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He's coming home!!!! Alejandro Valverde comeback thread.

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

Moderators: Irondan, Eshnar, Red Rick, Pricey_sky, Tonton, King Boonen, Valv.Piti

What will Valverde's impact be the cycling world in 2012

Storm
196
19%
Snow Storm
189
18%
Desert Storm
180
18%
Tornado
202
20%
Nuclear Holocoust
255
25%
 
Total votes : 1022

23 Apr 2018 22:12

How long have some of you folks been on this forum? Can't believe you lot still let El Pisti rile you up. Bala could win all 5 monumemts and all 3 grand tours in a season and Pisti still would not have a good word to say about Him.
Eli
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Re:

23 Apr 2018 22:17

Eli wrote:How long have some of you folks been on this forum? Can't believe you lot still let El Pisti rile you up. Bala could win all 5 monumemts and all 3 grand tours in a season and Pisti still would not have a good word to say about Him.


You're right. For me I've only been here for a few months. I have to keep reminding myself to ignore him. Doesn't always work.
User avatar Koronin
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Re:

23 Apr 2018 23:04

Eli wrote:How long have some of you folks been on this forum? Can't believe you lot still let El Pisti rile you up. Bala could win all 5 monumemts and all 3 grand tours in a season and Pisti still would not have a good word to say about Him.

Because such a feat would only be possible on a motorbike lol. What good is there to say of someone with his past? Y'all treat him like a hero when he's obviously anything but. Some of you were claiming he came back stronger than ever after his crash last year... he's not a god damn saiyan lol. Funnily enough those same people are now using his crash last year as an excuse for why he wasn't good enough in the Ardennes this year... hypocrites. You also don't have to capitalize the H in "him", he's not a God lol.
User avatar El Pistolero
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Re: Re:

23 Apr 2018 23:20

Koronin wrote:
Zinoviev Letter wrote:
Koronin wrote:They've lost too many good riders over the past two years. A mass exodus from the team which is very unusual for them. Thus leading to believe there are some major problems at that team right now. Unfortunately it's also screwing Valverde out of some major history which is the worst part.

Yes he may have come back at too high of a level of form too soon, which is likely, esp since he said he was cramping from about the halfway point of the race. He can fix this for next year. What he can't fix is the disaster this team is turning into right now.


The issue is reasonably straightforward: you can’t pay three very expensive leaders and a quality cadre of support riders and prospects unless you have a huge budget. They spent their high end domestique money on Landa.

As for whether Valverde can get back to his Spring 2017 level, maybe, but time gets everyone in the end. 39 is old. That fact also helps explain why they would spend so much of their money on an otherwise extraneous young Spanish leader.


He's not 39. He turns 38 in a couple of days. He'll turn 39 NEXT April.


Yes, I know. He will be just a few days short of 39 during the next Ardennes week, which is what I was talking about.
Zinoviev Letter
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Re: He's coming home!!!! Alejandro Valverde comeback thread.

24 Apr 2018 00:13

Mod hat on...and dead serious...

Personal attacks and doping talks (both chemical or mechanical) are strictly forbidden here.

New members, read the rules please. Older members, behave.

Please. Thanks.
User avatar Tonton
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Re:

24 Apr 2018 07:35

Eli wrote:How long have some of you folks been on this forum? Can't believe you lot still let El Pisti rile you up. Bala could win all 5 monumemts and all 3 grand tours in a season and Pisti still would not have a good word to say about Him.


I'm not riled up, just amused/confused by this constant changing around of what's considered a big race.

And for the record, I don't see Valverde as a hero, I just see him as a regular bike rider who is sometimes good, sometimes bad.
However, what I don't see any reason to either is painting him as a villain. In fact there are very few professional bike riders I see any reason to paint as a villain, would probably have to murder someone for that to happen...

