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Tejay Van Garderen Discussion Thread

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19 May 2017 01:04

His mental toughness is 8/10.
Goodbye, Tommeke; thank you for all you have given us!
User avatar Netserk
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Re:

19 May 2017 01:14

Netserk wrote:His mental toughness is 8/10.

You are killing me :D !
When I woke up and saw the yellow jersey that I had left by my bed the night before, I asked myself: "what are you doing in Merckx's bedroom?" I couldn't believe it - Bernard Thevenet
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Re: Re:

19 May 2017 05:32

Dr. Watson wrote:
Kokoso wrote:
Dr. Watson wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:
Dr. Watson wrote:seems like he puts way too much pressure on himself, it must be in the head, I dont see any winning spirit in him

Do you think there is a psychical problem, Doc, or is it all mentally?


Im not his psychiatrist but sure as hell seems to me guy has some issues with the pressure and cannot cope with responsibility.

Are you close to him somehow, or is that just uninformed, worthless opinion?


Well its either bad legs, bad mental state or both so you can choose what you want

I don't understand you. Firstly you say it's sure as hell mental state (because coping with pressure is thing of mental state, not legs), now you say it can be physical thing as well... So, as it turns out, worthless opinion was it.
Kokoso
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Re: Re:

19 May 2017 05:34

lenric wrote:
Kokoso wrote:
lenric wrote:He's mentally weak

How do you know? Do you know him?


It's fairly obvious. Unless to someone who's socially inept, doesn't leave his/her home or is closely related to him and doesn't want to admit it. Pick whatever you want.

I pick different; you are talking nonsense. "Clever" talk behind keyoard. You know nothing. He might ill for example.
Kokoso
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Re: Re:

19 May 2017 05:55

Kokoso wrote:
lenric wrote:
Kokoso wrote:
lenric wrote:He's mentally weak

How do you know? Do you know him?


It's fairly obvious. Unless to someone who's socially inept, doesn't leave his/her home or is closely related to him and doesn't want to admit it. Pick whatever you want.

I pick different; you are talking nonsense. "Clever" talk behind keyoard. You know nothing. He might ill for example.



Someone got touchy touchy about his boy...

VN: Are you suffering from an illness or any physical problem?
TVG: I don’t really want to make excuses. Every time I try to make an explanation, everyone says, oh, he’s just making more excuses. It’s a lose-lose situation; if I try to give an explanation, then it’s an excuse, and if I don’t, then people don’t accept that, either. Right now, my body is just kind of failing. I don’t know why — I did feel a little bit of a heat stroke on the day before Blockhaus, but I was able to dump some water over my head. I ate and drank, and I felt like I dodged a bullet. Since then, I feel like I can’t really get into the red. That’s the only explanation I can come up with. I don’t know …

Read more at http://www.velonews.com/2017/05/giro-ditalia/van-garderen-maybe-not-grand-tour-rider_438724#sjgt1B3T6WSRiHf8.99


Take your own conclusions about the "illness" excuse, properly used in his past GT failures.

It’s really confusing, frustrating. I know what people are probably saying about me — I don’t even look at cycling websites anymore, and I deleted my social media accounts — I know what people are saying.

Read more at http://www.velonews.com/2017/05/giro-ditalia/van-garderen-maybe-not-grand-tour-rider_438724#sjgt1B3T6WSRiHf8.99


This is a red flag for mental weakness (at the moment, at least). Sorry to spoil that to it, but this is the truth.

About the "you know nothing" part, dude, that's actually true. There are so much things in the world to know that I couldn't possibly know even 1% of them. Fortunately, I read his interview, otherwise it was even one more thing I was oblivious to, right?
No need to act arrogantly and defensively just because your boy isn't performing. Some day will be his day again.
User avatar lenric
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Re: Tejay Van Garderen Discussion Thread

19 May 2017 07:27

TJ and Betancur make an interesting comparison in how the audience's sympathy when there's failure depends on its causes.
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Re: Tejay Van Garderen Discussion Thread

19 May 2017 11:11

SeriousSam wrote:TJ and Betancur make an interesting comparison in how the audience's sympathy when there's failure depends on its causes.

