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Race Design Thread

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Re: Re:

02 Oct 2017 11:12

gregrowlerson wrote:
But why the rest day after stage 6?


Haza del Lino to Porto is a transfer of 900 kilometers.
Max Rockatansky
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Re: Re:

02 Oct 2017 11:23

Max Rockatansky wrote:
gregrowlerson wrote:
But why the rest day after stage 6?


Haza del Lino to Porto is a transfer of 900 kilometers.


Fair enough. I live in Australia. 900 kms is really not all that far :D

LS talks about making routes that could be realistically used though. Would the Vuelta ever consider a rest day on the second Saturday? I don't know, maybe this has already been done before?
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Re: Re:

02 Oct 2017 11:29

gregrowlerson wrote:
Max Rockatansky wrote:
gregrowlerson wrote:
But why the rest day after stage 6?


Haza del Lino to Porto is a transfer of 900 kilometers.


Fair enough. I live in Australia. 900 kms is really not all that far :D

LS talks about making routes that could be realistically used though. Would the Vuelta ever consider a rest day on the second Saturday? I don't know, maybe this has already been done before?


The route had rest days after stage 6 and 15. That is on a Friday and a Monday. The last transfer is between the finish at Banos di Panticosa at stage 15 and the start at stage 16 at Lograno.
OlavEH
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04 Oct 2017 10:37

Ask this question one more time:

Is there some kind of "sterrato feature" either at Cronoescalada or La Flamme Rouge? I'm certain I've seen some indication on sterrato on some of the routes posted in this thread.
OlavEH
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Re:

08 Oct 2017 12:10

OlavEH wrote:Ask this question one more time:

Is there some kind of "sterrato feature" either at Cronoescalada or La Flamme Rouge? I'm certain I've seen some indication on sterrato on some of the routes posted in this thread.

Don't know about at LFR, but there isn't to my knowledge at Cronoescalada on the full course profile function; others may have used different ways to denote sterrato sections but I have used converting the relevant section of profile to grayscale so that they stand out against the rest of the course, or using the cobbles image over blank place names as they do at Lasterketa Burua. However, when editing profiles for individual climbs that you've mapped at cronoescalada, you can put in features like sterrato, hormigón or cobbles.

Tip: if putting in multiple cobbled stretches and using the image/icon for these à la Lasterketa Burua, if you switch to Vuelta mode and then update to Vuelta 2016 style, you can put in more than ten intermediate checkpoint towns (under Giro, Tour and Vuelta 2015 styles you can only put in ten towns, but as many climbs as you like), so you can add in several stretches of cobbles or sterrato as well as keeping towns for intermediate sprints etc. on the route. Then, when you switch to your preferred view, you get to keep all of the additional checkpoints. However, it's also worth noting that if you edit the profile further, however, additional locations from 11 up will disappear.
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08 Oct 2017 19:11

That's a nice and useful tip, LS. If I knew that before, I didn't have to merge profiles in MS Paint (like I did for 2 of my Giro stages).
anonymous_1
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08 Oct 2017 22:18

Toblach/Dobbiaco WC RR; 16.52km per lap
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Ok, I've decided to create a WC route really close to home, Toblach is the next village after Innichen/San Candido, it's only 4km away.
let's start with an over the top ridiciulous premise: I've won the lottery/become filthy rich or I've been able to convinve our local oligarch to invest some money into cycling.
I've choosen Toblach because it's already a well known winter sports location that all the XC Skiing fans know because of the Tour the Ski and compared to my hometown it's probably a better location for an event like this one. There are also a ton of hotels in the Upper Puster Valley ad with the summer season ending a few weeks before the start of the race accomodating all the teams and media in the various hotels shouldn't be a problem.
Let's take a look at the various routes:

Men's Elite: 16 laps, 264.3km
Men's U23: 11 laps, 181.7km
Mens Junior: 9 laps, 148.7km
Women's Elite: 10 laps, 165.2km
Women's Junior: 7 laps 115.6km

