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Vincenzo Nibali discussion thread

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Re:

18 May 2017 06:10

lenric wrote:I think Bardet also spends some time out of the saddle.


That's true but not as much as Contador and Porte who both tend to ride large gears in the mountains.
movingtarget
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Re: Re:

18 May 2017 06:48

Gigs_98 wrote:
Valv.Piti wrote:It seemed like a pretty toothless attack, but you never know if you never try. He managed to drop Kruijswijk and Thomas, thats something.

It was mostly a strange attack. He was at the front of the group when he attacked so the other riders never were outside his slipstream. Moreover he also didn't have a very impressive acceleration. It looked as if he just set a slightly higher pace at the front of the group for a few seconds and expected to get away like that. He really rather should have tried to get a gap on the last 100 meters of the climb with an explosive attack and then extend his advantage on the descent.


He took the responsibility since nobody bothered to do anything and Pellizotti is no Scarponi. He expected to be counter attacked, he expected Quintana to try something so he wasn't going all out, I don't think he expected one moment that he could get away but rather put Dumoulin in difficulty together with other people interested, mainly Quintana. The descent proved to be no place where gaps could be made though he tried a brief attack.
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18 May 2017 07:39

Putting more time into Thomas and Kruijswijk is a result. You never know, especially with the Dutch rider.

I think Mollema was at his limit as well. But that could be just my feeling.

I agree he's turning into Basso 2.0, he needs long stages to make a difference. He never was an explosive rider but at the top of his game he could be deadly even in a short and steep climbs.
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Re:

18 May 2017 07:42

SafeBet wrote:Putting more time into Thomas and Kruijswijk is a result. You never know, especially with the Dutch rider.

I think Mollema was at his limit as well. But that could be just my feeling.

I agree he's turning into Basso 2.0, he needs long stages to make a difference. He never was an explosive rider but at the top of his game he could be deadly even in a short and steep climbs.

The funny thing is that at the same time his sprint keeps getting better.
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19 May 2017 20:51

Might as well use my first post for a question...
All the top GC guys are having at least 4-5 helpers around them at the end of the stage to keep them at the front. Nibali had 2 today and was alone yesterday for the final.
Why is this the case? Is his team that bad or is he confident enough in his ability to stay in position without a lot of help?
skippo12
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Re:

20 May 2017 05:31

SafeBet wrote:Putting more time into Thomas and Kruijswijk is a result. You never know, especially with the Dutch rider.

I think Mollema was at his limit as well. But that could be just my feeling.

I agree he's turning into Basso 2.0, he needs long stages to make a difference. He never was an explosive rider but at the top of his game he could be deadly even in a short and steep climbs.


He shouldn't have any trouble putting time into Thomas ! Stephen K will struggle I think, the form doesn't seem to be there. As for Mollema I think he will do okay, he always looks like he is struggling but can grind out a performance and with another TT to come I think he will at least finish in the top five. Pinot is more unpredictable.
movingtarget
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Re:

20 May 2017 09:49

skippo12 wrote:Might as well use my first post for a question...
All the top GC guys are having at least 4-5 helpers around them at the end of the stage to keep them at the front. Nibali had 2 today and was alone yesterday for the final.
Why is this the case? Is his team that bad or is he confident enough in his ability to stay in position without a lot of help?

I am hardly the most knowledgeable person on this, but I had been wondering about this a bit as well. I think you are correct that Nibali feels comfortable looking after himself in group finishes, but also that he/the team have plans for the last week, and are attempting to make it possible for the team to do more for Nibali to attack during the more demanding mountain stages. An optimistic reading of this, admittedly, but it is how Nibali succeeded on the way to Risoul last year, to some extent, and is not an unrealistic tactic from my perspective. More so in dealing with Dumoulin than Quintana, though.

Which raises the question of whether this is how Nibali planned to deal with Quintana from the beginning? If so, with Movistar having a strong team and support for Quintana in the mountains, then either Nibali/Bahrain must think they can get unbelievable performances out of their team in the mountains in the last week to isolate Quintana, or they must think they can come up with tactics that will confuse and demoralize Quintana and Movistar. Not sure that is realistic, but if it is what they are trying to set up, one way or another it is likely to make for some fascinating viewing. At least I hope so.
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Re: Re:

20 May 2017 10:48

Summoned wrote:
skippo12 wrote:Might as well use my first post for a question...
All the top GC guys are having at least 4-5 helpers around them at the end of the stage to keep them at the front. Nibali had 2 today and was alone yesterday for the final.
Why is this the case? Is his team that bad or is he confident enough in his ability to stay in position without a lot of help?

I am hardly the most knowledgeable person on this, but I had been wondering about this a bit as well. I think you are correct that Nibali feels comfortable looking after himself in group finishes, but also that he/the team have plans for the last week, and are attempting to make it possible for the team to do more for Nibali to attack during the more demanding mountain stages. An optimistic reading of this, admittedly, but it is how Nibali succeeded on the way to Risoul last year, to some extent, and is not an unrealistic tactic from my perspective. More so in dealing with Dumoulin than Quintana, though.

