image

This stage is an Ardennes classics worthy with it's 19 categorized climbs (+ 2 softer lumps before the first official hill: Blue Horse). In order estimate the climbs' gradients and length, I found a middle ground between the expert measurements from danskebjerge.dk (he tends to make them a bit steeper) and the official hill signs of Vejle Municipality (they tend to make them a bit longer).

While it's not as long as a hilly classic, it takes the best from all 3 of the Ardennes classics. The hills similar those of Amstel Gold Race when it comes to length but more comparable to the climbs of Liège-Bastogne-Liège and Flèche Wallonne in terms of steepness. The last uphill drag to the finish line (Rom's Hule: 700 m at 7%) isn''t showed on the profile. It's hard to pick a winner, but a rider capable of handling intense intervals and quick accelerations. This should be perfect for types like Kwiatkowski, Alaphilippe, Valverde, Benoot, Albasini but also Matthews/GVA have a chance.

Image
Kongebakken. The entire climb is 700 m at about 11.5% (starting from the foot of Jellingvej) but the actual "wall" about 500 m at 13.5%. So it's similar in steepness to Mur De Huy but a bit shorter. The hill will be climbed two times on the route. There are no intermediate sprints in this stage but the Silver Kilometer will be featured twice here. A 5 seconds bonus is awarded to the first man at top both times in order to ensure the puncheurs are attentive.

Image
Nice view of the entire town of Vejle from the Kongebakken-wall. The Vejle area is by far the hilliest place in Denmark.

Image
The roads leading up the forested hill, Østengård which is about 19k from the finish line. The climb is about 1 kilometer and a bit over 8%. There will be another "Silver Kilometer" at the top in this stage to spice things up. If you conquer Kongebakken twice + Østengård, you will be able to gain 15 bonus seconds. Credits to danskebjerge.dk for the picture.

Image
Østengård in the Tour of Denmark. But like Côte de La Redoute in Liege, the climb is often abused because it's too far way from the finish line to be crucial. Here it's less than 19k from the finish line and there is a bonus at the top. Instead of focusing on the great hills of Denmark, they are placing them too far apart from each other and make it all about uninspiring Kiddesvej laps.

Image
The finish line is located in front of Vejle's track and field stadium and local football team's home ground. An f.. you colourbox for destroying the aesthetics.

Image
The bay of Vejle. A place home to many of the climbs on the route and others such as the previously featured Golfbakken.

The list of hills on the route:

Blue Horse (750 m, 7.9%)
Tørskind (550 m, 9.6%)
Fandensdal (1 km, 5.5%)
Høllundvej (900 m, 6.3%)
Jennumbakken (1.2 km, 5.6%)
Hopballe Nord (750 m, 6.4%)
Bøgagervej (1 km, 6.6%)
Grejs Skov (450 m, 7.5%)
Kirkebyvej (650 m, 8.7%)
Kongebakken (500 m, 13.3%)
Bøgevang (550 m, 8.5%)
Kiddesvej (350 m, 13%)
Gl. Kolding Landevej (1 km, 5.4%)
Højen Skovvej (950 m, 7.5%)
Sandagergård, (450 m, 10%)
Østengård, (950 m, 8.2%)
Gl. Hornstrupvej, (550 m, 9.2%)
Kongebakken, (500 m, 13.3%)
Roms Hule, (700 m, 7%)

As mentioned earlier, I found a middle ground between the expert measurements from danskebjerge.dk (he tends to make them a bit steeper) and the official hill signs of Vejle Municipality (they tend to make them a bit longer).
Velolover2
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,190
Joined: 12 Apr 2015 18:16

14 Apr 2018 19:38

Is Kongebakken the same as Chr. Wintersvej?
User avatar Libertine Seguros
Veteran
 
Posts: 19,597
Joined: 20 Feb 2010 11:54
Location: Land of Saíz

14 Apr 2018 19:55

If we were able to include such stages in our potential Grand Départ, Im all for it. Would still be great with an easier stage as well... but as it stands, if we get the Tour start, Im afraid we are talking the same unsparing kind of stages as we saw in 2012 - apart from Storebæltsbroen which could be fun if windy.
User avatar Valv.Piti
Veteran
 
Posts: 9,376
Joined: 03 Aug 2015 00:00
Location: Dinamarca, Aalborg

Re:

14 Apr 2018 20:00

Libertine Seguros wrote:Is Kongebakken the same as Chr. Wintersvej?

