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Jakob Fuglsang discussion thread

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Re: Re:

17 Jun 2018 17:01

The_Beach wrote:
Broccolidwarf wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:When has Fuglsang become a good descender? He has always been pretty cautious, at least the last couple of years - stuck in 2010 like his good time trial?


He's always been a good decender, because of his mountain bike background (he was U23 world champ)

Countless times as a domestique, he's been dropped ahead of the summit, and made it back up to Nibali on the decent, and as late as last years tour and dauphine, you saw him make up time on decents.

And cautious? - Dude, he made up time going down 2 big mountains last year, after getting dropped going up (due to breaking his back and wrist the day before)......... because of the broken wrist, he was forced to decend one-handed..... and still made up time - "Caution" indeed :lol:

So I don't quite know where you get the idea from, that he is not a good decender?

- He's always been considered one of the best decenders, who could actually attack going down, on par with the likes of Nibali, Bardet & Valverde.

I don't remember this at all. I haven't watch the stages recently, but in Dauphine he was in the front group at the top last climb of the first stage he won, as well as in the bottom of the descent, and on the last stage he was caught by the Froome group going downhill. I don't remember him descending particularly well in the Tour either. He was one of the last GC guys to get back to the front group after Ag2r split the peloton on the descent on stage 9, and on Mont du Chat he was "dropped" by Bardet, together with the rest of the front group.
I think he's a good descender, but not as good as you try to make him look.

I think he's technically a good descender (not fantastic but good). But he's not the most daring descender. The reason he was dropped on the Mont du Chat descent in the Tour was because he was riding with a different tire than usually. He got a spare tire from Grivko when he punctured on Col de la Biche, it says in his new book.
"If I had stopped for coffee, they would have done the same. They never got off my wheel." - Fabian Cancellara after Paris-Roubaix 2011.
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Re: Re:

17 Jun 2018 17:36

Cance > TheRest wrote:
The_Beach wrote:
Broccolidwarf wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:When has Fuglsang become a good descender? He has always been pretty cautious, at least the last couple of years - stuck in 2010 like his good time trial?


He's always been a good decender, because of his mountain bike background (he was U23 world champ)

Countless times as a domestique, he's been dropped ahead of the summit, and made it back up to Nibali on the decent, and as late as last years tour and dauphine, you saw him make up time on decents.

And cautious? - Dude, he made up time going down 2 big mountains last year, after getting dropped going up (due to breaking his back and wrist the day before)......... because of the broken wrist, he was forced to decend one-handed..... and still made up time - "Caution" indeed :lol:

So I don't quite know where you get the idea from, that he is not a good decender?

- He's always been considered one of the best decenders, who could actually attack going down, on par with the likes of Nibali, Bardet & Valverde.

I don't remember this at all. I haven't watch the stages recently, but in Dauphine he was in the front group at the top last climb of the first stage he won, as well as in the bottom of the descent, and on the last stage he was caught by the Froome group going downhill. I don't remember him descending particularly well in the Tour either. He was one of the last GC guys to get back to the front group after Ag2r split the peloton on the descent on stage 9, and on Mont du Chat he was "dropped" by Bardet, together with the rest of the front group.
I think he's a good descender, but not as good as you try to make him look.

I think he's technically a good descender (not fantastic but good). But he's not the most daring descender. The reason he was dropped on the Mont du Chat descent in the Tour was because he was riding with a different tire than usually. He got a spare tire from Grivko when he punctured on Col de la Biche, it says in his new book.

I agree, my comment was regarding, the "bolded" statement, as I find myself being more and more annoyed, of people making up things to support their views
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Re: Re:

17 Jun 2018 17:38

Broccolidwarf wrote:
The_Beach wrote:
Broccolidwarf wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:When has Fuglsang become a good descender? He has always been pretty cautious, at least the last couple of years - stuck in 2010 like his good time trial?


He's always been a good decender, because of his mountain bike background (he was U23 world champ)

Countless times as a domestique, he's been dropped ahead of the summit, and made it back up to Nibali on the decent, and as late as last years tour and dauphine, you saw him make up time on decents.

