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Jan Ullrich still has it!!!

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Re:

10 Aug 2018 18:21

SHAD0W93 wrote:I just don't understand how he went from happy and well to this. Honestly he needs help and what ever happens from this altercation.


He needs jail time, this is attempted murder.

Victims should be helped, Jan Ullrich should be punished.
User avatar El Pistolero
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10 Aug 2018 18:43

Perhaps we should let a judge and jury decide who needs jail time, not our reaction to journalists' reports.

And the idea that imprisonment and assistance are mutually exclusive seems very retrogressive.
User avatar Armchair cyclist
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Re:

10 Aug 2018 18:52

Armchair cyclist wrote:Perhaps we should let a judge and jury decide who needs jail time, not our reaction to journalists' reports.

And the idea that imprisonment and assistance are mutually exclusive seems very retrogressive.


Call me pessimistic or cynical, but people rarely change.

There are a couple of crimes in this world where I don't think second chances should be given, (attempted) murder is one of them. Strangling someone untill they black out is just that imo.
User avatar El Pistolero
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Re: Re:

10 Aug 2018 19:06

El Pistolero wrote:
Armchair cyclist wrote:Perhaps we should let a judge and jury decide who needs jail time, not our reaction to journalists' reports.

And the idea that imprisonment and assistance are mutually exclusive seems very retrogressive.


Call me pessimistic, but people rarely change.

There are a couple of crimes in this world where I don't think second chances should be given, (attempted) murder is one of them.


This is nowhere close to attempted murder, she alerted the staff herself. The guy is obviously in a drug induced psychosis, smoking 4 cigs at once, going for the world record in smoking cigaretes, he tells his neighbours about his drug use and that cocaine is healthier for him than amphetamines. None of this is normal behaviour for him, he needs to be admitted to the mental ward and later to rehab.
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Re: Re:

10 Aug 2018 19:07

El Pistolero wrote:
Armchair cyclist wrote:Perhaps we should let a judge and jury decide who needs jail time, not our reaction to journalists' reports.

And the idea that imprisonment and assistance are mutually exclusive seems very retrogressive.


Call me pessimistic or cynical, but people rarely change.

There are a couple of crimes in this world where I don't think second chances should be given, (attempted) murder is one of them. Strangling someone untill they black out is just that imo.

While we are bringing classical references into our discussion, consider Protagoras's remark in the Plato dialogue of the same name:

"If you will think, Socrates, of the nature of punishment, you will see at once that in the opinion of mankind virtue may be acquired; no one punishes the evil-doer under the notion, or for the reason, that he has done wrong, only the unreasonable fury of a beast acts in that manner. But he who desires to inflict rational punishment does not retaliate for a past wrong which cannot be undone; he has regard to the future, and is desirous that the man who is punished, and he who sees him punished, may be deterred from doing wrong again. He punishes for the sake of prevention, thereby clearly implying that virtue is capable of being taught."
shalgo
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Re: Re:

10 Aug 2018 19:45

El Pistolero wrote:
SHAD0W93 wrote:I just don't understand how he went from happy and well to this. Honestly he needs help and what ever happens from this altercation.


He needs jail time, this is attempted murder.

Victims should be helped, Jan Ullrich should be punished.

Rehabilitation is a thing.
User avatar Alexandre B.
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Re: Re:

10 Aug 2018 19:54

El Pistolero wrote:
SHAD0W93 wrote:I just don't understand how he went from happy and well to this. Honestly he needs help and what ever happens from this altercation.


He needs jail time, this is attempted murder.

Victims should be helped, Jan Ullrich should be punished.


I never said he shouldn't be punished but after what ever the police investigation brings this ordeal to he neds a therapist because this is something that has been brewing in him for a long time and finally he lost it. Everyone has their breaking point and do different things when you hit it but if during the investigation and trial they show he needs jail time etc. Than absolutely he should get it.
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Re: Re:

10 Aug 2018 20:02

Alexandre B. wrote:
El Pistolero wrote:
SHAD0W93 wrote:I just don't understand how he went from happy and well to this. Honestly he needs help and what ever happens from this altercation.


He needs jail time, this is attempted murder.

Victims should be helped, Jan Ullrich should be punished.

Rehabilitation is a thing.


So is recidivism.
User avatar El Pistolero
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10 Aug 2018 20:27

Der Kaiser is the best thing to happen to the post-Tour-pre-Vuelta blues of all time, he's melting down faster than Chernobyl, this is far from over. I see a judge released him again, I wonder what Jan is doing this very moment :lol:
hazaran
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Re:

10 Aug 2018 21:20

hazaran wrote:Der Kaiser is the best thing to happen to the post-Tour-pre-Vuelta blues of all time, he's melting down faster than Chernobyl, this is far from over. I see a judge released him again, I wonder what Jan is doing this very moment :lol:


He's probably thinking how tragic it is that someone can find the personal disintegration of another human being humorous. I mean you do realise he's an actual person who is obviously having a very hard time of things at the moment not a character in a work of fiction created for your amusement, right?

Note - if you're under 13, I'll give you a pass. Otherwise, give your head a wobble lad.

El Pistolero wrote:
SHAD0W93 wrote:I just don't understand how he went from happy and well to this. Honestly he needs help and what ever happens from this altercation.


He needs jail time, this is attempted murder.