Both yes and no. Chr. Wintersvej and Gl. Kongevej are two twin climbs who are called "Kongebakken" (King's Hill) when combined.

You can ride Chr. Wintersvej from the base of the climb (it's shorter but is almost 17% on average with 26% pitches) but I don't think it's made for road racing. It's too narrow for the team cars to get through. And from what I've heard, the asphalt is kinda loose and slippery. It should feel like riding on sandpaper.

Image
Velolover2
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,190
Joined: 12 Apr 2015 18:16

Re:

14 Apr 2018 20:15

Valv.Piti wrote:If we were able to include such stages in our potential Grand Départ, Im all for it. Would still be great with an easier stage as well... but as it stands, if we get the Tour start, Im afraid we are talking the same unsparing kind of stages as we saw in 2012 - apart from Storebæltsbroen which could be fun if windy.


Yeah, the most likely scenario:
Copenhagen prologue
Copenhagen..-Copenhagen
And then some stage from Copenhagen to a town in Zealand.

All flat of course. But even if the Tour should start in Norway or Sweden, the stages would be kinda flat too. It's not really about racing but the branding of the country's capital. ;)
Velolover2
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,190
Joined: 12 Apr 2015 18:16

Re: Race Design Thread

14 Apr 2018 20:38

@Velolover2. Good you've dropped the climbs categorisation as it was pointless. I like your presentation, how written it is even of this stinker below does ruin some of the fun.
I don't even know if a climber could win this stage. I highly doubt it.

Not "i highly doubt it", but "that's just impossible".

In my eyes it's not about the terrain. You can have interesting stages cyclingwise in any given terrain. If you do just a mix between wider and narrower roads - you're ensured a number of crashes. Denmark has way more than just that, which you are showing quite nicely.

An f.. you colourbox for destroying the aesthetics.

No worry, it's just a stadium. No aesthetics are being harmed.

Also, why are those priceless stones with viking's runes (one of their best invention) stored in such an ugly glassbox? I get it, it's to preserve them as best as possible why allowing peeps to admire them but the design of these boxes is just ugly. It looks like stolen from a jewelry store ffs.

I don't know if i should wait with my own race or not. I have basically all stages written down. If you also have your race written down then you can upload them in one sweep like you did with last two stages or just do a tennis with me - one day for you, one for me so peeps have time to follow and admire/detest our creations.

Ok, now i will upload my next stage, which should nicely tie-in with your Danish Ardennes theme as i have 11(!) categorised climbs ready to launch and i still omited two from that list to keep the profile somewhat readable. Considering the hills of Beskid Wyspowy are between 300-600m i feel confident to call it the Polish version of Ardennes.

Last stage: link

https://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/maps/viewtrack/hd/164745
Tour de Pologne 2 – stage 3. Nowy Sącz – Nowy Sącz, 197km, medium mountain/mountain.
Image
Image

Climbs:
Przełęcz Huta – 3,6km, 4,5%, cat. 2, 751m
Mokra Wieś – 3,5km, 4%, cat. 3, 457m
Przełęcz Ostra – 13,5km, 3% (max 14%), cat. 1, 812m
Pasierbiec – 1,8km, 8,5% (max 16%), cat. 2, 506m
Rozdziele – 4,2m, 4,2% (max 10%), cat. 2, 525m
Krosna – 2,7km, 8,3% (max 22%), cat. 1, 535m
Sechna – 1,4km, 13% (max 23%), cat. 1, 452m
Kromolin Górny – 1,8km, 9% (max 18%), cat. 1, 465m
Just – 2km, 5,8%, cat. 2, 374m
Zawadka – 3,5km, 5,5% (max 12%), cat. 2, 462m
Rdziostów – 1,4km, 6,4% (max 11%), cat. 3, 366m

The stage starts in Nowy Sącz, 30km north of Przehyba. Nowy Sącz is the historical capital of the Beskid Sądecki region. It had been found in late XIII c. Soon it was a royal city with a castle. The city was on one of the main trade routes between Poland and Hungary. In XVII c. it was one of the first places freed from the Swedish invasion of 1655-1660. Many cities were completely destroyed during this invasion and this event will be predominant through some of the stages.