Let's take a look at the circuit:
The race starts and ends near the stunning Grand Hotel, fans of classical music might know that Gustav Maler loved this Hotel and Toblach, it's also known for hosting the Gustav Maler Wochen, a big classical music fesival.
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Right after the start the riders will enter the main road an ride westwards unil they reach Niederdorf/Villabassa, there's a sharp right turn right in the iddle of the Village. After 1.6km of slightly uphill false flat the first climb of the circuit starts, a small road up to Aufkirchen, 1.1km at 9.4% with a section at over 18%. As you can see the road is narrow and the left side of the road is really exposed to the westwind that is often blowing in the Upper Puster Valley, both Toblach and Innichen are known to be rather windy (at least for our standarts).
Auffkirchen (the climb is right behind that line of trees):
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The following descent isn't really technical, rather gentle and will bring the riders down to the center of Toblach, there's even a very short section on gentle urban cobbles.
The 2nd climb of the cicuit starts right after it, it's the Haselsberg from Toblach, 1.9km at 4.4%, then a km of false flat and a 300m long, 8.7% steep ramp right before the descent. Most of the road is rather narrow, but with everyone riding the same direction that shouldn't be a problem (it can be a bit problematic on a normal ride, you have to be careful, you could meet a car behind every single corner, when there's too much traffic down in the valley many locals use this road to avoid the traffic and if you're riding your bike on the same road that can be rather unpleasant).
The following descent is narrow, steep (it's a nice murito, 1.2km at 13.6%, one of my favourite short training climbs) and will bring the riders past Castel Aquarone (yes, that's the actual name of the castel, but I don't think that the noble Aquarone family is related to that Aquarone), so the short ramp and the following descent are perfect for a late attack from a reduced group.
Another great thing about this descent is that I could pretty much watch the race while working on my family's fields, that would be pretty awesome.
The final 4.6km are mostly false flat and the first 3.6km take place on the wide main road, then the riders will enter the Pista Ciclabile, they'll ride on an unerpass and right after it there's a sharp right turn and a really short uphill ramp, nothing special.
Then the riders will ride past Toblach's district heating and with about 400m to go there's a last short uphill section, then the riders will enter the Park of the Grand Hotel.
Every single lap features about 277m of altitude gain, so the Men's Elite RR will feature around 4430m of altitude gain, the whol circuit is hard but not as hard as nnsbruck, it's not a WC just for the pure climbers, we should get a worthy winner.
Toblach:
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Last edited by Mayomaniac on 09 Oct 2017 19:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Race Design Thread

09 Oct 2017 17:15

Maybe in the future i will use this idea, but it's doubtful, so i decided to just post this idea, as i find it interesting. I feel in this day and age the other possible Champs-Élysées replacement is it's Versailles equivalent - Avenue de Paris. What i find interesting in this option is the aproximity to some hills south of the city. I created a potential 17,5km long lap using some of the hills (mainly Côte des Metz - 1,5km at 5,5% with a short >10% part) 7,5km from the finish line. I doubt it would change the normal sprint outcome, but at least the stage itself would be a bit more interesting. Of course the number of laps is interchangeable.
https://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/maps/viewtrack/hd/160667
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Sadly, this lap is quite bad, and it also uses an A86 and N12 (extention of A86) exit. As for the features outside of Versailles i decided to have the start on Champs-Élysées, km 0 in front of Eiffel Tower and a cat. 3 hill to the Meudon observatory.
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A tough section on Côte des Metz.
railxmig
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09 Oct 2017 17:23

It could be an OGRR '24 proposal.
Goodbye, Tommeke; thank you for all you have given us!
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Re: Race Design Thread

09 Oct 2017 19:19

railxmig wrote:Maybe in the future i will use this idea, but it's doubtful, so i decided to just post this idea, as i find it interesting. I feel in this day and age the other possible Champs-Élysées replacement is it's Versailles equivalent - Avenue de Paris. What i find interesting in this option is the aproximity to some hills south of the city. I created a potential 17,5km long lap using some of the hills (mainly Côte des Metz - 1,5km at 5,5% with a short >10% part) 7,5km from the finish line. I doubt it would change the normal sprint outcome, but at least the stage itself would be a bit more interesting. Of course the number of laps is interchangeable.
https://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/maps/viewtrack/hd/160667
Image
Image

Sadly, this lap is quite bad, and it also uses an A86 and N12 (extention of A86) exit. As for the features outside of Versailles i decided to have the start on Champs-Élysées, km 0 in front of Eiffel Tower and a cat. 3 hill to the Meudon observatory.
Image
A tough section on Côte des Metz.
Thank you for reminding me my Paris holiday and looking at places from the Google map. :lol:

@OlavEH Flamme Rouge has cobble and gravel roads feature as well.
I think it's the sign of a clean rider and a real sportsman to be attracted to the bigger challenge over the ultimate result. Good luck with the Giro/Tour double, Chris Froome. -Phil Gaimon
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09 Oct 2017 19:27

I can't believe I never thought about Toblach for WCRR! Amazing.
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09 Oct 2017 19:45

Wouldn't that Toblach circuit be better the other way around? Now you have a pretty steep and dangerous descent.
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Re:

09 Oct 2017 19:53

anonymous_1 wrote:Wouldn't that Toblach circuit be better the other way around? Now you have a pretty steep and dangerous descent.