Victims should be helped, Jan Ullrich should be punished.


I wish I lived in your world where everybody can be easily categorised and placed into the right little box. It must be so much easier than the real one.
OldCranky
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Re:

10 Aug 2018 21:24

hazaran wrote:Der Kaiser is the best thing to happen to the post-Tour-pre-Vuelta blues of all time, he's melting down faster than Chernobyl, this is far from over. I see a judge released him again, I wonder what Jan is doing this very moment :lol:

Yes, this is all so terribly funny :rolleyes: grow up
User avatar LaFlorecita
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10 Aug 2018 21:25

Hello, the guy just tried to strangle a hooker and god knows he has driven more kilometres high as a kite than he ever did sober in his entire life. I'll have my laugh at his expense, no worries.
hazaran
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Re:

10 Aug 2018 21:39

Armchair cyclist wrote:Perhaps we should let a judge and jury decide who needs jail time, not our reaction to journalists' reports.

And the idea that imprisonment and assistance are mutually exclusive seems very retrogressive.


No thanks. My guess is that you didn't offer such an admonition when it concerned Harvey Weinstein or Jerry Sandusky or O.J. (if you were alive then) or Lance. This isn't a court of law.

What does the research say on the effectiveness of rehabilitation of violent criminals?
chiocciolis_calves
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Re: Re:

10 Aug 2018 21:41

OldCranky wrote:
hazaran wrote:Der Kaiser is the best thing to happen to the post-Tour-pre-Vuelta blues of all time, he's melting down faster than Chernobyl, this is far from over. I see a judge released him again, I wonder what Jan is doing this very moment :lol:


He's probably thinking how tragic it is that someone can find the personal disintegration of another human being humorous. I mean you do realise he's an actual person who is obviously having a very hard time of things at the moment not a character in a work of fiction created for your amusement, right?

Note - if you're under 13, I'll give you a pass. Otherwise, give your head a wobble lad.

El Pistolero wrote:
SHAD0W93 wrote:I just don't understand how he went from happy and well to this. Honestly he needs help and what ever happens from this altercation.


He needs jail time, this is attempted murder.

Victims should be helped, Jan Ullrich should be punished.


I wish I lived in your world where everybody can be easily categorised and placed into the right little box. It must be so much easier than the real one.


What a judgmental post. Talk about a hasty appraisal of someone based upon two sentences.
chiocciolis_calves
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Re: Re:

10 Aug 2018 21:56

chiocciolis_calves wrote:
Armchair cyclist wrote:Perhaps we should let a judge and jury decide who needs jail time, not our reaction to journalists' reports.

And the idea that imprisonment and assistance are mutually exclusive seems very retrogressive.


No thanks. My guess is that you didn't offer such an admonition when it concerned Harvey Weinstein or Jerry Sandusky or O.J. (if you were alive then) or Lance. This isn't a court of law.


Well that shows how wrong you will be if you try to make assumptions about me.
User avatar Armchair cyclist
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Re: Re:

11 Aug 2018 01:28

Armchair cyclist wrote:
chiocciolis_calves wrote:
Armchair cyclist wrote:Perhaps we should let a judge and jury decide who needs jail time, not our reaction to journalists' reports.

And the idea that imprisonment and assistance are mutually exclusive seems very retrogressive.


No thanks. My guess is that you didn't offer such an admonition when it concerned Harvey Weinstein or Jerry Sandusky or O.J. (if you were alive then) or Lance. This isn't a court of law.


Well that shows how wrong you will be if you try to make assumptions about me.


Ah, so we should reserve all judgment until a case has been adjudicated? What if it never goes to court? Does this principle apply in perpetuity?
chiocciolis_calves
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Re:

11 Aug 2018 07:09

SHAD0W93 wrote:I just don't understand how he went from happy and well to this. Honestly he needs help and what ever happens from this altercation.


His wife left him and took the kids. He hasn't seen his children since Easter and has barely heard from them since.

Not saying she was wrong to leave him, but that was all Ullrich talked about in the media reports after the recent Mallorca arrest.

He claims he started taking amphetamines after.
18-Valve. (pithy)
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11 Aug 2018 11:11

He's now been placed in a psychiatric hospital. Obviously the first step is to get off of what substances he's been taking first, so he can then get help to address the underlying mental health issues to help repair his relationship with his family. Good on Armstrong for offering to fly over and help him with a doctor too, that's a pretty noble thing to offer as no doubt Armstrong will recognise his own failings in Ullrich too.
samhocking
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Re:

11 Aug 2018 11:13

hazaran wrote:Hello, the guy just tried to strangle a hooker and god knows he has driven more kilometres high as a kite than he ever did sober in his entire life. I'll have my laugh at his expense, no worries.

What a disgraceful attitude.

On topic: glad he is now getting the help he needs
User avatar LaFlorecita
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Re:

11 Aug 2018 11:25

samhocking wrote:He's now been placed in a psychiatric hospital. Obviously the first step is to get off of what substances he's been taking first, so he can then get help to address the underlying mental health issues to help repair his relationship with his family. Good on Armstrong for offering to fly over and help him with a doctor too, that's a pretty noble thing to offer as no doubt Armstrong will recognise his own failings in Ullrich too.


I read here ad on twitter LA offered help
did he talk about that in his podcast? did he say it in an interview? cant find anything
pastronef
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