The main sight are the ruins of a XIV c. Royal Castle. The castle was destroyed thrice. First time during the Swedish invasion in XVII c. 2nd time during the Bar Confederration in late XVIII c. Last time at the end of WW2. Other monuments include the St. Margherite basilica from early XIV c. remains of city walls and a reinassance Lubomirski family mansion.

Image
Remains of a royal castle in Nowy Sącz.

Image
Rynek (Market/Main Square), Nowy Sącz.

The first half of the stage is in Beskid Sądecki – part of the central Beskid mountains. The highest peak is Radziejowa at 1262m.

Image
Beskid Sądecki.

The only interesting thing in the first half is cat. 2 Przełęcz Huta. There are however two intermediate sprints in Krynica-Zdrój (just after the cat. 2) and Stary Sącz. Krynica-Zdrój is a major polish spa and winter resort. It saw a Tour de Pologne finish a couple of years ago. The spa was created during the Austrian reign of former Galicia in XIX c.

Next 40km from Krynica-Zdrój goes alongide the Poprad river on the Polish-Slovakian border. It's a popular spot for canoeing. This very curvy section starts from a spa town of Muszyna, which started as a Polish-Hungarian border fort in early XIV c. Later the fort was expanded to a local ducal palace – capital of a local "country" created by the Cracov's bishops after the king Władysław Jagiełło granted them the area in 1391. The town was transformed into a spa centre in early XX c.

Image
Castle ruins in Muszyna.

Image
Poprad valley near Muszyna, look at Slovakia. Looks not far from Switzerland... and i looove Switzerland

The race now meanders alongside the Poprad to the spa town of Piwniczna-Zdrój. Next on the route is Rytro. This village is home to a small fort/castle from late XIII c. The village is also home to a small ski station "Ryterski Raj" on Jastrzębia Góra. Since 2006 the Vyšehrad Marathon is finishing in Rytro.

Image
Ruins of a fort in Rytro.

9km from Rytro the race reaches Stary Sącz, where Poprad merges with the Dunajec river. Stary Sącz is roughly 10km south of Nowy Sącz. The town was founded in XIII c. thanks to duchess Kinga of Poland. She also founded the local Clares monastery in 1280 and a Franciscan monastery next to it. Thanks to the location on the mentioned previously polish-hungarian trade route it prospered as a trading center. The town was severly damaged in 1795 by a fire. Main sights include the Clares monastery from XII c. and a XVII c. home (now museum) – the only one to survive the 1795 fire.

Image
Clares Monastery in Stary Sącz.

After crossing Dunajec the race enters Beskid Wyspowy (Island Beskid). The name comes from isolated, individual peaks this mountain range is characterised by. The highest peak is Mogielnica at 1170m. The region is also popular with amateur cyclists, as it has many random muritos on sometimes narrow roads, which means positioning should be important.

Image
Ćwilin peak in Beskid Wyspowy.

First climb is cat. 3 Mokra Wieś. It's 3,5km at 4%, but it does include a short 10% section in the middle. Just after Mokra Wieś is a very tough part to Łukowica. I've decided to count it into a much longer and irregular ascent to Przełęcz Ostra. The part to Łukowica is 1,1km at over 8% with a 14% section near the end. The road looks new, so i guess it was recently surfaced. Łukowica is a quite old village dating back to at least XIII c. It's home to a small wooden church from XVII c. It's also a birthplace of Michał Sędziwój (Sendivogius Polonus), a major XVI/XVII c. doctor and alchemist, also recognized as one of the grandfathers of modern chemistry. Some rumours and scolars say he discovered oxygen in early XVII c. I doubt he was the first one to do so though.

Image
Climb to Łukowica.

Image
Wooden church of St. Andrew in Łukowica.