And cautious? - Dude, he made up time going down 2 big mountains last year, after getting dropped going up (due to breaking his back and wrist the day before)......... because of the broken wrist, he was forced to decend one-handed..... and still made up time - "Caution" indeed :lol:

So I don't quite know where you get the idea from, that he is not a good decender?

- He's always been considered one of the best decenders, who could actually attack going down, on par with the likes of Nibali, Bardet & Valverde.

I don't remember this at all. I haven't watch the stages recently, but in Dauphine he was in the front group at the top last climb of the first stage he won, as well as in the bottom of the descent, and on the last stage he was caught by the Froome group going downhill. I don't remember him descending particularly well in the Tour either. He was one of the last GC guys to get back to the front group after Ag2r split the peloton on the descent on stage 9, and on Mont du Chat he was "dropped" by Bardet, together with the rest of the front group.
I think he's a good descender, but not as good as you try to make him look.


All the years I have listened to Rolf Soerensen commentate cycling - every time Fuglsang was in the mountains, the talk was he was one of the best decenders in the peloton.

But, we'll obviously all see at the tour, there are plenty of crucial decents..... I stand by my comment.

Well Rolf Sørensen, isn't exactly known for his objectivity, especially regarding danish riders. And you're not really responding to my comment. So .. I stand by my comment
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Re: Re:

17 Jun 2018 17:39

The_Beach wrote:
Broccolidwarf wrote:
The_Beach wrote:
Broccolidwarf wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:When has Fuglsang become a good descender? He has always been pretty cautious, at least the last couple of years - stuck in 2010 like his good time trial?


He's always been a good decender, because of his mountain bike background (he was U23 world champ)

Countless times as a domestique, he's been dropped ahead of the summit, and made it back up to Nibali on the decent, and as late as last years tour and dauphine, you saw him make up time on decents.

And cautious? - Dude, he made up time going down 2 big mountains last year, after getting dropped going up (due to breaking his back and wrist the day before)......... because of the broken wrist, he was forced to decend one-handed..... and still made up time - "Caution" indeed :lol:

So I don't quite know where you get the idea from, that he is not a good decender?

- He's always been considered one of the best decenders, who could actually attack going down, on par with the likes of Nibali, Bardet & Valverde.

I don't remember this at all. I haven't watch the stages recently, but in Dauphine he was in the front group at the top last climb of the first stage he won, as well as in the bottom of the descent, and on the last stage he was caught by the Froome group going downhill. I don't remember him descending particularly well in the Tour either. He was one of the last GC guys to get back to the front group after Ag2r split the peloton on the descent on stage 9, and on Mont du Chat he was "dropped" by Bardet, together with the rest of the front group.
I think he's a good descender, but not as good as you try to make him look.


All the years I have listened to Rolf Soerensen commentate cycling - every time Fuglsang was in the mountains, the talk was he was one of the best decenders in the peloton.

But, we'll obviously all see at the tour, there are plenty of crucial decents..... I stand by my comment.

Well Rolf Sørensen, isn't exactly known for his objectivity, especially regarding danish riders. And you're not really responding to my comment. So .. I stand by my comment


I look forward to Fuglsang proving you wrong at the tour :)
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Re: Re:

17 Jun 2018 17:46

I look forward to Fuglsang proving you wrong at the tour :)[/quote]
Proving my wrong how? I wrote that I think Fuglsang is a good descender. My only critique, was to your comment, that Fuglsang made up time in the descents in the Dauphine and Tour, which is disagreed with. And so far you haven't wrote anything to back up your statement.
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Re: Re:

17 Jun 2018 17:58

The_Beach wrote:I look forward to Fuglsang proving you wrong at the tour :)

Proving my wrong how? I wrote that I think Fuglsang is a good descender. My only critique, was to your comment, that Fuglsang made up time in the descents in the Dauphine and Tour, which is disagreed with. And so far you haven't wrote anything to back up your statement.[/quote]

- - -

You messed up the quote.

- So you agree he is a good decender, but disagree with my reasoning why?

Ok then - I can certainly live with that :cool:
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17 Jun 2018 18:01

Fuglsang is obviously not as good downhill as Nibali or Bardet but that doesn't mean he isn't a good decender.
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Re: Re:

17 Jun 2018 18:03

Broccolidwarf wrote:
The_Beach wrote:I look forward to Fuglsang proving you wrong at the tour :)

Proving my wrong how? I wrote that I think Fuglsang is a good descender. My only critique, was to your comment, that Fuglsang made up time in the descents in the Dauphine and Tour, which is disagreed with. And so far you haven't wrote anything to back up your statement.