:lol:

I already noticed that a few days ago. Perhaps some admin might merge their threads?

ice&fire wrote:This is on the way to become the sister thread of Betancur's
ice&fire
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Re: Re:

19 May 2017 11:22

lenric wrote:
Kokoso wrote:
lenric wrote:
Kokoso wrote:
lenric wrote:He's mentally weak

How do you know? Do you know him?


It's fairly obvious. Unless to someone who's socially inept, doesn't leave his/her home or is closely related to him and doesn't want to admit it. Pick whatever you want.

I pick different; you are talking nonsense. "Clever" talk behind keyoard. You know nothing. He might ill for example.

Edit: talking about arrogance, inspect yourself first before you begin lecture someone else.



Someone got touchy touchy about his boy...

TJVG is by no means my favourite rider - again you are being "clever", but you are totalliy wrong. I just stand for anyone who is unfairly bashed by keyboard heroes like you are. You act like a je*k and "touchy touchy" and "dude" doesn't make it better.

Regarding ilness - one may suffer ilness which he doesn't even know about but can be devastating for his performance.

To delete social media is sign of mental weakness? It is not. Quite on the contrary it can be sign of mental health or mental maturity. Especially with people like you commenting.

Communication via internet makes this with people I guess...be it live encounter, I guess you would behave and talk differently. But for now, behind keyboard, you are da man, tough guy, aren't you.
Kokoso
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19 May 2017 11:33

Knock if off with the personal insults please. Post, not poster.
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User avatar King Boonen
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19 May 2017 13:01

I probably already posted this in this thread, but I think that TvG just needs to change his training, and refocus his racing. As it has been posted above, it might be best to change teams (not C-D), and maybe his coach for a fresh start. I think that the media and the fans built him into something that he is not, and he has been struggling to fulfill that. Make no mistake, he is an elite cyclist, he just isn't a GT winner.

One thing that we often forget when tapping keys on the www is that this is a person, and by all accounts a really nice guy.
jmdirt
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19 May 2017 13:09

He should take the same path Gesink has done. Just enjoy life and cycling again and go stagehunting. He will never win or podium a GT so must not put himself in that position again, because the failure after failure will only hurt.
Ikbengodniet
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19 May 2017 13:15

Man, his form has really taken a turn for the worse.

I think it's safe to say that if he had Andrew Talansky-level results in Grand Tours (11th in the Tour and 5th in the Vuelta in the last couple of years) he would not be catching nearly as much flak.

His performance in 1-week stage races are actually pretty decent.
DanielSong39
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Re:

19 May 2017 13:25

Ikbengodniet wrote:He should take the same path Gesink has done. Just enjoy life and cycling again and go stagehunting. He will never win or podium a GT so must not put himself in that position again, because the failure after failure will only hurt.


Gesink is even worse. He can't even compete against the field in Californië.
It was so obvious TJ would fail this Giro. He just need to focus on 1 week stage rides otherwise he well end up like Van Den Broeck.
User avatar Oliver
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Re: Re:

19 May 2017 13:27

Oliver wrote:
Ikbengodniet wrote:He should take the same path Gesink has done. Just enjoy life and cycling again and go stagehunting. He will never win or podium a GT so must not put himself in that position again, because the failure after failure will only hurt.


Gesink is even worse. He can't even compete against the field in Californië.
It was so obvious TJ would fail this Giro. He just need to focus on 1 week stage rides otherwise he well end up like Van Den Broeck.


That's because he doesn't care about California, but I'm sure he will be on the attack in July.
Ikbengodniet
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Re: Re:

19 May 2017 13:31

Oliver wrote:
Ikbengodniet wrote:He should take the same path Gesink has done. Just enjoy life and cycling again and go stagehunting. He will never win or podium a GT so must not put himself in that position again, because the failure after failure will only hurt.