Just after Łukowica starts a narrow hill to Przysłop. It's 1,8km at 6,4% with a small part at the top at apparently 12%, even if for me it looks more than 15%. The descent to Młyńczyska is short (500m) but quite narrow and steep. After a short false-flat in Młyczyńska the stage finally enters the last part of Przełęcz Ostra, which is 2km at 6% with a small part at 12%. Overall, it's 13,5km at 3%, which is a cat. 1 mainly because of extreme irregularity with significant walls mixed in. The descent leads to Limanowa.

Limanowa was founded in XIV c. probably by German colonists. Just north of Limanowa is a small (relatively large for the region) Limanowa-Ski station. It's also birthplace to a certain Katarzyna Niewiadoma. Just after Limanowa, in an adjacent village of Sowliny is the feed zone.

Image
Limanowa.

After the feed zone starts the next climb of the day – Pasierbiec. It's the first proper murito with 1,8km at 8,5% (max 16% at the bottom). The race will go through a small plateau before descending down to Łososina Górna. Next climb is Rozdziele. It's the easiest side of this climb. It has a very nasty and extremely narrow east side on hormigón with the first 500m at 20% (max 23%). Sadly, i think it's just too narrow for any bike race. The south side is milder with 4,2km at 4,2%. The descent to Rozdziele is quite steep but wide.

Image
Wooden church in Rozdziele from XV c.

Next roughly 10km tackles two smaller, uncategorised climbs in Kamionka Mała. After that is the next categorised climb of Krosna. It's the first of a bunch of cat .1 muritos in the area. Krosna is 2,7km at very irregular 8,3%. It features steep walls up to over 20% followed by flase-flats. Krosna is featured in a local Galicia Cycling Marathon race. The climb features some decent views of Beskid Wyspowy.

Image
Profile of Krosna.

Image
Views from Krosna.

The descent from Krosna to the village of Kąty is wider, but also irregular and in some places very steep (short 20% section in Dobrociesz). The descent also includes a 3km false-flat. Next climb starts in Kąty and it's named either after Kąty, neighboring Sechna or a small hamlet near the top called Grabie. It's the toughest murito of this stage. It's 1,4m at 13% with the last 300m at 22%. The road is straight and narrow. At the top there's roughly 1km long plateau before the descent (max 16%) on a wider road to Sechna. The top is 35,5km from the finish line.

Image
Sechna.

Image
Views from Sechna.

Sechna is followed by another narrow climb to Kromolin Górny. This one is slightly longer and easier than Sechna, but still has a 0,5km section at 14% (max ~18%). The climb is 1,8km at 9% and it's the last cat. 1 of the stage and also the entire race. The descent to Michalczowa is quite tricky. It can be quite steep (max ~15%). The last 25km to Nowy Sącz are easier.

Next climb starts after a short flat run-in to Łososina Dolna and it's to a hamlet called Just. It sounds like an english name, but it comes from a supposed St. Just (it's just a myth), who was living on a local hill. Nowadays at the top of this hill is a small wooden church from XVII c. The church was built upon an earlier abbey, which was buried down by Arians (a religious group) in XVII c. The climb is on national route 75, so the road is wide and the traffic is heavy. Just is a very regular cat. 2 climb with 2km at 5,8%. The descent to Tęgoborze is slightly steeper and features two serpentines.

Image
Wooden church in Just.

Image
Serpentines on the descent from Just with Rożnowskie Lake in the background.

In Tęgoborze starts the last cat. 2 climb of the stage – Zawadka. It's a longish climb with 3,5km at 5,5%, but the last 300m are at 10%. The top is 16km from the finish line. A quite steep but mostly straight descent leeds to Chomranice, first mentioned in XIV c. In XVII c. it was a local aryan centre. In the village is a wooden church from XVII c.

Image
Profile of Zawadka.

Image
Zawadka near the top.

Image
Wooden church in Chromanice.

The last 15km to Nowy Sącz are basically flat but a small cat. 3 bump to Rdziostów. The climb is 1,4km at 6,4% (max 11%) and it's cat. 3. The descent to Chełmiec is wide but quite tricky. The last 6,5km to the finish line are flat.

