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Sylvain Chavanel - Super Domestique?

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Re: Re:

06 Oct 2018 20:46

SHAD0W93 wrote:
MuskyOurSaviour wrote:
SHAD0W93 wrote:Between Chavanel, Voeckler, Fedrigo, and Casar of the end of the French breakaway era, I would say Chavanel had the best career of the 4.


As good Chava was, Voeckler's 2011 Tour eclipses all of Chava's career.


From a breakaway. He held onto the time he gained. Chavanel could have did the same thing in 10 if he didn't have the mechanicals on the cobbles. Almost every year the Tour has a rider in the top 10 from a breakaway.

Chavanel was a lot better rider than Voeckler.


What??

Voeckler didn't gain more than 4 minutes!

Chavanel could absolutely not have done the same.
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Re: Sylvain Chavanel - Super Domestique?

06 Oct 2018 23:03

Both have 45 pro wins, 10 at WT level, and yes, Tommie has a brighter highlight with his '11 TdF. But is we look at monuments, TV has two top-10 in LBL (4-10) and a 8th at the RVV, vs. Chava has a 4th at MSR, a near miss and two other top-10 at the RVV (2-9-10), 7 and 8 at PR. RVV and PR say something about a rider. From that prospective, it offsets one magic summer IMO.
SOLO LA VITTORIA È BELLA
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Re: Re:

07 Oct 2018 00:44

tobydawq wrote:
SHAD0W93 wrote:
MuskyOurSaviour wrote:
SHAD0W93 wrote:Between Chavanel, Voeckler, Fedrigo, and Casar of the end of the French breakaway era, I would say Chavanel had the best career of the 4.


As good Chava was, Voeckler's 2011 Tour eclipses all of Chava's career.


From a breakaway. He held onto the time he gained. Chavanel could have did the same thing in 10 if he didn't have the mechanicals on the cobbles. Almost every year the Tour has a rider in the top 10 from a breakaway.

Chavanel was a lot better rider than Voeckler.


What??

Voeckler didn't gain more than 4 minutes!

Chavanel could absolutely not have done the same.


Chavanel in my opinion was better at everything than Voeckler excluding maybe recovery.

In 2011 there was 12 stages left for Voeckler who had a 2'26" lead over Evans with both Schleck's less than 20 seconds behind. He had 3'30" on Basso and Cunego, 4'07" on Contador and 5'01" on Sanchez. He finished 3'20" behind Evans. Many contenders got injured and either continued hurt or abandoned.

Of those 12 stages; 4 flat, 1ITT, 6 high mountain designated, and 1 medium mountain. 3 downhill finishes.

3 of the mountain stages the break won and the ones that the breakaway didn't win the peleton wasn't doing much. Schleck's decided not to attack till late on all the stages excluding the 1 Andy won and Evans didn't need to attack because of the ITT. It got to the point Sanchez and Vanderent were let go for their stage wins. That slow pace helped Voeckler immensely and the only people he had to worry about was Evans and the Schlecks.
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07 Oct 2018 03:13

Voeckler was the best stage race rider, that much is clear. The mountains were usually too much for Chavanel. Both were quite similar tactics wise. They would kill themselves for no gain or try something daring and it sometimes paid off. Who dares wins and all that. More like De Gendt type riders than someone who was smart tactically but they rode to their strengths like De Gendt does.and De Gendt made a Giro podium based on one of his signature type breakaway rides so it sometimes pays off in a big way.

I wouldn't underestimate Voeckler's Tour exploits but once again it was his lack of tactical awareness that could have cost him a podium in the 2011 Tour when he burnt himself for a long time between the bunch and Andy Schleck's break when he should have waited for the bunch especially after Evans dropped out of the group. By the time they hit the final climb on the Alpe he was dead and lost big time. He was already spent when Evan's chase group caught him and dropped him and he had to chase for a long time to get back to the front. He was even going off at his own team that were accidentally riding away from him.
movingtarget
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07 Oct 2018 06:22

I'm not trying to play down his abilities or underestimate him, I just think of the 2 Chavanel was better excluding ambition and like a said recovery.

Voeckler received a once in a life time opportunity and he did everything in his power to get as much as he could from it. I agree he could have played the last couple stages better and got a podium. All I am saying is he had a lot go his way that helped him gain that 4th and foght for the podium.

Between the 2 I would say Voeckler was the more ambitious one as I don't t think Chavanel would have even tried to maintain his GC position just like Lulu. I think Chavanel could if he truly wanted to but never cared to try
My memory could be wrong but I don't remember Lulu being in a crash that year, so he could have tried for a GC position as well, especially considering his finishes the year before.

It seems like the end of the French breakaway era with their high profile riders being climbers and sprinters.
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07 Oct 2018 08:08

Chavanel was far more consistent through the years.

That said, peak Voeckler (2010-2013) was an incredible racer and stage hunter.
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Re:

07 Oct 2018 23:59

SHAD0W93 wrote:It seems like the end of the French breakaway era with their high profile riders being climbers and sprinters.

Hopefully not. That's why the Cosnefroy or Madouas youngsters are so exciting to me.

Happy retirement Chava, Thank you!
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08 Oct 2018 01:04

Happy retirement, Sylvain. We will miss you.
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Re: Sylvain Chavanel - Super Domestique?

08 Oct 2018 12:57

Studbolt!

....and 'no', I'm not a French housewife
UncleChainwhip
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Re: Sylvain Chavanel - Super Domestique?

08 Oct 2018 16:14

UncleChainwhip wrote:Studbolt!

....and 'no', I'm not a French housewife

Where are you from then? :)
kingjr
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Re:

08 Oct 2018 16:21

Koronin wrote:Happy retirement, Sylvain. We will miss you.


He's got one last showing in the Chronos des Nations.

Sorry, I'm not a French housewife either.
Aka The Ginger One.
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16 Oct 2018 09:37

User avatar Alexandre B.
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