Valverde may not have come back stronger than ever after his crash, but he certainly came back stronger than expected! Understandably, since it was feared that he wouldn't be able to come back.
Aka The Ginger One.
User avatar RedheadDane
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Re: Re:

24 Apr 2018 20:55

RedheadDane wrote:
Eli wrote:How long have some of you folks been on this forum? Can't believe you lot still let El Pisti rile you up. Bala could win all 5 monumemts and all 3 grand tours in a season and Pisti still would not have a good word to say about Him.


I'm not riled up, just amused/confused by this constant changing around of what's considered a big race.

And for the record, I don't see Valverde as a hero, I just see him as a regular bike rider who is sometimes good, sometimes bad.
However, what I don't see any reason to either is painting him as a villain. In fact there are very few professional bike riders I see any reason to paint as a villain, would probably have to murder someone for that to happen...

Valverde may not have come back stronger than ever after his crash, but he certainly came back stronger than expected! Understandably, since it was feared that he wouldn't be able to come back.


I think this is the big thing. There were question as to rather he could even come back at all. Even with what he and his friends where saying during the fall it was hard to believe until he actually started racing again. He did come back stronger than anyone would have expected.
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Re: Re:

25 Apr 2018 11:53

Koronin wrote:
RedheadDane wrote:
Eli wrote:How long have some of you folks been on this forum? Can't believe you lot still let El Pisti rile you up. Bala could win all 5 monumemts and all 3 grand tours in a season and Pisti still would not have a good word to say about Him.


I'm not riled up, just amused/confused by this constant changing around of what's considered a big race.

And for the record, I don't see Valverde as a hero, I just see him as a regular bike rider who is sometimes good, sometimes bad.
However, what I don't see any reason to either is painting him as a villain. In fact there are very few professional bike riders I see any reason to paint as a villain, would probably have to murder someone for that to happen...

Valverde may not have come back stronger than ever after his crash, but he certainly came back stronger than expected! Understandably, since it was feared that he wouldn't be able to come back.


I think this is the big thing. There were question as to rather he could even come back at all. Even with what he and his friends where saying during the fall it was hard to believe until he actually started racing again. He did come back stronger than anyone would have expected.


It's worth to admire. Crystal clear.
toolittle
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Re: Re:

25 Apr 2018 12:16

Just to make it clear.
Lots of comment about Valverde multiple WC / Olympic Race podium could be summed up be more successful than someone such as Peter Sagan, Nibali etc.

There are different point of views to evaluate him.
1.
Oh, Valverde are so consisent and always comes close in those most important races (WCRR/TDF/ORR/PR)
He has a Veulta and 4 LBL (important great races but behind those.)
Then, he won a lot of WT / HC races.
He is productive rider with a lot of wins.
Conclusion is that he is greatest, even Nibali and Sagan are left behind.

2.
Well, he is great.
See he is productive winner. Won a lot great races.
But...
When come to most important races, he was appointed as team leader of one of strongest team.
(You knows, golden decade spain team are crazy strong.)
Over so many years, more than 10 editions of WC/OR could fit his ability perfectly. Some of editions are within his strike range.
With support of a strong team, he comes close. But no win.
Some may consider the true is that : "When strongest guys from different fields with best preparation, Valverde will come be one of the best and beaten by the best.

So, I admire Valverde is great. Very close to greatest and just half step behind.
Last edited by toolittle on 25 Apr 2018 12:51, edited 2 times in total.
toolittle
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Re: Re:

25 Apr 2018 12:36

toolittle wrote:Just to make it clear.
Lots of comment about Valverde multiple WC / Olympic Race podium could be summed up be more successful than someone such as Peter Sagan, Nibali etc.

There are different point of views to evaluate him.
1.
Oh, Valverde are so consisent and always comes close in those most important races (WCRR/TDF/ORR/PR)
He has a Veulta and 4 LBL (A little be less important great races)
Then, he won a lot of WT / HC races.
He is productive rider with a lot of wins.
Conclusion is that he is greatest, even Nibali and Sagan are left behind.