The finish is in Nowy Sącz on the traditional Tour de Pologne finishing place on Beliny-Prażmowskiego street near the Gołąbkowice shopping center. The run-in is on Bulwar Narviku (Narvik Boulevard) and Kilińskiego street, but i excluded this random U-turn on Królowej Jadwigi street.

Image
Image
Finish in Nowy Sącz.

I guess a lot can happen on this stage. Considering it's just after Przehyba the fatigue could strike for less experienced riders (Pologne normally doesn't have a TdF roster). I guess Krosna, Sechna and Kromolin Górny in quick succession will force major splits, but they're 30km from the finish line, while the last 3 climbs are, compared to them, nothing special. I expect smaller 10-20 man groups with relatively large time splits. I guess such design should work better as an Ardennes inspired one-day race.

Next stage will focus on Kraków-Częstochowa Upland, also known as the Polish Jurassic Highland or Polish Jura (Jura Krakowsko-Częstochowska).

Added in:
Velolover2 wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:If we were able to include such stages in our potential Grand Départ, Im all for it. Would still be great with an easier stage as well... but as it stands, if we get the Tour start, Im afraid we are talking the same unsparing kind of stages as we saw in 2012 - apart from Storebæltsbroen which could be fun if windy.


Yeah, the most likely scenario:
Copenhagen prologue
Copenhagen..-Copenhagen
And then some stage from Copenhagen to a town in Zealand.

All flat of course. But even if the Tour should start in Norway or Sweden, the stages would be kinda flat too. It's not really about racing but the branding of the country's capital. ;)

Tour de France will do everything that's in their force to have the first 3 stages as flat and nonintrusive as possible. it's still better than what they were doing in the early 00's, when there were cases of entire 1st week filled with bunch sprints. It's not like i detest sprint stages (i personally have nothing against them), but at least have some variety. Try to mix them in with other type of stages and it's not like France doesn't have terrain for that.
railxmig
Member
 
Posts: 401
Joined: 19 Oct 2015 08:38

14 Apr 2018 21:27

Limanowa's actually a cross-sport hotspot in Poland - ski jumping world champion Maciej Kot ("Matt the Cat") and XC legend Justyna Kowalczyk are also locals as well as Kasia. But yes, it's definitely self-evident why Kasia's such a great climber given her physique, size and the terrain that she'll have grown up cycling. Kind of surprised you didn't include the Wysokie climb after Zawadka, though unless you can descend through the narrow road from Krasne Potockie to Klęczany that would lead into the Rdziostów climb, it would have to be the final climb and would probably kill the racing before that on the stage.
User avatar Libertine Seguros
Veteran
 
Posts: 19,597
Joined: 20 Feb 2010 11:54
Location: Land of Saíz

Re: Re:

14 Apr 2018 21:34

Gigs_98 wrote:
Red Rick wrote:Great tribute Gigs.

I imagine that you'll have less to work with especially for a Froome TdF tribute, as all his wins are localised in very concentrated area's.

True, I actually don't even know if I can make a proper froome tribute as I again don't want tomake a completely unbalanced mountain odyssey. I might have to make lots of stages without tributes. It's not that different than a nibali giro though

Italian geography is just always easier than French geography for stage design. And those victories in MSR, GdL, Tirreno and Trentino can all be part of it.
Veni, Vidi, Kirby

I came, I saw, I was dead wrong as per usual
User avatar Red Rick
Administrator
 
Posts: 14,865
Joined: 20 Feb 2012 18:15

14 Apr 2018 22:11

There's La Toussuire and Chamrousse from the Tour, Supergà and the Trofeo Melinda from his national triumph, Tre Valli Varesine, Krvavec, Passo Vršič from the Tour de Slovénie, Villach in Austria (also a stage win from the Tour de Slovénie), Passo della Bocchetta (he's won both the Giro dell'Apennino and a stage there on the execrable Giro di Padania)...
User avatar Libertine Seguros
Veteran
 
Posts: 19,597
Joined: 20 Feb 2010 11:54
Location: Land of Saíz

Re:

14 Apr 2018 22:40

Libertine Seguros wrote:Limanowa's actually a cross-sport hotspot in Poland - ski jumping world champion Maciej Kot ("Matt the Cat") and XC legend Justyna Kowalczyk are also locals as well as Kasia. But yes, it's definitely self-evident why Kasia's such a great climber given her physique, size and the terrain that she'll have grown up cycling. Kind of surprised you didn't include the Wysokie climb after Zawadka, though unless you can descend through the narrow road from Krasne Potockie to Klęczany that would lead into the Rdziostów climb, it would have to be the final climb and would probably kill the racing before that on the stage.

