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Vino bought the 2010 LBL?

A place to discuss all things related to current professional road races. Here, you can also touch on the latest news relating to professional road racing. A doping discussion free forum.

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15 Nov 2012 18:35

The Hitch wrote:Vinos post ban results show he would have been just as competitive in a "clean" 2000's era.


He wasn't competitive for the win in GTs anymore nor in WT stage races.

I wish I could call Astana clean in 2009-2010, but we all know we can't. The USADA report is a smoking gun. I don't think his post ban results show anything of the sorts.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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15 Nov 2012 18:44

El Pistolero wrote:Yeah, but blood transfusions with someone else's blood gives you a tremendous advantage as well. When Phil is retired you can compare him to Vino. He's still in his prime now.


No it didn't. or do you think he was getting an advantage over lance and ullrich and contador?

El Pistolero wrote:He wasn't competitive for the win in GTs anymore nor in WT stage races.


He was in his.mid to late 30's coming back from 2 years out. Of course he wasn't competitive in gts. Lance under those same circumstances also came absolutely nowhere close to his previous form.
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
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15 Nov 2012 18:47

The Hitch wrote:No it didn't. or do you think he was getting an advantage over lance and ullrich and contador?



He was in his.mid to late 30's coming back from 2 years out. Of course he wasn't competitive in gts. Lance under those same circumstances also came absolutely nowhere close to his previous form.


Lance and Ullrich were retired in 2007. Wouldn't have much advantage on Contador though.

Cadel Evans was in his mid late 30s when he won the Tour after 2 poor years at the Tour. Lance still came third in the Tour under the same circumstances. They rode for the same team(Vino and Lance). And the USADA report knows why Lance got third.

Were there clean riders in 2007? Yeah, and they got screwed. No matter how much you try and justify the behavior of your hero.

Moncoutie won stages in the Tour, Vuelta, KoM titles in the Vuelta, smaller stage races, etc during one of the dirtiest era's in cycling and I do believe he did it all clean yes. Bassons is another guy that got screwed because of guys like Lance and Vino.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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15 Nov 2012 18:53

El Pistolero wrote:Lance and Ullrich were retired in 2007. Wouldn't have much advantage on Contador though.

Cadel Evans was in his mid late 30s when he won the Tour after 2 poor years at the Tour. Lance still came third in the Tour under the same circumstances. They rode for the same team(Vino and Lance). And the USADA report knows why Lance got third.

Were there clean riders in 2007? Yeah, and they got screwed.


Lol wait, you whine that we have no evidence for Gilbert ever doping yet don't bat an eyelid at claiming you know for 100% certain vino doped after 09? Where is your proof?
The Hitch: Winner 2013 Vuelta cq game. Winner, Velorooms prediction game 2012, 2013. 2nd all time cq rankings.
The Father of Clean Cycling, Christophe Bassons wrote:When I look at cycling today, I get the impression that history is repeating itself: riders who are supposed to be rouleurs are climbing passes at the front of the race, and those who are supposed to be climbers are riding time trials at more than 50 kilometres per hour.

The story is beginning again, just as it did 14 years ago


journalist with integrity.
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15 Nov 2012 18:55

The Hitch wrote:Lol wait, you whine that we have no evidence for Gilbert ever doping yet don't bat an eyelid at claiming you know for 100% certain vino doped after 09? Where is your proof?


Still proof of organized team doping in Astana at '09 and 2010. It's in the USADA report.

Lock a cured alcoholic up in a room filled with alcohol and he's going to get addicted again.
Ryo Hazuki wrote:horrible. boonen just the same guy as years before and this course is too hard for him. that's why he rode like a coward there were at least 3 guys stronger than boonen today and none of them won: sagan, ballan, pozzato


The Hitch wrote:Goss will woop boonens candy a[color="Black"]ss[/color] in a sprint he cares about, any day of the week
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16 Nov 2012 12:37

El Pistolero wrote:He wasn't competitive for the win in GTs anymore nor in WT stage races.

I wish I could call Astana clean in 2009-2010, but we all know we can't. The USADA report is a smoking gun. I don't think his post ban results show anything of the sorts.


it's hilariosu you are claiming others to be doped, yet you are a fan of gilbert and contador :o
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16 Nov 2012 12:37

El Pistolero wrote:Still proof of organized team doping in Astana at '09 and 2010. It's in the USADA report.