2.
Well, he is great.
See he is productive winners. Win a lot great races.
But...
When come to most important races, he was appointed as team leader of one of strongest team.
(You knows, golden decade spain team are crazy strong.)
Over so many years, more than 10 editions of WC/OR could fit his ability perfectly. Some of editions are within his strike range.
With support of a strong team, he comes close. But no win.
Some may consider the true is that : "When strongest guys from different fields with best preparation, Valverde will come be one of the best and beaten by the best.

So, I admire Valverde is great. Very close to greatest and just half step behind.


Paolo Bettini won't let italian disappointing. Óscar Freire strike the red point when the target is big.
When Mark Cavendish in good from TDF stages and WC is easy win.

Following these guy... Cadel Evans and Vino are with quite similar abilities as Valverde. Both won less races.

Cadel Evans hit highest points twice.. TDF and WC. More importantly, UCI has never restrict him from racing during the dark period. This is the most prestigious and respectful thing.
toolittle
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Re: Re:

25 Apr 2018 12:46

Vino... well, his Olympic is a career high win. Apart from that an Veulta, he has only 2 LBL... Hard to decide between Vino and Valverde.


Bradley Wiggins... most of his career is for Track and TT. But somehow, he won TDF once.
Transformation is very hard... How many stage races has been won by him if he only focus in something like paris nice? With his TT ability, how many week long stage races could be recorded in his belt?

His hour record is a measurement of human race effort over a hour under a control environment. You could peak yourself anytime and any date to challenge.
No one could come close. Fabian Cancellera surrendered.
This is an important figure for cycling endurance race. He marked a number there.

Hard to say that he is not greatest.
toolittle
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Re: Re:

25 Apr 2018 13:35

toolittle wrote:Vino... well, his Olympic is a career high win. Apart from that an Veulta, he has only 2 LBL... Hard to decide between Vino and Valverde.


Bradley Wiggins... most of his career is for Track and TT. But somehow, he won TDF once.
Transformation is very hard... How many stage races has been won by him if he only focus in something like paris nice? With his TT ability, how many week long stage races could be recorded in his belt?

His hour record is a measurement of human race effort over a hour under a control environment. You could peak yourself anytime and any date to challenge.
No one could come close. Fabian Cancellera surrendered.
This is an important figure for cycling endurance race. He marked a number there.

Hard to say that he is not greatest.


No. It's hard to say he's even close to the greatest.

Valverde on the other hand is one of the greats. He's the reference point for the peloton in the last 10 years at least. Teams decide their tactics based on the fact whether he races or not. Only a handful of riders in a generation deserve such recognition. Valverde is one of them, alongside Bettini, Contador, Boonen, Cancellara, Sagan (and Froome).

Wiggins was one of the greats for only a year.
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25 Apr 2018 13:37

Wiggins? Seriously? I'm not even sure Pisti rates Wiggins over Valverde
Veni, Vidi, Kirby

I came, I saw, I was dead wrong as per usual
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25 Apr 2018 17:36

Cyclists that were or are active in the 21st century that are better than Valverde: Lance Armstrong, Johan Museeuw, Paoli Bettini, Tom Boonen, Fabian Cancellara, Alberto Contador, Vincenzo Nibali and Peter Sagan. Gilbert is close, but his crappy years at BMC aren't easily forgotten. I'd say Froome too, but he'll probably lose his Vuelta win (which would push Nibali to 8 big wins).
User avatar El Pistolero
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Re: Re:

25 Apr 2018 18:05

RedheadDane wrote:
Eli wrote:How long have some of you folks been on this forum? Can't believe you lot still let El Pisti rile you up. Bala could win all 5 monumemts and all 3 grand tours in a season and Pisti still would not have a good word to say about Him.


I'm not riled up, just amused/confused by this constant changing around of what's considered a big race.

Agreed, it is amusing at times and also one the dumber arguments that happens around here. It's all just individual opinion and half the time it's based on whatever rider someone wants to uplift or downgrade. There is no real hierarchy of races other than the broad classifications and whatever silly ranking or classification a fan comes up with doesn't mean a damn thing to anyone but themselves and it certainly doesn't mean anything to the riders.