In my original draft i actually had Wysokie (from Męcina) but i decided to have an easier finale to hopefully give the previous muritos more punch. So this one was a design choice. I think maybe the original draft is still somewhere lost in the annals of history (this stage is very old, like over half a year old).

Wait... what?! I didn't know Maciej Kot is/was a world champion. Ok... i've did some short research and acually he has some golds in team competitions. Okay... i guess.
railxmig
Member
 
Posts: 401
Joined: 19 Oct 2015 08:38

Re:

14 Apr 2018 22:51

Libertine Seguros wrote:There's La Toussuire and Chamrousse from the Tour, Supergà and the Trofeo Melinda from his national triumph, Tre Valli Varesine, Krvavec, Passo Vršič from the Tour de Slovénie, Villach in Austria (also a stage win from the Tour de Slovénie), Passo della Bocchetta (he's won both the Giro dell'Apennino and a stage there on the execrable Giro di Padania)...

But most of those places are in the alps or at least in the notth of Italy. But covering the north of the country has never been a problem. Finding places in the south for the first week is much trickier
User avatar Gigs_98
Veteran
 
Posts: 6,543
Joined: 18 Feb 2015 18:36
Location: Austria

15 Apr 2018 05:11

Absolutely gorgeous stage you made there, railxmig. Makes me wanna visit Poland!

And yeah, you are right. Tour De France is still following the same formula of: at least 8 stages for the sprinters, 8 stages to the climbers + a few intermediate stages for the break. But as you mentioned, they have gotten a lot better in recent year and added at least a couple of stages for the classics riders.

Regrading the runestones, I think they are framed in glass to the fear of vandalism. It's funny how watching cycling gets you to appreciate historic artifacts and old architecture a lot more. I almost get hurt when I see an old building covered with random graffiti. :lol:
Velolover2
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,190
Joined: 12 Apr 2015 18:16

Re: Re:

15 Apr 2018 11:34

railxmig wrote:
Libertine Seguros wrote:Limanowa's actually a cross-sport hotspot in Poland - ski jumping world champion Maciej Kot ("Matt the Cat") and XC legend Justyna Kowalczyk are also locals as well as Kasia. But yes, it's definitely self-evident why Kasia's such a great climber given her physique, size and the terrain that she'll have grown up cycling. Kind of surprised you didn't include the Wysokie climb after Zawadka, though unless you can descend through the narrow road from Krasne Potockie to Klęczany that would lead into the Rdziostów climb, it would have to be the final climb and would probably kill the racing before that on the stage.

In my original draft i actually had Wysokie (from Męcina) but i decided to have an easier finale to hopefully give the previous muritos more punch. So this one was a design choice. I think maybe the original draft is still somewhere lost in the annals of history (this stage is very old, like over half a year old).

Wait... what?! I didn't know Maciej Kot is/was a world champion. Ok... i've did some short research and acually he has some golds in team competitions. Okay... i guess.

I don't think Kot should be counted as a world champ because his gold was with the team.
I think it's the sign of a clean rider and a real sportsman to be attracted to the bigger challenge over the ultimate result. Good luck with the Giro/Tour double, Chris Froome. -Phil Gaimon
Forever The Best
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,110
Joined: 15 Apr 2016 16:10

Re: Re:

15 Apr 2018 12:29

Forever The Best wrote:
railxmig wrote:
Libertine Seguros wrote:Limanowa's actually a cross-sport hotspot in Poland - ski jumping world champion Maciej Kot ("Matt the Cat") and XC legend Justyna Kowalczyk are also locals as well as Kasia. But yes, it's definitely self-evident why Kasia's such a great climber given her physique, size and the terrain that she'll have grown up cycling. Kind of surprised you didn't include the Wysokie climb after Zawadka, though unless you can descend through the narrow road from Krasne Potockie to Klęczany that would lead into the Rdziostów climb, it would have to be the final climb and would probably kill the racing before that on the stage.