Lock a cured alcoholic up in a room filled with alcohol and he's going to get addicted again.


no it's not
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20 Aug 2014 14:50

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20 Aug 2014 14:55

roundabout wrote:http://www.sudinfo.be/1083126/article/2014-08-20/liege-bastogne-liege-2010-le-vainqueur-vinokourov-et-son-dauphin-kolobnev-inculp

If true yet another example why Vinokourov is a vermin even by pro cycling standards


Wow, that is interesting. If convicted i suppose they will face a ban from the uci and a **** of lawsuits from the bookies.
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20 Aug 2014 15:14

meh... he was the strongest on the day, and he just ensured that the stongest rider would be first.
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20 Aug 2014 15:22

You guys can talk about this stuff with impunity but if someone starts a thread suggesting AC might not be the single greatest cyclist in the galaxy in it gets deleted by mods...
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20 Aug 2014 15:29

myrideissteelerthanyours wrote:You guys can talk about this stuff with impunity but if someone starts a thread suggesting AC might not be the single greatest cyclist in the galaxy in it gets deleted by mods...


Have you actually bothered to read the link? Both Vino and Kolobnev are being indicted for tho ****. so yes they can talk about this with impunity. Why wouldn't they?
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20 Aug 2014 15:47

GJB123 wrote:Have you actually bothered to read the link? Both Vino and Kolobnev are being indicted for tho ****. so yes they can talk about this with impunity. Why wouldn't they?


Have you bothered to read all this doping talk or are you just a member of the AC internet defense force?
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20 Aug 2014 15:51

Note the unexpected Kazakh Cycling Federation payment to Vino-Kolobdnev that just coincidentally offsets the amount VinoKoro transferred to Kolobdnev.
I am not a plant. I am a human being.
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20 Aug 2014 15:57

myrideissteelerthanyours wrote:Have you bothered to read all this doping talk or are you just a member of the AC internet defense force?


This is the road race section. Doping talk needs to be taken to the appropriate subforum.

But to answer your question nevertheless. Yes, I have read and discussed AC's case extensively with others in The Clinic, although I fail to see how this pertains to this particular discussion. This is not about doping, it is about two riders getting indicted for buying and selling a win in LBL. What AC has to do with that is a mystery to me.

The thread you are referring to that was closed by the admins (not that I particularly agree with that, but that is for another subforum yet) had nothing whatsoever to do with doping or any accusations rightly or wrongly leveled against AC, but rather gave people the opportunity to express how they rate AC in the bigger scheme of cycling compared to other champions of the past. If you want to do the same for Vino, by all means open a separate thread and I will weigh in with my opinion (and might even surprise you).

Lastly, it is hardly like Vino is without any doping blemishes, me thinks, so get of your high horse and debate the points raised by the link.
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20 Aug 2014 16:02

I find Uran looking the other way when Vino made the decisive move in the Olympics more interesting. Kolobnev showed just respect and it was rewarded properly.
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20 Aug 2014 16:09

MarkvW wrote:Note the unexpected Kazakh Cycling Federation payment to Vino-Kolobdnev that just coincidentally offsets the amount VinoKoro transferred to Kolobdnev.


What is so strange about it? So he was influential enough to be able to recover the costs of the thank-you gift from the Federation...

Still I do not see how this new story affects the fundamental question whether this was a compensation for Kolobnev's willingness to lose (which would not be ok), or a payment for recognition of his contribution unrewarded by victory (which could be ok, from certain perspective). I understand noone denies that payment occurred.
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20 Aug 2014 17:51

Vinokourov is poison.
I don't understand why people like him and Riis are allowed to still be involved in pro-cycling. It's rewarding proven cheaters and liars. Disgusting.
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20 Aug 2014 17:55

good luck proving that in a serious court with serious judges.
you have to go from the first bike race to the last one, those prosecutors know nothing about this sport. but vino really fucced it up with his easy password anyway
Vino 4ever
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20 Aug 2014 18:20

roundabout wrote:http://www.sudinfo.be/1083126/article/2014-08-20/liege-bastogne-liege-2010-le-vainqueur-vinokourov-et-son-dauphin-kolobnev-inculp

If true yet another example why Vinokourov is a vermin even by pro cycling standards
Lock them up in jail, and throw away the key. #ProblemSolved
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