So you agree he is a good decender, but disagree with my reasoning why?

Ok then - I can certainly live with that :cool:[/quote]
I disagree with your reasoning because your wrote "and as late as last years tour and dauphine, you saw him make up time on decents.". Which is not true, and you provide no examples what so ever. And your only respons to my critique of that quote was "Rolf Sørensen says so"
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17 Jun 2018 20:52

He obviously isn't bad, but he isn't daring as another posted stated - pretty cautious and conservative, despite him probably being able to be more aggressive on the downhills.

Great time trial today, but can you pump the brakes a bit Broccoli? Fuglsang is a great rider and a top-5 would be nice, lets not get ahead of ourselves and hype him to the moon as always.
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Re:

17 Jun 2018 20:57

Valv.Piti wrote:He obviously isn't bad, but he isn't daring as another posted stated - pretty cautious and conservative, despite him probably being able to be more aggressive on the downhills.

Great time trial today, but can you pump the brakes a bit Broccoli? Fuglsang is a great rider and a top-5 would be nice, lets not get ahead of ourselves and hype him to the moon as always.


Froome has to get up early in order to stand a chance :cool:
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Re: Re:

17 Jun 2018 21:32

tobydawq wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:He obviously isn't bad, but he isn't daring as another posted stated - pretty cautious and conservative, despite him probably being able to be more aggressive on the downhills.

Great time trial today, but can you pump the brakes a bit Broccoli? Fuglsang is a great rider and a top-5 would be nice, lets not get ahead of ourselves and hype him to the moon as always.


Froome has to get up early in order to stand a chance :cool:

I knew it. :D
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Re:

18 Jun 2018 07:57

Valv.Piti wrote:He obviously isn't bad, but he isn't daring as another posted stated - pretty cautious and conservative, despite him probably being able to be more aggressive on the downhills.

Great time trial today, but can you pump the brakes a bit Broccoli? Fuglsang is a great rider and a top-5 would be nice, lets not get ahead of ourselves and hype him to the moon as always.


Because you say so? :)

I can hype whoever I like :p
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Re: Jakob Fuglsang discussion thread

08 Jul 2018 15:49

Too bad for Fuglsang, losing LLS today. This will probably be costly in the TTT tomorrow.
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08 Jul 2018 16:01

LLS out. This will hurt Astana throughout the Tour!
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08 Jul 2018 20:53

Losing Luis Leon is definitely bad. I'm not sure how big his impact would have been in the biggest mountains, but along with Valgren, I definitely had him as Fuglsang's prime domestique, because he is so versatile. According to Astana's doctor, it's a fractured elbow and some broken ribs. Not the way to go on vacation for LLS :(

Now, the question is how much more time Astana will lose tomorrow because of this? I would not be surprised if, positionally, they will come close to last tomorrow with only 7 guys for the TTT. Gruzdev, Cort, Valgren and Kangert all have good engines, but Jesper Hansen won't be very useful and I have my reservations about Fraile, who I see as more explosive than good at setting a hard pace.
"If I had stopped for coffee, they would have done the same. They never got off my wheel." - Fabian Cancellara after Paris-Roubaix 2011.
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Re:

08 Jul 2018 20:57

Cance > TheRest wrote:Losing Luis Leon is definitely bad. I'm not sure how big his impact would have been in the biggest mountains, but along with Valgren, I definitely had him as Fuglsang's prime domestique, because he is so versatile. According to Astana's doctor, it's a fractured elbow and some broken ribs. Not the way to go on vacation for LLS :(

Now, the question is how much more time Astana will lose tomorrow because of this? I would not be surprised if, positionally, they will come close to last tomorrow with only 7 guys for the TTT. Gruzdev, Cort, Valgren and Kangert all have good engines, but Jesper Hansen won't be very useful and I have my reservations about Fraile, who I see as more explosive than good at setting a hard pace.