As for Pisti, he doesn't have to ever say anything nice about Valverde no matter what he does - he doesn't like the guy, which is perfectly fine. The difference with Pisti is that he can't stand that other people like him and cheer his accomplishments. Most of us don't constantly go to the threads of riders we don't like just to trash them.
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Re: Re:

25 Apr 2018 18:14

Blanco wrote:
toolittle wrote:Vino... well, his Olympic is a career high win. Apart from that an Veulta, he has only 2 LBL... Hard to decide between Vino and Valverde.


Bradley Wiggins... most of his career is for Track and TT. But somehow, he won TDF once.
Transformation is very hard... How many stage races has been won by him if he only focus in something like paris nice? With his TT ability, how many week long stage races could be recorded in his belt?

His hour record is a measurement of human race effort over a hour under a control environment. You could peak yourself anytime and any date to challenge.
No one could come close. Fabian Cancellera surrendered.
This is an important figure for cycling endurance race. He marked a number there.

Hard to say that he is not greatest.


No. It's hard to say he's even close to the greatest.

Valverde on the other hand is one of the greats. He's the reference point for the peloton in the last 10 years at least. Teams decide their tactics based on the fact whether he races or not. Only a handful of riders in a generation deserve such recognition. Valverde is one of them, alongside Bettini, Contador, Boonen, Cancellara, Sagan (and Froome).

Wiggins was one of the greats for only a year.


This. Valverde is a reference point for the peloton. No matter what race it is that he shows up to he's a favorite. I mean in 2016 he was on the start line of the Vuelta, which was his 3rd GT of the season and was not the race leader, yet fans AND riders had him listed as one of the favorites to at least podium if not actually win it. Yet there's not another GC rider in the peloton that even seems interested in attempting all 3 GTs in one season. Alaphilippe said a year or two ago that Valverde is his reference point. That he measures how much he's improved and how much more he needs to improved based on his racing against Valverde.
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25 Apr 2018 18:38

Happy Birthday, Alejandro!
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Re:

26 Apr 2018 15:07

Red Rick wrote:Wiggins? Seriously? I'm not even sure Pisti rates Wiggins over Valverde


Peoples are always view things differently.

Bradley Wiggins careeer is extra-ordinary. Not as many people joined road race so late but still succeed. Not so many people transform from Track/MTB/CX then road and then back to Track/MTB/CX are still in the top of the worlds in 3 sections of careers.

I think I shouldn't talked too much about Wiggins inside Valverde threa. Just a reply there and I will stop.

My evaluation of Bradley Wiggins

He started from Track cycling. He won pursuits and madisons within Velodrome and end his career inside velodrome with olympic 4 olympic gold medals and 7 world championship titles. (Inside Track only)

He turned his attention to road after 2008 Olympic when he was 29 and came back to Track again when he was 34 @ 2014 seasons end.

Within these 5 years, he completed 2 transformations : from Track and then to Track.
He won 4 x WT Stages races and 1 TDF. Podium in Veulta. 1 x Olympic TT and 1 x WCTT under the completion with Tony Martin and Fabian Cancellera.

At 2015, he marked hours record as 54.5km when he was 35. No one could come close.

Within last 2 decades, not that much people could have similar success within 5 years of completion. If you think transformation must take 1 year at least. Wiggins real career in road completion is only 3 years.

Let take 5 of best years from Valverde career, you could see how good Wiggins done.
Wiggins is a king but with 14 crowns.
Valverde is a king without any crown.

Youtube records most of the racing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYm2ECRk8R4&t=237s
This is a kind of hilly classic king winning... Check out others. For example simon gerrans and Valverde.
toolittle
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26 Apr 2018 18:33

What is this bashing of Vino a few posts up? People who dispute him as the greatest cyclist of all time are heretics and ought to be treated as such. Mods? ban these infidels.
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26 Apr 2018 20:04

Aye, both Vino and Pantani are clearly above Valverde, even if El Pistolero disagrees.
Goodbye, Tommeke; thank you for all you have given us!
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