In my original draft i actually had Wysokie (from Męcina) but i decided to have an easier finale to hopefully give the previous muritos more punch. So this one was a design choice. I think maybe the original draft is still somewhere lost in the annals of history (this stage is very old, like over half a year old).

Wait... what?! I didn't know Maciej Kot is/was a world champion. Ok... i've did some short research and acually he has some golds in team competitions. Okay... i guess.

I don't think Kot should be counted as a world champ because his gold was with the team.

I would argue that if you win a World Championship event, you can be called a World Champion. But perhaps because of the individual / team nature of it, you can argue perhaps I should have said "world championship-winning ski jumper Maciej Kot" rather than "world champion ski jumper Maciej Kot". The team events in ski jumping are much more established than say, the World Championships TTT in cycling, and more akin to a team pursuit track event, or the XC/biathlon relays. Kot played his role in that win well, in the first round he was the fourth highest individual scorer, after Kraft, Stoch and Wellinger, all of whom were the anchor jumpers for their teams.
User avatar Libertine Seguros
Veteran
 
Posts: 19,597
Joined: 20 Feb 2010 11:54
Location: Land of Saíz

Re: Race Design Thread

15 Apr 2018 13:14

Across Jutland, Stage 5: Kolding-Aabenraa, 164 km

Image

After having tried to make a mini-Roubaix (Stage 2), a solid hilly route (stage 3) and a mini-Ardennes classic (stage 4), I'm going for a mini-Ronde this time. As in the stage from Viborg to Brande, the cobblestones are replaced by dirt roads but it will also feature a real pavé and even a cobbled hellingen within the last 10k of the race.

Today's stage is the shortest but by far not the easiest. I even consider it the queen stage. It will start in Kolding (a large town with a population of 60,000) in front of a castle called "Koldinghus". Having existed for more than 700 years, Koldinghus has played a significant role in Denmark's history: as a border guard, as a royal residence, as the seat of local government administration.

After the disaster fire in 1808 (one of the most famous fires in Danish history), the castle ruins attracted much attention as a picturesque ruin, as an inspiration source for painters and poets. For more than 100 years, the ruins have been the subject of restoration, gradual transformation into a museum and home of many cultural activities.

Image
Koldinghus from a drone shot.

Image
The ruined courtyard is large enough to be the starting point of stage 5.

After a trip through Kolding and a few lumps with shallow slopes, the first gravel sector with the odd name of Kotrappegyden (The Cow Stairway Alley?) will be tackled. There are in total nine gravel tracks covering almost a sixth of the entire route. The longest which I named "The Grand Sector" is more than 5k long.

1. Kotrappegyden (++, 1400 m, Km 20.7)
2. Nedersø (+++, 2500 m, Km 35.7)
3. Hennekesdamvej (+++, 2200 m, Km 40.1)
4. Sector 6 (++++, 4400 m, Km 58.7)
5. Kongestien (+++, 2200 m, Km 74.4),
6. Sector 4 (+++, 2600 m, Km 91.2),
7. Knavvej (+, 500 m, Km 121.6)
8. Kjelderhave (++, 1500 m, Km 133.3)
10. The Grand Sector (+++++, 5500 m, Km 147.2)

Image
Knavvej. An easy, short sector. It's very broad, straight, earthy and without pebbles & holes.

The only sprint in Christiansfeld comes about halfway through the stage. A cozy village known from it's idyllic architecture and popular gingerbreads.

Image
Christiansfeld is famous for it's heart-shaped gingerbreads ("Honingkager" as the sign indicates).

Before reaching the last deciding 50 kilometers starting in Haderslev town center, a couple of straightforward lumps are done (Hjelsmindebakken - 850 m, 4.7% + Christian X's Vej - 1000 m, 4.7%) are done.

Image
Haderslev town square.