Gesink is even worse. He can't even compete against the field in Californië.
It was so obvious TJ would fail this Giro. He just need to focus on 1 week stage rides otherwise he well end up like Van Den Broeck.


Actually Jurgen Van den Broeck has had a nice career; Tejay would be hard-pressed to match that no matter what he focuses on.
DanielSong39
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Re: Re:

19 May 2017 13:32

Ikbengodniet wrote:
Oliver wrote:
Ikbengodniet wrote:He should take the same path Gesink has done. Just enjoy life and cycling again and go stagehunting. He will never win or podium a GT so must not put himself in that position again, because the failure after failure will only hurt.


Gesink is even worse. He can't even compete against the field in Californië.
It was so obvious TJ would fail this Giro. He just need to focus on 1 week stage rides otherwise he well end up like Van Den Broeck.


That's because he doesn't care about California, but I'm sure he will be on the attack in July.


Does he care about anything else then le Tour? That's his big problem. In his situation it would be good to take everything you can. Giving everything up for 1 'possible' win? I hope for him he's top otherwise he can forget a win there.
User avatar Oliver
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Re: Re:

19 May 2017 13:35

DanielSong39 wrote:
Oliver wrote:
Ikbengodniet wrote:He should take the same path Gesink has done. Just enjoy life and cycling again and go stagehunting. He will never win or podium a GT so must not put himself in that position again, because the failure after failure will only hurt.


Gesink is even worse. He can't even compete against the field in Californië.
It was so obvious TJ would fail this Giro. He just need to focus on 1 week stage rides otherwise he well end up like Van Den Broeck.


Actually Jurgen Van den Broeck has had a nice career; Tejay would be hard-pressed to match that no matter what he focuses on.


Seriously? How many wins does he have?
Teejay had a better career so far then.
User avatar Oliver
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19 May 2017 13:42

Gesink looks fine to me.

He just started stage hunting in the Vuelta and was very successful. He is working for somebody else in Cali. No need to take shots at him.
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Re: Re:

19 May 2017 13:48

DanielSong39 wrote:
Oliver wrote:
Ikbengodniet wrote:He should take the same path Gesink has done. Just enjoy life and cycling again and go stagehunting. He will never win or podium a GT so must not put himself in that position again, because the failure after failure will only hurt.


Gesink is even worse. He can't even compete against the field in Californië.
It was so obvious TJ would fail this Giro. He just need to focus on 1 week stage rides otherwise he well end up like Van Den Broeck.


Actually Jurgen Van den Broeck has had a nice career; Tejay would be hard-pressed to match that no matter what he focuses on.


Actually I think JVDB, Gesink and TJVG are all quite similar in that they never lived up to the early promise. Gesink had a shocking run with crashes and injuries but the three of them never had much luck with illness and misfortune. Even Porte's issues seem average next to theirs but when Porte has an issue in a race it's usually enough to kill his chances of a high overall. Last year in the Tour I thought Porte showed some maturity and just got on with the job and still rode a good race. If TJVG had a medical issue I am sure it would have been picked up by now and if it was that bad he probably wouldn't even be competing. They have regular blood tests, stress tests the works. He said himself that he had a good block of training before the Giro and felt fine going into the race but when the race gets hard his body shuts down which makes me think it's possibly stress related. If he had some sort of rare virus or glandular fever he wouldn't even be racing so it's a bit of a mystery.
movingtarget
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19 May 2017 14:38

lenric...

You must be such a funny guy.

Who here remembers the mental fortitude of that stellar of German physical prowess, Jan Ullrich?

Why have a photo for your avatar of a rider who certainly had questionable mental flops during his GT career, and pick on another rider for the same issues?

It's because you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Back in 2014 when Tejay had his first event, aka, he bonks after the second rest day of the Tour, I noted it could occur in 2015.

2015 rolls around and this time, Tejay cannot even turn his crank. He was dropped on the Queen stage on the FIRST hill, by the groupetto.

Then came a litany of excuses. Personally many were quite funny to hear and then witness Tejay eat his words. So yes, I agree he boasts way too much.