He has a huge problem. These seven (with Gatto instead of Valgren) finished 20th out of 21 in Switzerland over 18k, and now he has one less guy compared to the rest too. He is likely going to lose 3 minutes at the very least.
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Re: Re:

08 Jul 2018 21:05

DNP-Old wrote:
Cance > TheRest wrote:Losing Luis Leon is definitely bad. I'm not sure how big his impact would have been in the biggest mountains, but along with Valgren, I definitely had him as Fuglsang's prime domestique, because he is so versatile. According to Astana's doctor, it's a fractured elbow and some broken ribs. Not the way to go on vacation for LLS :(

Now, the question is how much more time Astana will lose tomorrow because of this? I would not be surprised if, positionally, they will come close to last tomorrow with only 7 guys for the TTT. Gruzdev, Cort, Valgren and Kangert all have good engines, but Jesper Hansen won't be very useful and I have my reservations about Fraile, who I see as more explosive than good at setting a hard pace.

He has a huge problem. These seven (with Gatto instead of Valgren) finished 20th out of 21 in Switzerland over 18k, and now he has one less guy compared to the rest too. He is likely going to lose 3 minutes at the very least.

Valgren is a big improvement on Gatto and the team has been training specifically after the TdS fiasco, for what it's worth. I don't think they will lose 3 minutes, but it could be slightly above 2 minutes, which is bad enough in itself.
"If I had stopped for coffee, they would have done the same. They never got off my wheel." - Fabian Cancellara after Paris-Roubaix 2011.
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Re: Re:

08 Jul 2018 21:05

DNP-Old wrote:
Cance > TheRest wrote:Losing Luis Leon is definitely bad. I'm not sure how big his impact would have been in the biggest mountains, but along with Valgren, I definitely had him as Fuglsang's prime domestique, because he is so versatile. According to Astana's doctor, it's a fractured elbow and some broken ribs. Not the way to go on vacation for LLS :(

Now, the question is how much more time Astana will lose tomorrow because of this? I would not be surprised if, positionally, they will come close to last tomorrow with only 7 guys for the TTT. Gruzdev, Cort, Valgren and Kangert all have good engines, but Jesper Hansen won't be very useful and I have my reservations about Fraile, who I see as more explosive than good at setting a hard pace.

He has a huge problem. These seven (with Gatto instead of Valgren) finished 20th out of 21 in Switzerland over 18k, and now he has one less guy compared to the rest too. He is likely going to lose 3 minutes at the very least.


They have had a few days after Tour de Suisse with specific TTT training, but yeah, it looks very bleak. Three minutes sound a bit much, though. Probably two.
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Re: Re:

08 Jul 2018 21:08

Cance > TheRest wrote:
DNP-Old wrote:
Cance > TheRest wrote:Losing Luis Leon is definitely bad. I'm not sure how big his impact would have been in the biggest mountains, but along with Valgren, I definitely had him as Fuglsang's prime domestique, because he is so versatile. According to Astana's doctor, it's a fractured elbow and some broken ribs. Not the way to go on vacation for LLS :(

Now, the question is how much more time Astana will lose tomorrow because of this? I would not be surprised if, positionally, they will come close to last tomorrow with only 7 guys for the TTT. Gruzdev, Cort, Valgren and Kangert all have good engines, but Jesper Hansen won't be very useful and I have my reservations about Fraile, who I see as more explosive than good at setting a hard pace.

He has a huge problem. These seven (with Gatto instead of Valgren) finished 20th out of 21 in Switzerland over 18k, and now he has one less guy compared to the rest too. He is likely going to lose 3 minutes at the very least.

Valgren is a big improvement on Gatto and the team has been training specifically after the TdS fiasco, for what it's worth. I don't think they will lose 3 minutes, but it could be slightly above 2 minutes, which is bad enough in itself.

I hope you're right, but it doesn't look good right now. Everything he gained yesterday and could've gained on Sunday, is melting like snow in the sun.
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08 Jul 2018 21:43

No LLS will hurt a lot. And they should have picked Cataldo over Hansen, thats probably 10-20 seconds right there. Too bad he is losing the race before it really started, but we knew that would happen (to some extent) before. On a positive note, that will force him to attack in the Alps, or at least be more aggressive than he usually is which is really good.
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