You'd need to repave it, but It's not that dangerous, the steep climb to Aufkirchen would also become a descent on a narrow road, it's not a technical descent, but with all those deciduous trees and bushes near the road you could also have fallen leaves on the road, that + rain could e pretty bad.
I thought about doing the circuit reverse, but the first climb would be almost too hard, 16 x 1.2km at 13.6% would be pretty nasty and you'd probably have to deal with a headwind on the 2nd climb that would hinder attacks on the 2nd half of the circuit, it's pretty much always a headwind on that climb (the first part of the Ratsberg climb until you reach Aufkirchen).
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10 Oct 2017 18:20

You could have a run-in from Brixen, with two clims: Issengo/Issing (from Chienes/Kiens) and the climb to Novale vrom Valdaora/Olang. An alternative is the climb on the road 'Goste', of which Google Maps doesn't give a name near the top (it is near the Golserhof hotel/guest house). The overall run-in would be about 60km before joining the circuit at Niederdorf.
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Re:

10 Oct 2017 18:58

anonymous_1 wrote:You could have a run-in from Brixen, with two clims: Issengo/Issing (from Chienes/Kiens) and the climb to Novale vrom Valdaora/Olang. An alternative is the climb on the road 'Goste', of which Google Maps doesn't give a name near the top (it is near the Golserhof hotel/guest house). The overall run-in would be about 60km before joining the circuit at Niederdorf.

Yes, the road is actually called Goste like the hotel, you'd really need to repave the road. I wanted to have the race only on the circuit, but a start in Brixen would be pretty interesting, A start in Cortina or Auronzo with the climb to Misurina early on before descending down to Schluderbach/Carbonin and joining the circuit at the start in Toblach would also be an option, but that would incluse a long climb and make the race even harder.
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10 Oct 2017 19:10

I have thought of Toblach as a great stage 20 arrive town after Giau-Tre Croci combo. Interesting parcours for a WC.
I think it's the sign of a clean rider and a real sportsman to be attracted to the bigger challenge over the ultimate result. Good luck with the Giro/Tour double, Chris Froome. -Phil Gaimon
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Re: Re:

10 Oct 2017 19:40

@Mayomaniac
The Novale climb is doable? (I just checked very few points on the road with Streetview)
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Re: Re:

10 Oct 2017 20:19

anonymous_1 wrote:@Mayomaniac
The Novale climb is doable? (I just checked very few points on the road with Streetview)

Yes, you'd have to repave a few parts because of rather poor road conditions, but other than that it wouldn't be a problem. The whole Pustertal is filled with short, steep climbs on secondary roads, you could create some crazy hard routes and Giro stages.
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Re: Race Design Thread

14 Oct 2017 22:29

GIRO D'ITALIA

(Tue) stage 9: Grosseto - Arezzo, 153 km

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The second week begins with a flattish stage across Toscana. There are two sterrato sectors. The first one has been included mainly for touristic purposes and is 10 km long.

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The second one is more interesting as it is located close to the finish. The sector is 7,8 km long and completely flat. There are a couple of bends though, which will make it complicated for the sprint trains.

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From the end of the strade bianche there are 11 km left to race. The finale in Arezzo is identical to the Tirreno-Adriatico stages in 2014 and 2015, won by Sagan and van Avermaet respectively. The final kilometer is uphill (at 5%) with a few cobbles as well.

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Grosseto
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Arezzo
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17 Oct 2017 18:27

I'll start posting my Giro that only takes place on the Islands, the south and Central Italy, one stage ends in Spoleto, but we never go further north.
I'll keep the stage descriptions rather short.
Stage 1: Olbia ITT; 12km
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The first stage is a short opening ITT, every week will start with an ITT, not very technical, the speeds should be pretty high and it should be perfect for a specialist like Rohan Dennis.
Olbia:
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