Which raises the question of whether this is how Nibali planned to deal with Quintana from the beginning? If so, with Movistar having a strong team and support for Quintana in the mountains, then either Nibali/Bahrain must think they can get unbelievable performances out of their team in the mountains in the last week to isolate Quintana, or they must think they can come up with tactics that will confuse and demoralize Quintana and Movistar. Not sure that is realistic, but if it is what they are trying to set up, one way or another it is likely to make for some fascinating viewing. At least I hope so.


Or Baharin is a newer weaker team that couldn't afford to send any better of a team.
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Re: Re:

20 May 2017 11:58

Jspear wrote:
Summoned wrote:
skippo12 wrote:Might as well use my first post for a question...
All the top GC guys are having at least 4-5 helpers around them at the end of the stage to keep them at the front. Nibali had 2 today and was alone yesterday for the final.
Why is this the case? Is his team that bad or is he confident enough in his ability to stay in position without a lot of help?

I am hardly the most knowledgeable person on this, but I had been wondering about this a bit as well. I think you are correct that Nibali feels comfortable looking after himself in group finishes, but also that he/the team have plans for the last week, and are attempting to make it possible for the team to do more for Nibali to attack during the more demanding mountain stages. An optimistic reading of this, admittedly, but it is how Nibali succeeded on the way to Risoul last year, to some extent, and is not an unrealistic tactic from my perspective. More so in dealing with Dumoulin than Quintana, though.

Which raises the question of whether this is how Nibali planned to deal with Quintana from the beginning? If so, with Movistar having a strong team and support for Quintana in the mountains, then either Nibali/Bahrain must think they can get unbelievable performances out of their team in the mountains in the last week to isolate Quintana, or they must think they can come up with tactics that will confuse and demoralize Quintana and Movistar. Not sure that is realistic, but if it is what they are trying to set up, one way or another it is likely to make for some fascinating viewing. At least I hope so.


Or Baharin is a newer weaker team that couldn't afford to send any better of a team.


That is the more likely option, yes.
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Re:

20 May 2017 13:38

skippo12 wrote:Might as well use my first post for a question...
All the top GC guys are having at least 4-5 helpers around them at the end of the stage to keep them at the front. Nibali had 2 today and was alone yesterday for the final.
Why is this the case? Is his team that bad or is he confident enough in his ability to stay in position without a lot of help?



Don't forget Moreno was tossed for pushing a rider. He was supposed to be one of the last two left with Vince in the mountains. He will be missed sorely the final week :(.
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~~~~
Alberto Contador: "And yes, it is true that for me it's the same to finish second or 10th."

Vincezo Nibali joins Anquetil, Gimondi, Merckx, Hinault and Contador as only the 6th winner of all 3 Grand Tours! Bravo Lo Squalo!
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20 May 2017 15:09

I expected better from Nibali. It's one thing to criticize your opponents, it's another to perform at the level you're expected to be.
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20 May 2017 15:13

Well his chances are getting slimmer by the day :(. I saw him cheek puffing with 6.8km to go and knew it wasn't going to be a good finish. There is still a Long way to go, hopefully he comes into better legs and is at least able to make the podium!
Carol S.
~~~~
Alberto Contador: "And yes, it is true that for me it's the same to finish second or 10th."

Vincezo Nibali joins Anquetil, Gimondi, Merckx, Hinault and Contador as only the 6th winner of all 3 Grand Tours! Bravo Lo Squalo!
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20 May 2017 15:19

Pelizzotti came in the same time. It says a lot, cracked following Tom, not good
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Re:

20 May 2017 15:22

Rollthedice wrote:Pelizzotti came in the same time. It says a lot, cracked following Tom, not good


I know :sad: :sad:
Carol S.
~~~~
Alberto Contador: "And yes, it is true that for me it's the same to finish second or 10th."

Vincezo Nibali joins Anquetil, Gimondi, Merckx, Hinault and Contador as only the 6th winner of all 3 Grand Tours! Bravo Lo Squalo!
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20 May 2017 15:30

Big loss today, unfortunately. Chances for pink are getting slimmer by the minute... Maybe the only chance is on Tuesday, but can he and the team improve so much for such a short time? :rolleyes:
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Re: Nibali discussion thread

20 May 2017 15:31

Same problem as on Blockhaus, he wasn't that bad but tried to follow a rider who was simply stronger than him. The same happened to Pozzovivo and Yates and the same would have happened to Landa if Quintana hadn't brought him back after Dumoulin's first acceleration. Pinot was probably weaker than him today and lost hardly any time on Quintana and even gained time on Nibali.
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20 May 2017 15:32

Pellizotti and Nibali will kill it on Tuesday, all out, desperation attack now.
"This is the Tour that will determine whether I can drink espresso at the Garda lake the rest of my life"
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20 May 2017 15:37

Well, monoclimb stages do not really suit Nibali (especially the later one).
Multiple climbs stages at high altitude usually are his thing, but honestly these bonks are a very bad sign.

I won't discard his chances even now though, a mistake that many riders made in the past. :lol:
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20 May 2017 15:38

Nibali should have paced himself like Pinot did.
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20 May 2017 15:38

Once again a Dutch guy owns Nibali. But this performance was much better compared to last years.
I expect a similar performance to last year in the third week but may not be enough to win the Giro.
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