However I did remark in 2015 BMC have a responsibility to protect the mental health of all their riders. Nobody addressed Tejay's clear issue. 2016 rolls around, Tejay and Porte rode how many races pre Tour? Zip from memory. That is tactically stupid.

Second stage of the Tour, ALL the BMC squad minus Tejay, Porte and van Avermaet had been dropped. Some fool decided they'd do a turn on the front. I said out loud "I hope one of them gets a puncture." 500m later Porte has a puncture. Porte eventually loses second place in the Tour because of that.

The entire time though, being someone who was overtly critical of Porte, was clearly saying, that BMC needed to make him leader. Tejay and BMC promised us they'd solved Tejay's issues. Tejay bonked AGAIN on the second rests days following stage. Blew 20 mins, then even more the next day. Suddenly he is an hour behind.

Here is the CRAZY piece of this puzzle! I said BMC needed ONE leader in 2015. Even more so in 2016 and it needed to be Porte. Tejay was so tired he couldn't help. A whole rider, brought along to just collapse and do what?

That's right, mentally disintegrate. I called it.

Why? Because Tejay's issue was clear in 2014. It's physical. He lost far too much weight to compete as a climber, sacrificing some of his ITT power and now, when the races get to 10+ days, his body can't handle it. Oh, yes, the rivals can.

Tejay ain't them. The solution I gave last year was simple, to protect him mentally the team needed to remove him as a GC leader, put some weight on him, have him be a domestique for a season and reshape him as a 1 week, classics, chrono/ITT rider.

BMC didn't listen. SSDD is what Lance use to say. Heck lenric, Lance beat Ullrich non stop. Tejay rides with Lance in his spare time!!

It's simple, hire a good sports dietitian, figure out a healthier heavier weight for Tejay and ride for the whole season at that weight. Tejay is mentally cracking BECAUSE his body actually does shut down after a week of racing. It's not present during a stage race because he does not have accumulated fatigue. His bodies natural glucose and fat stores are not good enough...they depleted and he bonks.

Jan Ullrich never had that issue because he had body fat galore for a cyclist. His fault was actually mental. But, you knew this right lenric?

Again...leave the forum for a year and those who can't spot the obvious are running amok.

It's physical...when your body doesn't behave as your MEMORY remembers, the result that FLOWS from this is mentally draining. Tonton is right, that sucks BIG time. Tejay gets compassion for me, because this was all bloody obvious 3 years ago. Heck, I even predicted they'd ignore it.

However look at this year. They announced without any reasoning to justify Tejay not having to rethink things, that he is a GC rider at season beginning! After last years Tour, he went to the Vuelta, claimed he would go for stage wins. Couldn't even finish that GT. Tejay either bombs out or doesn't finish the GT's he races now. That's an energy problem...what on earth are all of you watching who didn't recognize this? It's physically what his body refuses to do. The solution is to put on more weight, not bonk BUT change his perspective and approach to riding.

BMC however are morons of the finest order. Cheating Movistar at (correct me if the race was another) Pais Vasco in the chrono I saw as a clear tactic of cowardice KNOWING Tejay needed all the freebies he could get. Valverde still flogged him!

I also said, Tejay should have put some weight on, switched his objectives, been a helper for GvA and Porte and AIMED to win as many Tour of California's and Utah's as he can get. Because that's still a good result. BMC are beyond delusional...they're responsible for his mental state right now. He should switch teams if he can.

Oh right...no social media. He won't get this. BMC, if you're reading this or ride for the team, if I could spot it in 2015, what on earth is your excuse? He rides with Lance so he should 'be alright to go?' That's literally the only thing I can consider. Tell him once again, to pack some muscle and body fat on, focus on his ITT again and then go for stage race wins....it's not rocket science.

Yes he can get his form back. Yes it's physical. Yes it's reversible. Put some weight on...reverse the extravagant weight loss, power goes up, body has more fat, has more fuel in longer races to fall back on, he can last longer and actually pedal.

Sheesh....I'll be back in a year. Hopefully he's still riding.
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