The Haderslev pavé is about 700 m (ranked 2.5 out of 5). The cobbles aren't really that difficult but the elevation is challenging. There are some odd 10% pitches and downhill parts.

Image
Højgade (only 100 m at 10%). A part of the Haderslev pavé.

Like in Ronde Van Vlaanderen, there are some final steep climbs in the final. First Sønder Havvej (about 500 m at 10.4%) and then later the demanding Hjarupvej, another 0.5 k climb at 10% just 11 kilometers from the finish line. Hjarupvej is a perfect hill to lauch an attack since the first one on top will be awarded with 5 bonus seconds (The Silver Kilometer).

The second Silver Kilometer is on top of Denmark's only real berg: Dimen. An uphill Molenberg-like "berg" with extremely uneven cobbles located just 6.5 km from the final in Aabenraa.

Image
These dinosaur spots are large and placed far from each other. The hill is 650 m at 6.2% but the cobbled sector of the climb is 300 m at 8.8%. Credits to danskebjerge.dk for the picture.

After Dimen, there is another punchy 650 m ramp (the first half is more than 10%). Then it's is downhill all the way to the last k (which is flat) in Aabenraa.

Image
The entire stage is on narrow roads but the final K in Aabenraa will be on wider roads inspired by De Ronde-finish but in a more costal location. It is placed in the middle of the big harbor.
Velolover2
Senior Member
 
Posts: 3,190
Joined: 12 Apr 2015 18:16

Re: Re:

15 Apr 2018 18:43

Libertine Seguros wrote:
Forever The Best wrote:
railxmig wrote:
Libertine Seguros wrote:Limanowa's actually a cross-sport hotspot in Poland - ski jumping world champion Maciej Kot ("Matt the Cat") and XC legend Justyna Kowalczyk are also locals as well as Kasia. But yes, it's definitely self-evident why Kasia's such a great climber given her physique, size and the terrain that she'll have grown up cycling. Kind of surprised you didn't include the Wysokie climb after Zawadka, though unless you can descend through the narrow road from Krasne Potockie to Klęczany that would lead into the Rdziostów climb, it would have to be the final climb and would probably kill the racing before that on the stage.

In my original draft i actually had Wysokie (from Męcina) but i decided to have an easier finale to hopefully give the previous muritos more punch. So this one was a design choice. I think maybe the original draft is still somewhere lost in the annals of history (this stage is very old, like over half a year old).

Wait... what?! I didn't know Maciej Kot is/was a world champion. Ok... i've did some short research and acually he has some golds in team competitions. Okay... i guess.

I don't think Kot should be counted as a world champ because his gold was with the team.

I would argue that if you win a World Championship event, you can be called a World Champion. But perhaps because of the individual / team nature of it, you can argue perhaps I should have said "world championship-winning ski jumper Maciej Kot" rather than "world champion ski jumper Maciej Kot". The team events in ski jumping are much more established than say, the World Championships TTT in cycling, and more akin to a team pursuit track event, or the XC/biathlon relays. Kot played his role in that win well, in the first round he was the fourth highest individual scorer, after Kraft, Stoch and Wellinger, all of whom were the anchor jumpers for their teams.
I would use the world championship winning ski jumper for Kot but it depends from person to person ofc and you have a point.

Great races and stages by all here btw.
I think it's the sign of a clean rider and a real sportsman to be attracted to the bigger challenge over the ultimate result. Good luck with the Giro/Tour double, Chris Froome. -Phil Gaimon
Forever The Best
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2,110
Joined: 15 Apr 2016 16:10

15 Apr 2018 18:57

Hey, Velolover2, why aren't you a member of the DCU? Of course the fact that you're Norwegian - and therefore not Danish - might be a reason, but still; those suggestions up there are much better ideas for a Danish Grand Depart than letting Copenhagen have all the fun!
I'm partial to the one starting in Århus, but that's because I'm biased.
Aka The Ginger One.
User avatar RedheadDane
Veteran
 
Posts: 9,581
Joined: 05 May 2010 13:47
Location: Viking Land! (Aros)

PreviousNext

Return to Professional road racing

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: hammerthaim and 32 guests

Back to top